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Have CERN got it wrong?

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posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 08:51 PM
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Ok, I'm no scientist. And have no clue how this LHC works. Scientist smash particles together at the speed of light, yippy. Some how this gives them the awnser to the universe. Nope.

Top scientists at CERN
Creation starts with nothing. Not two particles. So you are skipping two fundementle steps. The creation of the two particles! Where did they come from?
Forget about the god particle it could be wrong becouse there methods for the experiment are just to destructive. Here's my theory.

In the beginning there was one. (not quite nothing, but 100% closer than two)

It's magnetically charged + -. Polarised.

Fire that around your accelerator at the speed of light. Watch what happens? It should smash into itself, but the magnetism will push it away from collision, thus avoiding destruction of the particle and creating matter as it begins to orbit itself again and again, spiralling wider and wider. Creation/Expansion/ inflation.
flic.kr...

This way you create with one dummy's. Not destroying two to create one, that's just silly.
Give it a go and get back to us and let us know what you find.
Cheers, wifi, ats.

edit on 6-7-2012 by Wifibrains because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by Wifibrains
 


The creation of the two particles! Where did they come from?
Actually that would be THREE particles now.

two particles is just so linear,, and Passe'

yup,,,
now has too be 3...at or just before Creation,,,
particles,, along with assorted,,
charactueristics of course.

Yup that important.
and no,,Have CERN got it wrong?,,no.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 09:18 PM
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reply to post by BobAthome
 


I don't think I understand any of that lol, is it real talk or science?



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by Wifibrains
 


The scientists at CERN have a far greater understanding of physics as they appear now (as opposed to the the physics at the big bang), than you do. They can even put numbers against the measurements (mass, spin, charge, polarization & etc.) and those numbers agree closely with mathematical language that describes their theoretical understandings.

They have used this knowledge of what exists to form theories as to how this may have arisen and what underlying principles may be in operation.

By colliding particles together, the fundamentals that make up those particles fall out & we can measure them.

At no stage does anyone at CERN make the claim that the universe was created out of a high-energy particle collision. I think this assuption is because you don't actually understand what they are doing or saying.

Colliders like the LHC are just one tool we have in determining the underlying structure of matter. They are the experimental arm of standard model theory.


edit on 6/7/2012 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by Wifibrains
 


Atom=

1.Nuetron
negative
or lack of electrons,,no charge,,no Mass. ie Higgs-Bosun
2. Proton
3.Electron

Basic building blocks of Matter.

which now can include Matter,, with no Mass or Charge.

Confirmed.

ohh the above is also basic battery

pos.
neg ,,,
Electricity,, the Electro-Motive Force,,,

see how it fits.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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I'm sorry but i don't think you understand what is truly going on during their tests, these particles are smashed together not to join but to divide into the particles that they consist of



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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Hello OP, you seem to have missed the plot. The LHC is used to "Reverse engineer" matter in order to gain an understanding of what it consists of, and how it was created. They do not smash 2 particles together to recreate the big bang, as some seem to believe. They do it in order to shatter them and look at their "makeup" to try to grasp how it was created in the first place, what it consists of, and how the different parts interact.

In this case,what gives it mass. It´s no more than that really, don´t listen to all the glorifiers or hypers, they will only lead your mind astray even further.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 09:36 PM
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The theory I currently like, in the beginning there was just infinite time and space as I am not yet able to comprehend how there could be a boundary to these elements. As the first particle was made by deforming and compressing time and space, a corresponding anti particle also came into existence to balance out the total energy of the universe. I am not sure what type of particles where the first ones in existence, but having some type of + and - charge or attribute helps in getting things to add up.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 09:42 PM
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They are smashing the particles apart to "see" what's inside, not create the universe.

They are testing to see the "conditions" of the early universe not the early universe itself.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 10:35 PM
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The LHC works by magnetically accelerating hadrons, such as protons and neutrons, to 99.999% light speed and then smashing them together to see what is inside of them (quarks and gauge bosons). These particles subsequently decay into other particles, and all of this is detected and analyzed. Many particles that have been discovered by accelerators are predicted beforehand mathematically.
CERN-LHC
Particle Accelerator



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by BobAthome
reply to post by Wifibrains
 


Atom=

1.Nuetron
negative
or lack of electrons,,no charge,,no Mass. ie Higgs-Bosun
2. Proton
3.Electron

Basic building blocks of Matter.

which now can include Matter,, with no Mass or Charge.

Confirmed.

ohh the above is also basic battery

pos.
neg ,,,
Electricity,, the Electro-Motive Force,,,

see how it fits.



