One of the hardest "video games" possible: Voluntary Death

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posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by llmacgregor


Wouldn't the game system be designed to *constantly* give people as many options for dying as possible? To be designed to constantly erode anything that can survive, incite conflict, separation, and violence, create detachment and depression, etc. Then we each get to look at the examples around us and choose for ourself what we're going to do.


The way you live your life, more times then not contributes to the way you will die.
The thing about life itself though, Is it isn't all conflict, separation, violence, and depression. Their is joy, love, and laughter in the mix. And the two examples of despair vs happiness would not exist without each other. Both eroding each other.

I get your design of *Constant* options for dying, and facing such hardships as mentioned above driving you to a specific death. But what about integrating a short lived joy, or happiness every so rare occasion. It could impact the choices people make in the game, You know it definitely does in real life.

I know exactly what you mean, and considered trying to elucidate that aspect more as well but the post was already going to get long enough.

Just like in Hunger Games (I apologize for pop culture cliche but they are effective reference tools, heh)... when the main guy says you have to give them hope, but not too much... the game as described in the OP would need to offer truth and beauty and hope and at least the sensation of progress. And the great thing is any moment that truth, beauty, and hope are reached they will be real and have been worth it because of what was required to even reach them... getting through the mandated erosion of everything eventually.




posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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Originally posted by TheSubversiveOne
Cool idea suggesting games as a possible way to explore philosophical situations. Interesting idea for a game as well and I would pay to play it, although not much a gamer. I think harder video games are more necessary these days.

I think games provide a good platform for people to learn philosophy. It lets you actually try out a variety of situations and if you add in other people you create genuine social dynamics to be explored. Reach a point where the people don't even realize they aren't actually at "war" or "recovering from a hurricane" while in the game and you get to see what they are really made of when removed from their "native" social pressures and concepts.

If the game were to take a Muslim and a Christian for example, translate their communication so they are on the same team against a common enemy and don't realize their preconceived differences... you will find out much more about how those two are compatible outside of their social boxes. It would probably reveal some frightening things to those who haven't spent much time considering the more complex effects of society.
edit on 2012/7/12 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by jonnywhite
Some interest thoughts.

I'm a programmer too just haven't made any games yet.

But I've thought about similar things. It's impossible not to. Really.

But be careful about thinking reality too much.

Have to experience reality a lot of times to have a clear head.

Still, there's some reality to what you say.

The interesting whiplash I think we'll see is that after people get over the initial rush of living every experience they can imagine, eventually the culture will shift to most people craving just "a simple single life". Yin/Yang Back/Forth.
edit on 2012/7/12 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by Cuervo
Excellent thread. The holy grail you speak of is closer than we may realize. Uploading a consciousness will eventually lead to what you are talking about.

My personal take on digital gaming is that it is reflective and analogous to our flesh and blood meatspace reality. If you are interested, there's a thread on it in my signature.

I hope for the sake of enthusiasts everywhere that you get back on your saddle soon and help "gamify" society a bit more quickly.

I've actually been trying to raise the discussion with a few industry friends on where we're going (blindly mostly) but like most things the day to day aspects of just doing the job get in the way of understanding what we're all building without realizing it (especially since so many in the industry have kids, etc.).

My current non-paying but more personal efforts are aiming at trying to give things in the gaming world a fresh nudge and plant some new seeds on how it can be used for interaction. I won't pretend that they are brilliant, but they will be honest.
edit on 2012/7/12 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by dudeawesome
I'm think that kind of game play sounds truly awesome. Being able to live out a fantasy world as if it were real seems too far out there atm, but so did something like cell phones a few centuries ago...

The first thing I noticed here is the similarity to a few movies I've seen--namely Inception and Total Recall. I don't understand the fixation on death in this scenario you propose, why can't leaving the game be as simple as picking up a phone (the Matrix) or disconnecting an accessory your wearing?

Also, the total immersion would be a let down to me. I would like to know that I am experiencing something completely unreal despite its duplication of reality. In the same way I would like to have lucid dreams.

I see in your above reply that you would like the game to explore things that you would truly die for. I don't think any mass marketed video game or story is going to strike that cord with the amount of people we think of with blockbuster video game target audiences today.

Also, I think the emotional toll that this 'game' would tax someone would ensure that they did not do it often, maybe not more than once!

I agree with what you say for how it would initially start out. However over time those who were going through the experiences will be able to out-compete those who don't (provided we remain in a competitive environment). If they don't out compete, they will at least be able to out-think because they will have such a broader foundation to work from.

