It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by llmacgregor
Wouldn't the game system be designed to *constantly* give people as many options for dying as possible? To be designed to constantly erode anything that can survive, incite conflict, separation, and violence, create detachment and depression, etc. Then we each get to look at the examples around us and choose for ourself what we're going to do.
The way you live your life, more times then not contributes to the way you will die.
The thing about life itself though, Is it isn't all conflict, separation, violence, and depression. Their is joy, love, and laughter in the mix. And the two examples of despair vs happiness would not exist without each other. Both eroding each other.
I get your design of *Constant* options for dying, and facing such hardships as mentioned above driving you to a specific death. But what about integrating a short lived joy, or happiness every so rare occasion. It could impact the choices people make in the game, You know it definitely does in real life.
Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
Cool idea suggesting games as a possible way to explore philosophical situations. Interesting idea for a game as well and I would pay to play it, although not much a gamer. I think harder video games are more necessary these days.
Originally posted by jonnywhite
Some interest thoughts.
I'm a programmer too just haven't made any games yet.
But I've thought about similar things. It's impossible not to. Really.
But be careful about thinking reality too much.
Have to experience reality a lot of times to have a clear head.
Still, there's some reality to what you say.
Originally posted by Cuervo
Excellent thread. The holy grail you speak of is closer than we may realize. Uploading a consciousness will eventually lead to what you are talking about.
My personal take on digital gaming is that it is reflective and analogous to our flesh and blood meatspace reality. If you are interested, there's a thread on it in my signature.
I hope for the sake of enthusiasts everywhere that you get back on your saddle soon and help "gamify" society a bit more quickly.
Originally posted by dudeawesome
I'm think that kind of game play sounds truly awesome. Being able to live out a fantasy world as if it were real seems too far out there atm, but so did something like cell phones a few centuries ago...
The first thing I noticed here is the similarity to a few movies I've seen--namely Inception and Total Recall. I don't understand the fixation on death in this scenario you propose, why can't leaving the game be as simple as picking up a phone (the Matrix) or disconnecting an accessory your wearing?
Also, the total immersion would be a let down to me. I would like to know that I am experiencing something completely unreal despite its duplication of reality. In the same way I would like to have lucid dreams.
I see in your above reply that you would like the game to explore things that you would truly die for. I don't think any mass marketed video game or story is going to strike that cord with the amount of people we think of with blockbuster video game target audiences today.
Also, I think the emotional toll that this 'game' would tax someone would ensure that they did not do it often, maybe not more than once!
Originally posted by BIHOTZ
I like the idea of it. Imagine that we were all hooked up as the norm. You would not have access to your body unless you get certain achievements within the game. Like all criminals are forced to stay under, while everyone else can leave. You would face criminals, real criminals in their VR prison. Like you could go to the part of the construct city where everyone that has chosen to not leave spends all day killing dying, fighting urban combat, ect.
Or you could go to the part of the construct where people go to have meetings, date, have unprotected sex, or just party.
Or you could go to the part of the construct that users are building and see freaky things like floating buildings or monsters.
I think the original matrix should be limited to the laws of physics, the other sections to have applied sciences overcome them. So you can buy anti grav boots in the anything goes section, but the central hub/ city be a normal world where everyone meets up or starts.
I would also include an editor so people can make their own cities. When one becomes popular or big enough, add it to the central one. That way you could leave a part of your world after your avatar is deleted when you die in reality.
It could be possible one day to transfer your consciousness into the simulation before you die like in Caprica.
Imagine that you could live on in a VR form as caretaker of your world. You would get visitors from reality that would keep you informed of current events. You could see images and access information from reality. You could make a construct for your family where you meet up with your relatives, some who have lost their body years , or centuries ago.
That would be cool. I can imagine that if you had enough stimulus, eternity learning in a non corporeal form would be good. You could become the master of all and teach the younger generations.
Then maybe robotic bodies could be made to transfer your consciousness so as to see a real sun set, or a real stripper.
You could re-download and hang out in a simulated version of earth's orbit with real time images being transmitted to earth from one of our satellites. Imagine, become a satellite and watch the stars from up there.
Anything is possible in an environment like that.
Originally posted by Xaphan
Originally posted by ErgoTheConfusion
One of the ones that will be available to us eventually is to immerse a person in a game where they forget they are playing a game. I don't mean virtual reality where your senses can't tell the difference... I mean you "wake up" as Guybrush Threepwood in an 8 bit 2D Monkey Island and you TRULY believe you are Guybrush, that the world as you see is real and the only one, and have to figure out how to get out.
