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Originally posted by Tormund
can you show me where we have ever in situ measured something with an infinite value?
and here
Yes, all of the things I said. E.g., the conductivity of a superconductor is measured to be equal to infinity.
So at best, it is finite infinity, aka absurdity. Science misuses the term INFINITE big time.
“No it is not. It is utterly incorrect thinking. What you are doing here is entering in absurd philosophical domain that should be kept away from science.”
Originally posted by Vitruvian
Originally posted by Tormund
can you show me where we have ever in situ measured something with an infinite value?
As a confirmed ‘Aristotelian’ I have a little more trouble with this quote of yours posted earlier.
“No it is not. It is utterly incorrect thinking. What you are doing here is entering in absurd philosophical domain that should be kept away from science.”
Mainly because I see the separation of philosophy from science since the days of the Royal Academy to have been the cause of most of the scientific absurdity and spiritual malaise so prevalent in the world today. If anything, philosophy and science actually be should actually be RE-“joined at the hip” as in days gone by.
edit on 9-7-2012 by Vitruvian because: spell
Originally posted by Vitruvian
Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by Virtruvian
Perhaps, by reduction, we could approach an understanding of Pi raised to the power of Pi.
Pi equals a number slightly bigger than three. More accurately, approximately 3.1415926535897932384626433832795
Therefore Pi ^ Pi = 36.462159607207911770990826022692
Not sure what you are getting at, doesn't equal infinity.edit on 8/7/2012 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)
I hope I am not wandering off topic in my response:
I actually wasn't "getting at" anything other than some input here with respect to the two equations that I had receved at the conclusion of a spiritual experience - i.e., a vision. No motive really.
I am having a little difficulty understanding how it is that you arrived at – Pi ^ Pi = 36.46215 from 3.14159. Please explain – Thank you.
Pi to the power of itself is infinite to the degree determined by the exponent (Pi): meaning – for me at least – that Pi to Pi is INFINITELY INFINITE, and perhaps that’s what the symbols that were presented to me in the vision were intended to represent.
We know that Pi is a transcendental number – and as such in an extension of the Lindeman Weierstrasse theorem. We also are aware of the fact that a transcendental number is a special kind of irrational number and that there are abundant proofs that all irrational numbers have infinite, non-recurring decimal representations.
This irrational number and its digits never repeat. In this sense (and in some others under discussion here) it is somewhat pathological and literally “drives people crazy” which allows it to qualify as a point of discussion in this thread.
The definition of Pi is remarkably simple. It is the ratio between the circumference and diameter of a circle. To a few decimal places its value is 3.14159265. The numerical value of Pi is essentially infinite, in that no repeating pattern occurs or truncates at some point. In fact, computers are known to have calculated Pi to trillions of decimal places – with still no pattern in sight.
Originally posted by Vitruvian
Briefly speaking, nothing can be said to be infinite, since in order for something to ‘be,’ it must bear the capacity of definition and of measurability. If not then the object would exist in a perpetual state of creation and couldn't be said to ‘be’ anything at all – at least not yet.
Originally posted by Tormund
Originally posted by Vitruvian
Briefly speaking, nothing can be said to be infinite, since in order for something to ‘be,’ it must bear the capacity of definition and of measurability. If not then the object would exist in a perpetual state of creation and couldn't be said to ‘be’ anything at all – at least not yet.
I would disagree with you on this one. Nothing you see around you in the Universe can have a finite definition nor measurement. The only "material" things that can be said to be finite are the ones created in our minds. Just think about it. Whatever you choose to measure you can always be more precise every single time you try to do it again, to infinity. And you can always find a better definition than the one you already have. Matter is constantly changing, of course, NOTHING is in state of BEING, EVERYTHING IS BECOMING. This is the ultimate truth of existence. Just look around you, everything is changing with time. Every scientist should bear this in mind all the time.
Originally posted by ZeuZZ
I'll make a declarative statement...infinity is a truth. And qualify it with the simple notion that
you can always add one to the sum, or that you can always divide a sum by one half. That is
proof of a mathematical infinity....but I could be wrong
Just to bite at this, infinity is not a truth, more a concept used in mathematical theory, and maths can never give you truth as stated above by Godels incompleteness theorem. In the real world of science it bears absolutely no relation to anything the scientific method has ever discovered, or likely ever will. We have never found a ruler of infinite length, a star of infinite mass, a singularity of infinite density, or for that matter, science has never even discovered a singularity. Science inferes that such things may exist as if they do this theory will work out very easily; but thats more showing a failing in our current understating of the phenomenon and theory, than revealing some sort of deeper truth about what we have merely inferred has to exist in the first place.
The reason being is that we invented a singularity. Its a point on a piece of paper. It has no size, no properties, it just has locality. In relation to infinity and maths we will never find an infinite number but there are certain advanced ways that the concept of an infinite number can be used to produce logical conclusions (thought some dispute this )
This might scramble your brain Sorry.
Infinity plus one is infinity.
Half of infinity is infi in terms of letters. But half of an infinite number is still infinite.