It will be the equivalent to being literate. Basically if you and another person wish to do something, you'll be able to go simulate you doing it 1000 times in "10 minutes" to find out the "right" way to do it. You will be able to die 1000 times trying to fly a plane without getting hurt. Imagine being able to try the more likely correct ideas without having to spend all your time on safety? You will be able to out-engineer and out-plan anyone doing it the old way.

It goes way past games and into pure evolution of consciousness.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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Originally posted by BIHOTZ
I like the idea of it. Imagine that we were all hooked up as the norm. You would not have access to your body unless you get certain achievements within the game. Like all criminals are forced to stay under, while everyone else can leave. You would face criminals, real criminals in their VR prison. Like you could go to the part of the construct city where everyone that has chosen to not leave spends all day killing dying, fighting urban combat, ect.

Or you could go to the part of the construct where people go to have meetings, date, have unprotected sex, or just party.

Or you could go to the part of the construct that users are building and see freaky things like floating buildings or monsters.

I think the original matrix should be limited to the laws of physics, the other sections to have applied sciences overcome them. So you can buy anti grav boots in the anything goes section, but the central hub/ city be a normal world where everyone meets up or starts.

I would also include an editor so people can make their own cities. When one becomes popular or big enough, add it to the central one. That way you could leave a part of your world after your avatar is deleted when you die in reality.

It could be possible one day to transfer your consciousness into the simulation before you die like in Caprica.

Imagine that you could live on in a VR form as caretaker of your world. You would get visitors from reality that would keep you informed of current events. You could see images and access information from reality. You could make a construct for your family where you meet up with your relatives, some who have lost their body years , or centuries ago.

That would be cool. I can imagine that if you had enough stimulus, eternity learning in a non corporeal form would be good. You could become the master of all and teach the younger generations.

Then maybe robotic bodies could be made to transfer your consciousness so as to see a real sun set, or a real stripper.

You could re-download and hang out in a simulated version of earth's orbit with real time images being transmitted to earth from one of our satellites. Imagine, become a satellite and watch the stars from up there.

Anything is possible in an environment like that.

Exactly. It also can explain why some of the more esoteric philosophies constantly say "There is no right or wrong... only the learning", etc. When anything is possible and the only harm comes to the experiencer who chose to take the risk in the first place, there ceases to be anything "wrong" you can do from a certain vantage point.

Most of us would agree we've learned more from our mistakes than our successes... now imagine if we could go make the mistakes and believe they were real and thus actually gain the lesson... but then be relieved to find out we didn't actually cause any harm. Only learned the lesson.

Empowering... but also eventually boring. Thus why we'll always sway back eventually to a "simple single life" simulation as well.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by Xaphan

Originally posted by ErgoTheConfusion
One of the ones that will be available to us eventually is to immerse a person in a game where they forget they are playing a game. I don't mean virtual reality where your senses can't tell the difference... I mean you "wake up" as Guybrush Threepwood in an 8 bit 2D Monkey Island and you TRULY believe you are Guybrush, that the world as you see is real and the only one, and have to figure out how to get out.

Reading this part kind of blew my mind.


It would make perfect sense if we really were in a simulation. Imagine sitting in another dimension, and we agree to play a full lifetime here on a simulated planet to learn valuable lessons and become more 'experienced' and 'evolved'.

But there's a catch... once the simulation starts we forget everything and don't know anything other than the simulation we are in, so we believe that all this is real, as we have temporarily forgotten everything else. It's the only way that a learning experience like this could work. If we knew it was fake, we wouldn't really come out on the other side with genuine insight and experiences, because we would be saying "well it doesn't really matter, we're just virtual beings anyways". We would have to have our original awareness erased so we would take this experience seriously for the time being.

The 'game' starts from the moment of birth, and that's when the memory is wiped clean. When we die, the game ends, and the real 'you' in another dimension regains the original awareness, gets up from his/her chair and says "God damn, I need a cigarette after that one!"


And then a few hours later we move onto a new virtual 'life' (reincarnation)

[Insert obligatory Bill Hicks quote here]

This is all just speculation and rambling, but it's so interesting to think about. It makes so much sense after reading some of the posts in this thread.

You absolutely get it.

Imagine if people coordinate outside of the game to somehow store information inside the game that would give them an advantage? They would have to hide it within the rules of the game so when they came in and forgot, would have to figure it out again. But if they created a method of passing the information down from generation to generation... well then you can have secret societies who engineer the most amazing ways to "win" and hoarding all the chances for only those in their club while leaving the rest to be pawns in their games of heroism and/or power. After all... they are only giving all those pawns their own ways of "winning".

