Why Europe's Laws On Vacations Are Better Than Your Wildest Dreams (and How Badly Americans Get Scr

No need. We can have BOTH! But we have to stop living like victims and sheep. We can have ultimate liberty, and ultimate comfort at the same time, but we can't have all of that and instant gratification, all at the same time. We have to learn to live within our means and conserve a little.

Bravo ! Well Said ! More people need to hear those EXACT SAME WORDS as stated. I've said that for years, but it tends to fall upon DEAF EARS.

Originally posted by truthinfact
It is true what they say, America is the hardest working country in the world. We are all sons ands daughters of pioneers and crazy asses who came over here on boats.

We work hard.


also worth noting, the entire european economy ist kaput. maybe its from all that "vacationing"

It was predictable that someone would come up with the 'well, we work harder' thing. It's one of those Fox News type zingers. Absolutely untrue in every sense of the word. Americans work LONGER, that's all.

Europeans don't work any less hard. They have more time to spend with their families. In the US there's often both parents working all the time and sending their kids off to have someone else raise them (day care, school, after care, camp). Europeans use their leisure time to actually vacation and decompress. In the US, people use their few days of vacation to catch up with the stuff they couldn't do because they were working.

Vacations also help local economies through tourism. Go to any US tourist town, and it's full of non-Americans enjoying their vacations and seeing the world. The locals are not bolstering the economy. They have neither the time nor the money.

In the US we have high insurance premiums to pay for, no leisure time, and little time to spend on exotic trips. We work all the time, and rarely get to enjoy some time to properly recharge our batteries. Instead we buy stuff and keep it in our homes while we work.

The reason Americans work more is because the labor laws allow the employers to get away with providing the minimum time off to employees. That's all. Not harder. Longer.

Go ahead and believe that you are working harder than any European if that makes you feel superior.
In the meantime, they'll be working just as hard, but getting a few more days to kick back with a beer and enjoy the fruits of their labor, and spend time with their kids.

For the record, I'm British living in the US. I've experienced both sides of this. I've even worked for a European company in the States and enjoyed European vacation time while living here (best of both worlds). I worked hard in all situations.
Have you worked in Europe? If so, did you work less hard?

reply to post by truthinfact

also worth noting, the entire european economy ist kaput. maybe its from all that "vacationing"

Many European countries are in a far better state than the US economy.. If you want to live in a country that you work all the time.. So be it. I do not...

Its modern day slavery and you support it...

reply to post by Asktheanimals


Part of the issue is because the U.S. has moved from authentic Capitalism to Corporatism - which is always fascistic and demands more and more for less and less.

Why should someone pay you to do nothing?

And no I am not an employer, I am an employee and get holidays plus 1 week paid leave per year - I wouldn't complain if I got no paid leave, I would only complain if I wasn't allowed to take at least 1 month leave of absence per year, which I do and pay for myself (less the one week that is paid for).

Okay: 1) In EU the law says you get 40 days of payd vacation + plus + free legal hollydays and free weekends. So those 40 days are counted apart from legal holydays and weekends.
When you quit/get fired , doesnt matter which, you get payed your days of vacation that you haven't yet spend, corresponding for the work period in the ongoing fiscal year or something like that.
So if last year you took your 40 days, and this year you're only half way in the year and have only spent 5 vacation days, but worked half of the year, you're entitled to half of years vacation - the 5 days you took already= 15 days..which you get payd in money.

2) In Europe on average the minimum legal pay, where it is spcified by the law cause some conuntries dont have it in law, is around 900-1100 euros(1100-1300 $).
NOw my question is how do some of you americans seem to never manage to life a decend life and are constanly winging about your small 20.000-50.000$ a year salary ...or some people who work like workaholics , no free weekends, and make 6 figures, and have no time to spend with the kids and stuff...and then after making 6 figures, they complain how poor they are and how life sucks.

What ?? a minimum pay of 1000 euros, like say some tipe of low unskilled job, would be 12-13k euros a year. Now from what i've read a 20.000 $ pay a year would be worst that hell...SO how come people still dont complain in Europe, or how com people do in US ?

Originally posted by ParAvion
Why should someone pay you to do nothing?

And no I am not an employer, I am an employee and get holidays plus 1 week paid leave per year - I wouldn't complain if I got no paid leave, I would only complain if I wasn't allowed to take at least 1 month leave of absence per year, which I do and pay for myself (less the one week that is paid for).