Want to see you brain explode? :p
Watch this, its supoosed to be a simpler explnation on the nature of infinity for people that find it easier to learn maths by pictures and real world object exmaples. Starts at 13:30.
Be be honest, it confused the # out of me half the time too for a long while.edit on 7-7-2012 by ZeuZZ because: (no reason given)
Space-Time Crystals Form In Ion Trap Space-time crystals are being designed for computers by cooling an ion ring to its ground state of lowest quantum energy, which is possible in the near future, says Xiang Zhang in Newscientist that a computer could outlive the universe, and in Arxiv paper "Space-Time Crystals of Trapped Ions". Electrons continously rotate without resistance friction-free in a superconductive ring near absolute zero serving as a time crystal if electrons could be made to flow separately rather than in a continous stream, ensuring a fractal repeating pattern. An ion trap holds charged particles in place using an electric field that causes the ions to form a ring-shaped crystal. Extremely cold ions repel each other by Coulomb repulsion, and applying a weak static magnetic field causes the ions to rotate forever, even when the electric and magnetic field stops. The space-time crystal they say could outlive the universe, if a cold death entirely depleted the universe of energy. Longo has shown that the universe began or was born spinning on a rotation axis. Galaxies model as superconductors of electricity by not using fake black hole gravity galaxy cores. Hydrogen as H6 is a superconductor of friction-free electricity that mimics the best known electrical conductors: carbon nanotubes as graphene, and silicon as silicene. H6 in an ion trap could spin electrons for a space-time crystal. These are three of the most common atoms in the universe having different transitional forms and exotic superstates by electromagnetic phenomena, providing proof of an EM universe, with ideas far surpassing believed gravitational fiction of the big-bang 14.3 billion years ago. Time crystals refute the age of the universe, and the big-bang theory. Our solar system bubble may be in a ground state, and supernovas display excited states or quantum jumps like a giant fractal atom that's becoming ionized and releasing particles and magnetic energy.
Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
So the above new blogspot has the hypertext links here
Metamaterial Black Holes Plasmons Galaxies Holograms Cosmic Filaments
Nanoscale Universe plasma cosmology lattice superstates graphenes metamaterials self-assemble align attach filaments for cosmic phenomena like protostars, galaxies, black holes. Dusty plasma filaments connect galaxies into galaxy clusters, superclusters, hyperclusters...forming the fractal cosmic web filamentary structure. Three dimensional intersecting cosmic cellular filaments organize em fields plasmons carbon nanotubes ribosomes neurons quasicrystals quantum dots HOLOGRAMS.
Originally posted by fulllotusqigong
Space-time crystals are being designed for computers by cooling an ion ring to its ground state of lowest quantum energy, which is possible in the near future, says Xiang Zhang
Originally posted by ZeuZZ
I'll make a declarative statement...infinity is a truth. And qualify it with the simple notion that
you can always add one to the sum, or that you can always divide a sum by one half. That is
proof of a mathematical infinity....but I could be wrong
Just to bite at this, infinity is not a truth, more a concept used in mathematical theory, and maths can never give you truth as stated above by Godels incompleteness theorem. In the real world of science it bears absolutely no relation to anything the scientific method has ever discovered, or likely ever will. We have never found a ruler of infinite length, a star of infinite mass, a singularity of infinite density, or for that matter, science has never even discovered a singularity. Science inferes that such things may exist as if they do this theory will work out very easily; but thats more showing a failing in our current understating of the phenomenon and theory, than revealing some sort of deeper truth about what we have merely inferred has to exist in the first place.
The reason being is that we invented a singularity. Its a point on a piece of paper. It has no size, no properties, it just has locality. In relation to infinity and maths we will never find an infinite number but there are certain advanced ways that the concept of an infinite number can be used to produce logical conclusions (thought some dispute this )
This might scramble your brain Sorry.
Infinity plus one is infinity.
Half of infinity is infi in terms of letters. But half of an infinite number is still infinite.
Want to see you brain explode? :p
Watch this, its supoosed to be a simpler explnation on the nature of infinity for people that find it easier to learn maths by pictures and real world object exmaples. Starts at 13:30.
Be be honest, it confused the # out of me half the time too for a long while.edit on 7-7-2012 by ZeuZZ because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by Vitruvian
Originally posted by Tormund
Originally posted by Vitruvian
"Heraclitus and Parmenides were standing in the same river," *** and I'm sure there are some (several in fact) here who would appreciate the gist of that remark, not to mention the hidden contradictions that it conveys: almost as though it were an oxymoron. I will dig out my notes on that subject and make a post on it here soon enough.
Tormund........quote "And how about both of them being right?"
Originally posted by Vitruvian
Let me begin by asking a few simple questions: How many place values for pi?
Answer - an infinite number of digits after the decimal point -- Pi does not have a finite value.
PI cannot be expressed exactly as any fraction including as a fraction of powers of 10.
Practically speaking though, this is a meaningless concept. Attributing infinity to a number is to render it incomplete, or under construction. It makes it unknowable since its value can never be established.
Actually, infinity is an imaginary concept created by the ingenuity of the human mind. We can't even ‘actually’ imagine it