The mind does boggle, and then eventually realizes it can't ever really "know" for sure. There is always that next step of simulation layer that is possible and hidden.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by cloudwatcher
I have to say that this is actually quite horrific and terrifying....yes I read your opening statement.

Waking up thinking and believing that you are a video game just "sounds" like there could be a whole crap load of consequences and ramifications.

Will this lead to people believing that self perpetuated death is glorifying? Will it leave children fatherless?

Death is beautiful in its own way. I know!

Agreed... there are terrifying implications. At least from the standards we're all typical used to.

However from another vantage, no child is ever actually left fatherless, only the experience of it but the ability to return safely to where they "chose" to go experience losing a father, etc.

The consequences of course are the mind not handling leaving the simulation safely and being harmed by the experience. It's a double edged sword as that is also exactly what gives it the greatest opportunity for healing. Always have the positive with the negative and it comes down to the choice.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen
reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion
 


Interesting concept, quite reasonable in both its practical application (at some point, obviously we are not at the point of preserving and then wiping one's consciousness) and philosophical possibility of our current reality.

I do think, however, that this is not necessary:

- The only way to "win" and be allowed to stop playing is to CHOOSE to die.
- If you die but didn't CHOOSE to die, you start over from scratch.


Without retained memory, there is no reason to suppose that suicide would "win", so winning would be arbitrary and associated with behaviour that likely had nothing to do with the game itself.

Agreed that those rules aren't necessary. However by placing those rules there, it's what converts it from a "fun sandbox to explore" into a genuinely fascinating challenge. Remember it's not about "suicide", it's about choosing to die. You don't need to *know* that's the victory challenge, you only need to make that choice when it comes.

Basically before you enter the game you know that you will be stuck looping the same pattern over and over until you finally find something worth dying for (positive or negative, either are options). So you will setup your "character" and the environment you will be in to try to maximize your chances... or minimize if you want a real challenge. Then once you are in, depending on how you've set it up you'll be faced with situations that will slowly build up a bias in you until eventually you are forced to act.

Or any other number of ways. It's the "choose to die" aspect that makes it a genuine "game" but also creates an interesting mirror for much of the duality we have in human history between "survive" and idealized "die for something beautiful" type concepts. It's what gives it the potency for beauty and horror without the need to actually cause another person harm.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by abeverage
Being a Admin, I control all of what the "programers" see, have access to, all the connections, all the Data, and with one push of a button I can make it all go away. Heck I control the temperature of the building, the access to the doors and much, much more!

No wonder Admins of call themselves God...

Frankly if this is a Game, suicide is cheating and you will be reset. You took an easy way out instead of fullfilling your mission!

I agree with you on one hand, but I also think it's a little limited in its perspective.

I will probably never commit suicide. However I can absolutely say I am fascinated by what it would be like. I can see myself wanting to create a simulation where I would just bombard myself with failure. No matter what I do, it will fail. No matter what kind gesture I make, it will backfire. Just to see how much I take before I finally give in, and what goes through my head as I reach that point. IF I could even reach that point.

That would be my entire mission, and every attempt by someone else to keep me alive or make me happy would in fact be increasing and extending my suffering.

Is a person who has never even tasted alcohol going to have any credibility giving advice to a drug addict? Not really. Who is qualified to actually discuss the horrors of depression that reaches the level of suicide? Someone who has a good job and stable family and good parents? Or someone who has been there themselves?

Not all missions have to have a happy ending when the true objective is understanding. God/Tao/Infinity/The Universe knows better than to always succeed.

Namaste.
edit on 2012/7/12 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by Sablicious
Killing oneself flies in the face of humanity ...and, for argument's sake, defies the intention of any possible 'creator' that may (or likely not) exist. There is no excuse for it and suicide demonstrates only human weakness and abject flaw. It's a sure fire indication of brain damage, in fact.

The survival mechanism is the most fundamental trait of any living thing. Ignore this and you've indeed become 'nothing'.

Please note that the purpose of the game design above isn't necessarily or even largely about suicide.

Suicide would be a non-judgmental option of experience, but the real objective is simply to choose to die. That might be peacefully at a ripe old age on a bed surrounded by family and simply accepting the life you had, loving the people you know, and drifting away.