Reading this part kind of blew my mind.
It would make perfect sense if we really were in a simulation. Imagine sitting in another dimension, and we agree to play a full lifetime here on a simulated planet to learn valuable lessons and become more 'experienced' and 'evolved'.
But there's a catch... once the simulation starts we forget everything and don't know anything other than the simulation we are in, so we believe that all this is real, as we have temporarily forgotten everything else. It's the only way that a learning experience like this could work. If we knew it was fake, we wouldn't really come out on the other side with genuine insight and experiences, because we would be saying "well it doesn't really matter, we're just virtual beings anyways". We would have to have our original awareness erased so we would take this experience seriously for the time being.
The 'game' starts from the moment of birth, and that's when the memory is wiped clean. When we die, the game ends, and the real 'you' in another dimension regains the original awareness, gets up from his/her chair and says "God damn, I need a cigarette after that one!"
And then a few hours later we move onto a new virtual 'life' (reincarnation)
[Insert obligatory Bill Hicks quote here]
This is all just speculation and rambling, but it's so interesting to think about. It makes so much sense after reading some of the posts in this thread.
Originally posted by cloudwatcher
I have to say that this is actually quite horrific and terrifying....yes I read your opening statement.
Waking up thinking and believing that you are a video game just "sounds" like there could be a whole crap load of consequences and ramifications.
Will this lead to people believing that self perpetuated death is glorifying? Will it leave children fatherless?
Death is beautiful in its own way. I know!
Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion
Interesting concept, quite reasonable in both its practical application (at some point, obviously we are not at the point of preserving and then wiping one's consciousness) and philosophical possibility of our current reality.
I do think, however, that this is not necessary:
- The only way to "win" and be allowed to stop playing is to CHOOSE to die.
- If you die but didn't CHOOSE to die, you start over from scratch.
Without retained memory, there is no reason to suppose that suicide would "win", so winning would be arbitrary and associated with behaviour that likely had nothing to do with the game itself.
Originally posted by abeverage
Being a Admin, I control all of what the "programers" see, have access to, all the connections, all the Data, and with one push of a button I can make it all go away. Heck I control the temperature of the building, the access to the doors and much, much more!
No wonder Admins of call themselves God...
Frankly if this is a Game, suicide is cheating and you will be reset. You took an easy way out instead of fullfilling your mission!
Originally posted by Sablicious
Killing oneself flies in the face of humanity ...and, for argument's sake, defies the intention of any possible 'creator' that may (or likely not) exist. There is no excuse for it and suicide demonstrates only human weakness and abject flaw. It's a sure fire indication of brain damage, in fact.
The survival mechanism is the most fundamental trait of any living thing. Ignore this and you've indeed become 'nothing'.
Originally posted by warriorsbond
reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion
I think we are like in gamer and the matrix. we are not fully in control and there is the real us someplace else sitting in a chair being cared for by caretakers.
Every once in a while we wake up. Like if we take iodine that day or vitamins and wake up in that while we sleep.
great game idea by the way.
I think you should have an option to kill the handlers of us to find the exit. then again that is me.
Originally posted by ConspiracyBuff
The target market for a ‘game’ such as this would largely be people that play MMO’s. Ironically, most of these players are unemployed, displaced workers or college students (60%). As MMO type games require a large time commitment. Casual gamers tend to stay away from these types of games. So virtual reality (VR) games if/when they ever hit the market, most likely will be out of the price range for the early adopters. As I believe what you are describing is VR. The current paradigm we operate in (work, family, social life) does not constitute enough units of satisfaction (economically speaking) for the massive investment that is undoubtedly required for such technology.
Originally posted by ArnoldNonymous
Not sure if anyone has eluded to this yet but this new platform for video games sounds A LOT like Inception (the movie). This can do a whole lot of great things but potentially can be extremely dangerous when people decide the game is more exciting than real-life.
But that is an entirely different topic.
Originally posted by earthdude
reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion
I have found that the only way to really win in any battle, illusion or reality, is to never play the game. I have not played a video game in many years. I used to stay up past sunrise playing.