You are right. How dare they pay you while on leave ? I suggest you take that money and donate it to me.

In Belgium you get minimum 20 days holidays + 6 days "legal holidays". While taking your holidays you get paid but you ALSO receiv each year an holliday allowance (roughly one month pay) and ovr the top , most of us receive a 13th month pay (but muhc more taxed).

Counterside is Belgium is on of the most taxed country in the world.

Lets face it. If Americans got the same vacation schedule as Europe, American companies would have to relinquish some of their RECORD profits. We can't be having that. How are the rich suppose to get richer if we start treating the lower rungs of employees like human beings?

I consider myself lucky, where I work I get 48hrs paid sick leave, 40 hrs paid personal leave, all American and Hawaiian holidays off with pay as well as a little over 2 months off with pay in the summer. It is by far the most paid time off I've ever had at a job. It's not the highest paying job I've had but all the time off makes it worth it to me. Hopefully I get to stay there until I retire, sure I won't have loads of money saved up but will have gotten to enjoy life more with my family. I wish everyone here would get to enjoy these benifits!

reply to post by Asktheanimals


I get 37 day paid leave which is a combination of work leave and statutory leave. Also I use all of it in traveling, redecorating my house every couple of years, gardening and a few years ago getting a part time post graduate degree.

Basically, the fair treatment we get in Europe allows us to have happy and enriched lives. I know that living in the UK we have to be on constant guard against big business' attempts to destroy our hard won rights. If they succeed with a reduction on our leave entitlements it will mean a loss of a job for someone and more profits for another.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by Asktheanimals

 

oh but that's socialism and isn't American, so no way you guys can have that...

Ah that's a loaded statement. Yes, Europe's social programs in some places are amazing, but are you willing to pay the extra tax to pay for it?

I sure am, most people aren't.

~Tenth

52% of the discretionary budget was spent on the military in 2011. medicare,mediacaid, food stamps, and all the other "social securities" and everything else was funded on 48% of the annual budget.
Your taxes could pay for so much more. if it wasn't being spent protecting corporate interests with military hardware.

OP, you claim your wife only gets 1 week paid vacation time?

She must be part time, I would think. She took time off to be a care aide? Wouldn't she be able to claim unemployment benefits during that time instead of using her vacation, especially if there was no one else to care for her father during that time and it was deemed that he needed this care by a healthcare professional.

I think there's more to this story than you're telling us.

Newsflash

GO LIVE THERE

sorry but I have absolutely no desire to see an even greater number of people shouting "Im on mah break" - Europe doesn't have the problems nor the ambitions nor the status of the US so if you think it's better there see above.

It's not just America that is having problems with part time workers, here in Australia a growing number of people in the IT field are finding themselves in casual contracts, which means no paid sick leave, no paid holidays, no paid maternity/paternity leave, no paid compassionate leave and zero job security. I'm earning just enough to cover my expenses with maybe $200 left over at the end of the month so sick leave or going away for holidays is just a pipe dream..might be able to squeeze in a weeks holidays around this time next year if nothing chews into my savings, but that's about it. I'm also working 10hrs+/day despite being paid for 7.5 because if I don't meet my deadlines, there's a 50% chance I'll be out of a job (have already seen it happen to one web developer here).

I have seen the odd murmur of talks about reforming the casual worker laws, but they never turn into anything substantiatial. Just gotta accept the situation for what it is and keep looking for a fulltime position

Having now lived and worked in both the US and Europe, pretty much equal times in both, I can say that there is no way I would go back to working the US. Screw that!

And vacations have nothing to do with Europe's economic problems. The US has more to do with it. Remember, you guys started it and you're in no better condition than we are over here. However, I live in a AAA country so...well, we were pretty much socialist until Nokia brought US style greed and moral poverty here.

But, in my last job I had paid vacations (six weeks over of winter holiday and four weeks in summer), all the sick leave I needed (with a doctor's note if it exceeded three days), time off when the kids were sick (paid), plus local holidays paid. Sunday pay is double-paid and Saturday 150%. Then we have overtime: the first two hours are 150% the hourly wage and double thereafter.

I won't tell you what my husband's airline pay is like. I don't want to see you guys blow a gasket. lol

I have three children and I had three years off work for each while collecting 60% of my pay.