WOW! I hate to be rude but...WOW! First of all...go google the Periodic Table. Then check out what a Chemical reaction is as well as a Fission and Fusion Reaction.

An ATOM...may or may not have a Neutron as in the case of a Hydrogen Atom which tends to naturally exist as H2...a Elementary Hydrogen Molecule. But for now we will just look at a single Hydrogen Atom.

It has a Nucleus of a Single Proton which is a POSITIVELY CHARGED PARTICLE....this single Proton is also the extent of the Hydrogen Atoms Nucleus. It has no Neutron. For every Proton there must be a Quantum Particle in Orbit around the Nucleus which has a NEGATIVE CHARGE...this particle which also exists as a wave form is known as an ELECTRON. This is the smallest Atom or the one with the least Mass on the Periodic Table and has a Relative Atomic Number of 1...which is equal to the Number of Protons in an Atoms Nucleus.

Atomic Mass is a bit more tricky...since many Elements exist in multiple forms of an Isotopes...which means that they are releasing Neutrons over time and this is radioactive and in many cases DEADLY....an ATOMIC MASS OF AN ELEMENT IS DEFINED AS....RELATIVE ATOMIC MASS...or the average of all the states that a particular Element can exist as an ISOTOPES.

A NEUTRON IS A NEUTRAL CHARGED PARTICLE....BUT as we all know...certain Isotopes of Elements of Uranium or Plutonium can be used as Fuel for a Nuclear Reactor as well as a Nuclear Bomb of which there are many designs but two basic types. The Atomic Bombs dropped on Japan during WWII were simple Fission Bombs which one used Uranium and another used Plutonium. You can read up on this. The FUSION WEAPONS of today use the same reaction that occurs in a STAR...the Changing of Hydrogen into Helium by the process of Fusion. This is known as a THERMONUCLEAR REACTION and is anywhere from hundreds to TENS OF THOUSANDS of times more destructive than a simple fission reaction.

Now here is where you have shown you need to do some studying...PROTONS AND NEUTRONS are made up of SMALLER QUANTUM PARTICLES such as Quarks, Leptons, Gluons, Muons...etc...and they are what make up Protons and Neutrons. Light or PHOTONS as well as Electricity or ELECTRONS are also QUANTUM PARTICLES. These particles act not only as a particle but as a WAVE and thus have FREQUENCY so this is why we see different colors of light as well as be unable to see some Frequencies of Light such as Ultra-Violet or Infra-Red. Plus all Photons or Light....Electrons at specific Frequency on the Electromagnetic Scale...which includes RADIO WAVES...and many other things that travel at Light Speed or 186,300 Miles per second are all QUANTUM PARTICLES. The reason why they are smashing Sub-Atomic Particles together at CERN and at FERMI LABS is to gain understanding of what happens to certain particles at high energy and velocity impacts. This is key to trying to gain understanding of why the MACRO-UNIVERSE...anything as Large or Heavy as a Proton or Neutron and up to large Celestial Constructs such as Stars, Planets, Galaxies...etc...behave in a way that is understandable to Relativity or even General Relativity...except QUANTUM MECHANICS and all QUANTUM PARTICLES...behave completely different and even strange. The understanding of why this is so is the Holy Grail of Physics and Cosmology known as THE UNIFIED FIELD THEORY. Einstein spent the remainder of his life trying to find an all governing equation to Unify the Fields but FAILED! It is of my opinion that even when taking in 10 or 11 DIMENSIONAL STATES TO UNIVERSAL REALITY...and there are probably more...this is FOLEY since Quantum Particle Behavior is most likely integrated into a MUCH LARGER SYSTEM KNOWN AS THE MULTIVERSE. This is why the all important to find HIGGS-BOSON GOD PARTICLE which has been described as the particle which gives other particles the ability to have MASS...in my calculations...is most likely non-existent. If it were then PHOTONS would not obtain a MICRO-MASS when passing by Large Massive Celestial Bodies as well as be able to be captured by Black Holes. As I feel that the ONE THING that EINSTEIN got right was that GRAVITY IS NOT A FORCE...but simply an expression of Time?Space Geometry and in particular...SINGULARITY or ONE DIMENSIONALITY. You have much to red up on. Split Infinity



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity

Originally posted by BobAthome
reply to post by Wifibrains
 


Atom=

1.Nuetron
negative
or lack of electrons,,no charge,,no Mass. ie Higgs-Bosun
2. Proton
3.Electron

Basic building blocks of Matter.

which now can include Matter,, with no Mass or Charge.