It could be being the last out of the house when it is on fire and your family is saved. It could be anything... the only point is to have chosen it. You would then be able to examine the choice afterwards.

You are fooling yourself if you believe it's impossible for circumstances to ever get so difficult that you wouldn't take your own life. Any being I would put at a "godlike" level is one who would be unafraid to experience suicide so it could understand it when it happens to those who are "weaker" and be better able to interact genuinely with them.

Namaste.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 03:01 PM
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Originally posted by warriorsbond
reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion
 


I think we are like in gamer and the matrix. we are not fully in control and there is the real us someplace else sitting in a chair being cared for by caretakers.
Every once in a while we wake up. Like if we take iodine that day or vitamins and wake up in that while we sleep.

great game idea by the way.

I think you should have an option to kill the handlers of us to find the exit. then again that is me.

That's a good secret ending... I like it.


I would also add in the ultra-hard ending where the secret handlers are convinced to leave without any bloodshed!
edit on 2012/7/12 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by ConspiracyBuff
The target market for a ‘game’ such as this would largely be people that play MMO’s. Ironically, most of these players are unemployed, displaced workers or college students (60%). As MMO type games require a large time commitment. Casual gamers tend to stay away from these types of games. So virtual reality (VR) games if/when they ever hit the market, most likely will be out of the price range for the early adopters. As I believe what you are describing is VR. The current paradigm we operate in (work, family, social life) does not constitute enough units of satisfaction (economically speaking) for the massive investment that is undoubtedly required for such technology.

It would start as games, but would eventually just be how people can learn complex issues in short periods. Thus it would eventually become a casual thing where rather than just go read a recipe you go actually make it a dozen times before you make it for "real".

Toys are how the universe opens us up to new possibilities by the time the kids are adults.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by ArnoldNonymous
Not sure if anyone has eluded to this yet but this new platform for video games sounds A LOT like Inception (the movie). This can do a whole lot of great things but potentially can be extremely dangerous when people decide the game is more exciting than real-life.

But that is an entirely different topic.

Yup... though it's not quite as different as you think. Part of what I was eluding to is the possibility that a lot of the control mechanisms we see could be explained by viewing our current system through this lens.

Basically: Imagine a small group of people who love playing the game, but only like it if they have tons of people out "farming gold" for them. Those people wouldn't do it normally, but if they can be convinced that the real purpose of the game is to make gold, not find something worth dying for, they will become trapped perpetually and the ones who have figured it out will be able to keep jumping in and out living high off the backs of all those who are still trying to figure it out.

Those people would have little moral reason NOT to do so, because everyone CHOSE to go into the game, and the game rules expressly allow it to happen.

Of course like any game world... a clean slate is often a valuable thing to revive enthusiasm again.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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Originally posted by earthdude
reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion
 

I have found that the only way to really win in any battle, illusion or reality, is to never play the game. I have not played a video game in many years. I used to stay up past sunrise playing.

Agreed... though if we never play the game... we never learn about ourselves.



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 03:10 PM
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Originally posted by AboveBoard
Interesting ideas! But what would happen to someone psychologically who has experienced the game??? How can they really be kept safe? If its "real" to the mind, then you could end up with a lot of PSTD or other mental/emotional issues. It gets out of the realm of playing once the mind believes something is real. I'm not trying to harsh the buzz on this idea, as it could also be extremely educational (immersion in another culture is the best way to learn the language and understand the environment), not to mention giving people with physical disabilities the opportunity to live more fully in an alternate reality where they are not disabled. On the flip side, people could use it for interrogation or to make people experience torture, or could generate really evil situations (I had a dream like that once - kill myself or the serial killer would do it for me, slowly...). In other words, I see a very double edged sword here - one that could be a great enhancement, and another that could lead to psychological ruin.

What do you think about that, OP? I'm curious - I've thought about how gaming can effect someone a lot, as I have kids and have to make decisions for them about what is healthy and what is not. Your input would be very valuable. Thank you!!!

peace,
AB

I think initially there would be a lot of psychological trauma.

But not because what is happening is negative... but because these things would start destroying the illusions we hold of ourselves. People would find they are NOT as brave as they think they are (or are MORE brave than they think they are). They would find that without the constraints or support of their community they would actually be much different people.

Think of the liberating aspect of the internet, but also the trauma when people find out that others (or themselves) aren't like they were conditioned to believe.

