Well this can't be true, after all we all know that the french and russians opposed the lberation of Iraq due to "moral concerns"

However, courtship of French individuals and organizations by Iraqis predated even the first Gulf War (news - web sites), Duelfer points out.

In 1988, Iraq paid one million dollars to the French Socialist Party, with the Iraqi ambassador to France handing over the money directly to then-Defense Minister Pierre Joxe, according to the report, which cites Iraqi intelligence documents.

The Iraqi documents are quoted as saying that the ambassador, Abd-al-Razzaq Al Hashimi, was instructed to remind Joxe "about Iraq's previous positions toward France, in general, and the French Socialist Party, in particular."

Isn't it actually France's own business who they decide to have business relations with? Do they need to ask the USA? "Are these neighbors of ours too evil to you for us to do business with?"

Wasn't the US itself selling arms to Iran AND to Iraq in the mid-80's? Yes, yes they were.

While the Iraqi intelligence service tried to bribe many foreign nationals, it paid particular attention to influential personalities in France and Russia because the two countries hold permanent seats on the UN Security Council, said the report prepared by chief US weapons inspector Charles Duelfer, who has perused tonnes of secret Iraqi documents seized in the wake of the US-led invasion of the country.

"Iraq sought out individuals whom they believed were in a position to influence French policy," Duelfer, the special advisor to the Central Intelligence Agency, concluded.

See, it sounds to me like this might have actually been a good idea for Iraq. Identify with people's natural greed, which, sorry to say, the French have no exclusive rights to. These are French companies trying to make a buck, aren't they?

How dare the Iraqi government try to save itself, and how dare the French and Germans do business with a man that they have done business with for 30 years. Am I following this correctly?

Originally posted by kegs
The names of US companies and individuals involved were conveniently left off the list under US privacy laws.

I am more than a bit irritated by that.

Jakomo,

The French sold arms to Sadam for many many years. Jaque Irag did not get the nickname for nothing mind you. Everybody, the US included, sold arm to that country. to paint the US as the sole provider is simply wrong

Originally posted by Jakomo

Isn't it actually France's own business who they decide to have business relations with? Do they need to ask the USA? "Are these neighbors of ours too evil to you for us to do business with?"

Well, the thing is that many people, including you Jakomo, want the US to do the bidding of the UN.....and in order to accomplish this, many Americans are willing to vote for Kerry, knowing that he has stated that "he will unilaterally halt all US advanced weapons systems, and seek the approval of the world, his global test in order to use force to protect the US."
Ironic isn't it? that now you are saying that France shouldn't listen to anyone...That first...

Second, yes, it is true that the US helped Iraq against Iran, but at least the US has come to understand that Saddam was a ruthless dictator and stopped having any business with Saddam after he invaded Kuwait. France on the other hand, keeps showing that they woud do business with any dictator no matter what, just for economic profits.

FredT:

Everybody, the US included, sold arm to that country. to paint the US as the sole provider is simply wrong

I'm not saying they were. Countries do business with other countries according to their own trade laws and their own needs and their own policies. To say France is wrong for having done business with Saddam is wrong because many countries have, including the United States.

Muaddib:

Ironic isn't it? that now you are saying that France shouldn't listen to anyone...That first...

No, I'm saying that France doesn't have to listen to anyone else when it comes to their OWN economy and trade. I'm not talking about a military invasion here, I'm talking about business. If they wanted to militarily invade another country, then yes, they would need UN approval and would definitely seek it.

Second, yes, it is true that the US helped Iraq against Iran, but at least the US has come to understand that Saddam was a ruthless dictator and stopped having any business with Saddam after he invaded Kuwait. France on the other hand, keeps showing that they woud do business with any dictator no matter what, just for economic profits.

Do you know the history of your own country supporting dictators? Pinochet in Chile, Pol Pot in Cambodia, Suharto, Marcos, Noriega, the list goes on and on and on.

The United States of America will do business with anyone, anywhere, for any reason, as long as there's profit, so don't go slamming France for doing the same exact thing. You only stopped doing business with him after he invaded Kuwait.