Confirmed.

ohh the above is also basic battery

pos.
neg ,,,
Electricity,, the Electro-Motive Force,,,

see how it fits.



WOW! I hate to be rude but...WOW! First of all...go google the Periodic Table. Then check out what a Chemical reaction is as well as a Fission and Fusion Reaction.
QUANTUM PARTICLES...behave completely different and even strange. The understanding of why this is so is the Holy Grail of Physics and Cosmology known as THE UNIFIED FIELD THEORY. Einstein spent the remainder of his life trying to find an all governing equation to Unify the Fields but FAILED! It is of my opinion that even when taking in 10 or 11 DIMENSIONAL STATES TO UNIVERSAL REALITY...and there are probably more...this is FOLEY since Quantum Particle Behavior is most likely integrated into a MUCH LARGER SYSTEM KNOWN AS THE MULTIVERSE. This is why the all important to find HIGGS-BOSON GOD PARTICLE which has been described as the particle which gives other particles the ability to have MASS...in my calculations...is most likely non-existent. If it were then PHOTONS would not obtain a MICRO-MASS when passing by Large Massive Celestial Bodies as well as be able to be captured by Black Holes. As I feel that the ONE THING that EINSTEIN got right was that GRAVITY IS NOT A FORCE...but simply an expression of Time?Space Geometry and in particular...SINGULARITY or ONE DIMENSIONALITY. You have much to red up on. Split Infinity



quote by u
"This is why the all important to find HIGGS-BOSON GOD PARTICLE which has been described as the particle which gives other particles the ability to have MASS...in my calculations...is most likely non-existent."


HIGGS-BOSON GOD PARTICLE,,.is most likely non-existent.",,,ok,,


even though,its a confirmed fact it does exist,,

but thats ok,
,as long as,,
your opinion
that "a particle which gives other particles the ability to have MASS...in your calculations...prove that it most likely non-existent."
thats ok for me then,

wow indeed.



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 10:59 PM
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reply to post by BobAthome
 

BOB...take a read from the similar but more detailed...Physicists Get Closer Than Ever to God Particle...Topic. It will give you a Scale that O.R. has mentioned that makes it highly unlikely that what they have found is the Particle as Described. Take a look. Split Infinity



posted on Jul, 6 2012 @ 11:48 PM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
WOW! I hate to be rude but...WOW!
[...]
[...]
[...]
[...]
Now here is where you have shown you need to do some studying...PROTONS AND NEUTRONS are made up of SMALLER QUANTUM PARTICLES such as Quarks, Leptons, Gluons, Muons...etc...and they are what make up Protons and Neutrons. Light or PHOTONS as well as Electricity or ELECTRONS are also QUANTUM PARTICLES. These particles act not only as a particle but as a WAVE and thus have FREQUENCY so this is why we see different colors of light as well as be unable to see some Frequencies of Light such as Ultra-Violet or Infra-Red. Plus all Photons or Light....Electrons at specific Frequency on the Electromagnetic Scale...which includes RADIO WAVES...and many other things that travel at Light Speed or 186,300 Miles per second are all QUANTUM PARTICLES. The reason why they are smashing Sub-Atomic Particles together at CERN and at FERMI LABS is to gain understanding of what happens to certain particles at high energy and velocity impacts. This is key to trying to gain understanding of why the MACRO-UNIVERSE...anything as Large or Heavy as a Proton or Neutron and up to large Celestial Constructs such as Stars, Planets, Galaxies...etc...behave in a way that is understandable to Relativity or even General Relativity...except QUANTUM MECHANICS and all QUANTUM PARTICLES...behave completely different and even strange. The understanding of why this is so is the Holy Grail of Physics and Cosmology known as THE UNIFIED FIELD THEORY. Einstein spent the remainder of his life trying to find an all governing equation to Unify the Fields but FAILED! It is of my opinion that even when taking in 10 or 11 DIMENSIONAL STATES TO UNIVERSAL REALITY...and there are probably more...this is FOLEY since Quantum Particle Behavior is most likely integrated into a MUCH LARGER SYSTEM KNOWN AS THE MULTIVERSE. This is why the all important to find HIGGS-BOSON GOD PARTICLE which has been described as the particle which gives other particles the ability to have MASS...in my calculations...is most likely non-existent. If it were then PHOTONS would not obtain a MICRO-MASS when passing by Large Massive Celestial Bodies as well as be able to be captured by Black Holes. As I feel that the ONE THING that EINSTEIN got right was that GRAVITY IS NOT A FORCE...but simply an expression of Time?Space Geometry and in particular...SINGULARITY or ONE DIMENSIONALITY. You have much to red up on. Split Infinity


I was going to argue, but the 157th randomly capitalized word convinced me you must know what you're talking about. After all, everyone knows good science books and journal articles are filled with random words in all caps, it lets you know you're dealing with highly educated experts.