Yeah, let me go back to slave labor in the US. Not.

I am one of those Americans who like to travel and every time I come back from europe, I am extremely pissed off about our working conditions here in the US. The last time I visited the Netherlands, I had a conversation with a native about my vacation. When I told him I only had 1 week to be in Europe, he replied, "Oh yes, I forgot about how your American companies treat their workers. They treat you like dogs in the U.S." I then asked him how many weeks did he get for vacation and he replied "6 weeks and that is not uncommon here in Europe."

The US the propaganda of working hard for your company goes back almost 100 years. A good portion of our society was raised to believe this is gospel and live their entire life completely lacking of spiritual development and culture (see the republicans posting on this board for proof).

The fact of the matter is that companies post-economic meltdown are taking full advantage of their workers. With no unions in most companies and a lack of jobs, company managers are telling their employee to feel "lucky to have a job." They like to hang this over their employees, pay them crap, and work them 60+ hours a week. In the meanwhile, benefits are being taken away all to improve the "bottom line."

I work in middle management and hear about what is discussed in our meetings. I hate to say this about my peers, but I actually consider many of them mentally ill. It's their lust for power and getting an edge at all costs that is truly sickening. Yet, the protections for workers are all but gone so they take full advantage of the labor force squeezing every penny out of them. My company is literally a few steps away from a Chinese sweat shop here in the US.

It's happening here folks. All of this is being done under the illusion that a "free market" place is best for the US. The corporate culture is a neo-con wet dream. Little do these corporatists realize, they are turning the US into a 3rd world country.

At the rate we are going, most people in the US will be lucky to even have ANY benefits or vacations. Seriously, thank god Obamacare passed because in 10 years time, at the rate we were going, most people will not have healthcare in the US.

It's all about greed here in the US and that is why we will never see most people ever having more than 1-2 weeks of vacation in a year. The way most management thinks here in the US is that you are totally replaceable and I can find someone else to work your position at a lower wage.

All you Americans that bash the labour unions, should remember that we have these days free because of unions.

I don't understand how some Americans are trying to bash the European rules on paid vacation time, having that free time is as beneficial to the company as it is the the employee, the mind and body need time to recuperate, to recharge and repair. People complain how media and our current education system dumb's people down, and while that is partly true it is only part of the story, if people are overworked when they get home and rush to do the things that have to be done, cooking the dinner, do a little cleaning, sort of the kids, and after that they just drop on the sofa and switch on the goggle box, or more likely nowadays facebook and vegetate, not because they are dumb, just because the mind and body are exhausted and never have time to really recover.

Americans seem to think they hold some debt of gratitude towards their employer, some sore of cultural thing I guess, and while yes it is important to have work, your employer is not employing you out charity, not because of feelings of goodwill towards mankind. He hires you for one purpose, because he has too, because you make him profit, because trust me, if he could replace you with a machine that cost less your feet wouldn't touch the floor as he fired your ass and turfed you out. Yes we should respect our employer, and do the work we agreed to do in a professional and might I suggest friendly manner, but you owe them nothing just as they owe you nothing.

You have a life to live, you have to make up your mind whether you value your time, or you value money and gadgets, which you never have the time to really use, the most. Personally, I work to live, I have never lived to work, I enjoy having the the time with my kids, the freedom to go places. You should demand your vacation time, stop acting like indentured serfs tugging your forelocks to your corporate masters, even if you cant afford a vacation, its still nice to not have to wake to an alarm, to spend time with your friends and family

Originally posted by truthinfact
It is true what they say, America is the hardest working country in the world. We are all sons ands daughters of pioneers and crazy asses who came over here on boats.

We work hard.


also worth noting, the entire european economy ist kaput. maybe its from all that "vacationing"

I don't usually use harsh words, but then I don't usually get to read or hear such stupidities.
As far as I know, all European countries have similar laws on vacations, and have had them for SIXTY YEARS.
Laziness sure took its time to catch up with them, didn't it?

If you're so interested in this topic, go and research it. It's all there, on the WWW.
Even better, go there - or rather, come here - and see for yourself how people work.
But one thing is sure: people work to live (as comfortably as possible) - not live to work.
That's just perverse - and that basic perversity sooner or later spreads to other areas too.

Good OP.