The long term effect will be a significantly greater understanding of others by those who choose to go into them, and thus a much wiser view in general. These people will eventually replace those who refuse to learn from them as the leaders, just like literacy is a required aspect of being a leader now. This would be a new form of literacy... the ability to take any situation no matter how challenging, be willing to put yourself through it to understand it, and then sharing your understanding with others while making "real world" decisions.

Who will better understand how to deal with a rape than someone who has been both a rapist and a rape victim?
edit on 2012/7/12 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion
 

"Not all missions have to have a happy ending when the true objective is understanding." - ErgoTheConfusion.

28th quote I just added to one of my backup folders.

Gawd, it's a nice quote. Worthy of memorial. Well, that's what I believe atm.

I can relate to a lot of what you say. I program too. Consider some of the same issues.

All considered, I think that no matter what we do with Virtual Reality and VRSims it has to be beneficial to us. Even play is beneficial or it probably wouldn't exist either. Murder is just the wrong-side of the same coin that killing in self-defense is on. So it might be that VR and VRSims help us and hurt us just like killing. The problem is that we do not know yet how it all will be beneficial. We have to make mistakes along the way to find out. It's a long road to the future. This is evolution.

Insofar as games are concerned, I'll admit that I sometimes play MMORPGs, rpgs or strategy games. I like dungeon crawls. I like harsh abundant rules. But I get it that they're mostly a waste of time if played excessively. Play is really meant for spare time, not for every time. Just like anything else in life, pretty much everything is moderated. But anyway, I like games where I can build things too. My favorite MMORPSandbox is Xyson. I haven't played it yet, but it's definitely on my favorites list.

Btw, some games "simplify" and become more like drugs. They cut away the meat and substance and what's left is a slot machine or (c) IWIN. So instead of focusing on real history or real trivia, they just invent stuff. And instead of focusing on teaching or philosophy or something more constructive, they just waste time on random whimsical garbage that has probably zero value outside the game.

We as a species have to be responsible with these things. As a programmer, I almost feel it's my duty to someday use these skills in a more positive fashion that builds on the past. I want us to find a way to use VR and VRSims in positive ways, not just for entertainment or to hook users in some sinister plan to empty their wallets. I think games that specialize in education are a possible route.

Of course, VR has so many uses and is so widespread it's not worth mentioning. TV and phones and radio and so many other things are examples of VR. VR, broadly and as I understand it, is just reality removed from its source. VRSims are making headway in all sorts of things. Even models used in cliimate change are an example of VRSims and models used in various science disciplines are commonplace. But you really got to be a smart chap to do that. I read the other day in Discover magazine about a researcher that used a model to predict there was once a planet out past Saturn that got thrown out of our solar system during its development and is now a rogue planet out somewhere off in the distance. But what about VRSims that attempt to recreate a human's life on this planet? I doubt we'll ever make a detailed simulation of that. But I do know that simulations are used by those who research emergencies and the responses of people to them. For example, I saw in the newspaper a year or two ago about a consultant who gave advice on how people might react in a given community during an earthquake. The consultant actually used a model that simulates people and their behaviors and attempts to predict what they'll do in an earthquake. Interesting, eh? I wonder if it's dependable? I could go on and on about simulations of that sort.
edit on 12-7-2012 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by ErgoTheConfusion
 


Ok, well I am a gamer as well. I have always treated my Avatar as an extension of myself but with more risk, admittedly I attempted a few digital deaths with some Sims to see what would happen, but oddly I never felt right if it was on purpose, and sometimes felt loss when they died… But some of the most fun parts of the game is my realization it is just a game. If my Avatar dies, fails, or I give up, I can always come back and try again.

In reality or the matrix or whatever you want to call life, I do not see or know or maybe even have this option. Personally I have lived a somewhat hard life with many excruciating hardships, trials, and failing health, I can honestly say contemplated suicide on numerous occasions.

Funny thing is I am glad I never did for several reason, like I want to see what happens next (even though each day for years has seemed monotonously the same). Another is it is the most selfish thing you can do, oh yes it feels like it might be liberating but what of those left behind? Not everyone would see it being a “reset” of the game if you will. Finally even if you have no one, murder, be it your own or another’s is a absolute horror for someone left to clean up, discover, dispose of, and get over the depressiveness of (working in a Hospital assured me of this)!

Perhaps if people identified more with a Sim and had more compassion they would treat themselves and others with more respect too...
edit on 12-7-2012 by abeverage because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 03:53 PM
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Originally posted by ErgoTheConfusion
This is going to explore some concepts which some may find offensive or disagreeable. I apologize, but I think it's a vantage point worth examining. Please note: I am not suicidal and this is not a call for help. I don't recall a point in life where I was MORE aware of how much there was I wanted to explore and experience. If one takes the time to understand what is being presented, you'll even see why "suicide" isn't really what it's about.