Well, and the rest of it is so incoherent I can't actually reply to it.


Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by BobAthome
 

BOB...take a read from the similar but more detailed...Physicists Get Closer Than Ever to God Particle...Topic. It will give you a Scale that O.R. has mentioned that makes it highly unlikely that what they have found is the Particle as Described. Take a look. Split Infinity


Or, take note of the similar thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
where the guy with an actual advanced degree in high energy particle theory explains what's going on.

You know, the thread where it's mentioned that there's a video of Peter Higgs saying "I can't believe we found it in my lifetime," followed by a discussion of that time he wrote down the theory of the Higgs particle, and how that's evidence that it was, in fact, discovered.

Or we can all declare it doesn't exist and write nonsense things in random caps, too, instead, that's fine by me!



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 12:28 AM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


Don't do it dude, I've seen what happens when people try to talk physics to bob. No one is at home there.

Have you ever felt like screaming and yet still incapable of looking away? Same thing...



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 12:36 AM
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Originally posted by Wifibrains
Ok, I'm no scientist. And have no clue how this LHC works. Scientist smash particles together at the speed of light, yippy. Some how this gives them the awnser to the universe. Nope.


If you're not a scientist, and you have no clue how the LHC works, why do you feel qualified to comment on their methods?

Do you think an international team would get together to fund a billion dollar experiment when the whole thing can be dismantled by one clueless guy on the internet? Are you actually interested in understanding this stuff, or are you already convinced that you've found disproven the whole endeavor?



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 12:43 AM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity This is why the all important to find HIGGS-BOSON GOD PARTICLE which has been described as the particle which gives other particles the ability to have MASS...in my calculations...is most likely non-existent. If it were then PHOTONS would not obtain a MICRO-MASS when passing by Large Massive Celestial Bodies as well as be able to be captured by Black Holes.


Photons don't aquire mass in a gravitational field. They don't need mass to have their path bent by gravity, since they're travelling in a straight line in curved space. Photons are and always will be massless.



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by mainidh
reply to post by SplitInfinity
 


Don't do it dude, I've seen what happens when people try to talk physics to bob. No one is at home there.

Have you ever felt like screaming and yet still incapable of looking away? Same thing...


Thanks for the warning! LOL! I also Ride...but the ol'e Lady knows me too well and knows that I just can't lay off on accelerating into the turn! LOL! Plus the people who look after me see this as a problem. One thing I really miss is I also used to ride Snowmobiles...Arcticats....hade a POLARIS that was so fast it even scared the S#!% out of me!

I snapped a throttle cable...reattached it short...went through a field and had to go down a hill through trees on a small path with a 90 degree turn at the bottom. Snowmobiles have jack for brakes. It was at too high an idle and I was going about 30 mph by the time I reached the bottom turn. Jumped off the back...one shoulder hit a small pine tree about 6 inches in diameter...spun me around...other back of shoulder hit another one. Polaris ended sticking straight out of broken ice in a swamp with two broken spindles and winding out. I jumped up with adrenaline...shut off the sled and lie there for an hour...then picked up the sled...stuck both skies under the busted up nose and got home 10 ft. at a time. So...this could be the same wreck as dealing with Bob? LOL!
Split Infinity



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 12:55 AM
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reply to post by wirehead
 

Hate to tell you this but contrary to popular belief...a supposedly Massless Quantum Particle Wave-Form which is what a Photon is...has been discovered to have a Super-Micro Mass. Now this would seem to go against conventional wisdom since if it had a Mass...how could it obtain 186,300 Miles per Second and not also have that Mass become Infinite?

Good Question. Here's the answer...Mass is not what people think it is. Yes...a Black Hole curves space to the point that even a Photon cannot escape....but then...Gravity is not a FORCE...it is an Objects ability to exist at different positions interconnected to One Dimensionality or Singularity and exist at these places dependent upon our perception of time being linear...which it is not. Split Infinity



posted on Jul, 7 2012 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by SplitInfinity
Hate to tell you this but contrary to popular belief...a supposedly Massless Quantum Particle Wave-Form which is what a Photon is...has been discovered to have a Super-Micro Mass.


Discovered by physicists preforming a careful, detailed experiment which was published in a peer-reviewed journal and has received hundreds of citations and won them a Nobel prize for this amazing discovery? Orrrrr?



Mass is not what people think it is.


Some people, indeed.



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