Originally posted by AboveBoard
Interesting ideas! But what would happen to someone psychologically who has experienced the game??? How can they really be kept safe? If its "real" to the mind, then you could end up with a lot of PSTD or other mental/emotional issues. It gets out of the realm of playing once the mind believes something is real. I'm not trying to harsh the buzz on this idea, as it could also be extremely educational (immersion in another culture is the best way to learn the language and understand the environment), not to mention giving people with physical disabilities the opportunity to live more fully in an alternate reality where they are not disabled. On the flip side, people could use it for interrogation or to make people experience torture, or could generate really evil situations (I had a dream like that once - kill myself or the serial killer would do it for me, slowly...). In other words, I see a very double edged sword here - one that could be a great enhancement, and another that could lead to psychological ruin.
What do you think about that, OP? I'm curious - I've thought about how gaming can effect someone a lot, as I have kids and have to make decisions for them about what is healthy and what is not. Your input would be very valuable. Thank you!!!
peace,
AB
Originally posted by ErgoTheConfusion
This is going to explore some concepts which some may find offensive or disagreeable. I apologize, but I think it's a vantage point worth examining. Please note: I am not suicidal and this is not a call for help. I don't recall a point in life where I was MORE aware of how much there was I wanted to explore and experience. If one takes the time to understand what is being presented, you'll even see why "suicide" isn't really what it's about.
---------
I create video games for a living. I've recently taken a break for a variety of reasons, but one of them is my frustration that I don't think the full strength of our platform is being explored and miss the days where my skills were focused on interacting with another mind in interesting ways, not placating or "entertaining" another mind.
Like most designers, I'm always exploring the various possibilities. One of the ones that will be available to us eventually is to immerse a person in a game where they forget they are playing a game. I don't mean virtual reality where your senses can't tell the difference... I mean you "wake up" as Guybrush Threepwood in an 8 bit 2D Monkey Island and you TRULY believe you are Guybrush, that the world as you see is real and the only one, and have to figure out how to get out.
This is one of the holy grails... this is when the entertainment medium will reach a singularity of possibilities that are barely fathomable to most of us. The sort of experiences we'll be able to make you "really" have safely with no threat to yourself will be infinite. Or at least near infinite given the psychological issues.
Now where does this go? We all know the stories of heroism and despondency of human history. We've all wondered "what would I do if that had been me?"
That's exactly what this stage of "video games" will provide, and you will be able to find out what it's like to die rescuing a baby from a fire. Or to die to "save the planet". Or if you wish... to become so depressed you finally take your own life. YOU, the one "playing" the game will be safe... as safe as watching a movie about someone who dies a hero or a loser except now you will truly understand what it was like to be them and NOT know you were going to be ok.
Now imagine a game like World of Warcraft where the rules (contract) are simple:
- There are no rules inside the game except the limitations of the physical simulation.
- The only way to "win" and be allowed to stop playing is to CHOOSE to die.
- If you die but didn't CHOOSE to die, you start over from scratch.
- If you knowingly give away the secret to victory, you are killed and have to start over from scratch.
Consider what such a world would might look like and the sort of social systems that would develop as people believed their objective is to survive... but the real goal is to choose how you will die? Will you die a war hero? Happily after a long life? Alone overdosing? You'd then be left to "judge" your own performance in the game and decide if you wanted to try again, or you were satisfied and wanted to go play something less difficult and "dark", haha.
Consider how those who came to tell the truth would be treated by "those in power maintaining the game"... and how their words would be manipulated to distract from the truth?
Wouldn't the game system be designed to *constantly* give people as many options for dying as possible? To be designed to constantly erode anything that can survive, incite conflict, separation, and violence, create detachment and depression, etc. Then we each get to look at the examples around us and choose for ourself what we're going to do.
I don't think that's the point of THIS "game" we're all running around in, but there are a lot of aspects to where we find ourselves that gives me some reason to reflect on some of the less logical things our society continues to perpetuate, as well as some of the "positive" methods put out there for escaping the loop vs the "negative" methods. All exits are educational... but only those voluntarily and intelligently chosen are fully understood.
This will sound cliche... but similar to Neo and Obi-Wan when they "put down their sword" and allowed their enemy to "strike them down". But it was only worthwhile in that moment.
Personally: I think it's possible this universe's "game" is to come up with and define your own way out. The only catch is you have to believe in it absolutely regardless of what others say. That possibility is also able to explain a lot of the conflicts and information available to us.
Namaste.edit on 2012/7/10 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)