You didn't even mind after he apparently gassed all those Kurds in 1984. Keep the money rolling in.

In fact, the massacre was brought out as a REASON to invade Saddam in 2002 even though when it happened it was common knowledge in the United States government that it had happened. So, again, the US does exactly what you deride France and Germany for doing.

jako

Originally posted by Jakomo

No, I'm saying that France doesn't have to listen to anyone else when it comes to their OWN economy and trade. I'm not talking about a military invasion here, I'm talking about business. If they wanted to militarily invade another country, then yes, they would need UN approval and would definitely seek it.

Oh, do you mean like when France tested nuclear bombs in French Polynesia, outside of their terrotory of course, and made sure that the south pacific was assured of having nuclear fallout? not caring that many nations were close to the fallout area...the last test was done by France in Dec 1995...... Sure the French care about the rest of the world....

Shoo, let me ask you, were any of those American companies doing this with the US government consent? Do take a look at the information of all those companies and if they were backed by their respective contries, when you post the rest of the evidence then we can discuss this.

[edit on 7-10-2004 by Muaddib]

Unfortunately this is neither amusing or irritating or anything else. The countries named may be culpable, but yet again America comes up with an excuse sheet and pleads innocence through suppression of evidence.

The initial enquiry into 9/11, - 27 pages of Saudi Arabia’s involvement conveniently blanked out.

This report – every American company and individual involved, blanked out.

The only people they’re trying to fool are Americans themselves, and they’re succeeding.

They're sure as hell not fooling anyone else.

Originally posted by kegs
Unfortunately this is neither amusing or irritating or anything else. The countries named may be culpable, but yet again America comes up with an excuse sheet and pleads innocence through suppression of evidence.

That could be true, but first you have to find if there is any credibility in the copies that shoo gave first. Second there are companies that make deals without the consent or the knowledge of their governments, but there are others that make these deals and their governments are involved in these deals.

Ahhaha, No mate.

I don't care what Shoo or anyone else said.

First you have to pretend America had nothing to do with any of these of these types of allegations, which unfortunately so many are so readily prepared to do.

I mean, of course, surely there's no ulterior motive political or otherwise in making these allegations against foreign governments whilst blanking out the US's involvement in the same thing is there?

It's not as if it stinks of hypocrisy is it?

We are having this conversation now so... it's pretty obvious that no one is even suggesting that American companies were not involved. They ARE however protecting the identities of the individual companies involved, which isn't necessarily an admirable policy. Still, can't you clearly read... US company, US company, etc.? If you believe THAT'S an attempt at a cover-up then I understand why you might think that we're all a bunch of fools. It's clear that many countries were involved in this issue and that's kind of the point. Think and/or read before you point fingers.

I commend you FredT for trying to add a little balance to this site. I understand that you were not defending the US as much as you were showing that everyone everywhere has their hands dirty with this mess and not just the US. I find it funny that when someone does post something that's not strictly anti-american, people like jackomo and kegs run to the defense of everyone except the US.

BTW if we were all a bunch of gullible fools like some of you are so convinced, then we'd never question anything, and EVERY election would be a landslide victory for whichever candidate "they" want us to elect. We didn't get to be the world's only hyper-power by being near-sighted or just plain dumb.

Originally posted by Muaddib
Shoo, let me ask you, were any of those American companies doing this with the US government consent? Do take a look at the information of all those companies and if they were backed by their respective contries, when you post the rest of the evidence then we can discuss this.

Muaddib, let me tell you that you are the person who is pursuing like noone else on this board, that countries like France and Germany(you have a crush on us ? ) made weapon and oil deals with Iraq. In all of your several hundred posts you always lacked one answer: Did French and German companies trade with Iraq in consent with their governments?

While this has been partly proofed for France and french companies I can remember a dicussion between us two about Sudan. You told me that GERMANY(not german companies) sold weapons to Sudan, yet I saw no answer on my question: Companies or the Government.

Telling me now that it is me who can't see the difference a countries actions and company actions is quite ignorant. It's you who's the number one "let's blame the country for a companies fault" shoutbox.

[edit on 8-10-2004 by shoo]