---------

I create video games for a living. I've recently taken a break for a variety of reasons, but one of them is my frustration that I don't think the full strength of our platform is being explored and miss the days where my skills were focused on interacting with another mind in interesting ways, not placating or "entertaining" another mind.

Like most designers, I'm always exploring the various possibilities. One of the ones that will be available to us eventually is to immerse a person in a game where they forget they are playing a game. I don't mean virtual reality where your senses can't tell the difference... I mean you "wake up" as Guybrush Threepwood in an 8 bit 2D Monkey Island and you TRULY believe you are Guybrush, that the world as you see is real and the only one, and have to figure out how to get out.

This is one of the holy grails... this is when the entertainment medium will reach a singularity of possibilities that are barely fathomable to most of us. The sort of experiences we'll be able to make you "really" have safely with no threat to yourself will be infinite. Or at least near infinite given the psychological issues.

Now where does this go? We all know the stories of heroism and despondency of human history. We've all wondered "what would I do if that had been me?"

That's exactly what this stage of "video games" will provide, and you will be able to find out what it's like to die rescuing a baby from a fire. Or to die to "save the planet". Or if you wish... to become so depressed you finally take your own life. YOU, the one "playing" the game will be safe... as safe as watching a movie about someone who dies a hero or a loser except now you will truly understand what it was like to be them and NOT know you were going to be ok.

Now imagine a game like World of Warcraft where the rules (contract) are simple:
- There are no rules inside the game except the limitations of the physical simulation.
- The only way to "win" and be allowed to stop playing is to CHOOSE to die.
- If you die but didn't CHOOSE to die, you start over from scratch.
- If you knowingly give away the secret to victory, you are killed and have to start over from scratch.

Consider what such a world would might look like and the sort of social systems that would develop as people believed their objective is to survive... but the real goal is to choose how you will die? Will you die a war hero? Happily after a long life? Alone overdosing? You'd then be left to "judge" your own performance in the game and decide if you wanted to try again, or you were satisfied and wanted to go play something less difficult and "dark", haha.

Consider how those who came to tell the truth would be treated by "those in power maintaining the game"... and how their words would be manipulated to distract from the truth?

Wouldn't the game system be designed to *constantly* give people as many options for dying as possible? To be designed to constantly erode anything that can survive, incite conflict, separation, and violence, create detachment and depression, etc. Then we each get to look at the examples around us and choose for ourself what we're going to do.

I don't think that's the point of THIS "game" we're all running around in, but there are a lot of aspects to where we find ourselves that gives me some reason to reflect on some of the less logical things our society continues to perpetuate, as well as some of the "positive" methods put out there for escaping the loop vs the "negative" methods. All exits are educational... but only those voluntarily and intelligently chosen are fully understood.

This will sound cliche... but similar to Neo and Obi-Wan when they "put down their sword" and allowed their enemy to "strike them down". But it was only worthwhile in that moment.

Personally: I think it's possible this universe's "game" is to come up with and define your own way out. The only catch is you have to believe in it absolutely regardless of what others say. That possibility is also able to explain a lot of the conflicts and information available to us.

Namaste.
edit on 2012/7/10 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)


Who is Ron Gilbert?

I would LOVE to wake up as Guybrush. He's the mightiest pirate of all the seven seas don't cha know?

All joking aside, people would get stuck inside the video game. It takes a hero to be a hero, so, those that wouldn't become on in real life won't in this virtual life they believe to be real, and as a consequence would die in reality of apathy and starvation/dehydration.

It would also radically change the mind of the person once he awakes... They might become delusional, thinking that real is not real and what is fake is real.

It would be like inception.
edit on 12-7-2012 by Laokin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2012 @ 04:53 PM
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What a great thread! I've spent many a beer with friends talking about the next level in gaming simulation. If you take it as a given that in 5 years it will be possible to join an immersive world created by the brightest gaming developer minds, and then in 10 years a fully programmable life away from reality and then 15 years a networked reality of games within games (think Eve but on Earth) then who's to say that artificial intelligence could not create a virtual world indistinguishable from real life. You may come to the realisation that everything around you now could be a simulation in an iterative ongoing and evolving game where we’re not only the pixels but pixels’ within pixels’ within pixels ….. more beer





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