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Abuse Obamacare, here is how.

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posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:15 AM
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Before I go to the how to, I'll give a little background information about myself. I am nothing but an average guy, I have an engineering degree but my salary is just below $40k, barely enough to live. Through many sacrifices I've managed to save $600/month for the last two years. I plan to keep doing this for the next 3 years so as to have enough money to buy a building and start my own business (I figured that by doing this a $10k downpayment would still leave me enough cash to survive about one year in case the business fails, finding a new job will not be easy).

Enter Obamacare. I currently do not pay insurance, if I did my employer would pay half but I would still have to kiss a good part of those $600 goodbye. Come 2014 I will not be buying insurance either, instead I'll have to pay the tax. I was worried about how that would affect me, and after a lot of research I found a hole, a very deep hole.

You see, under the new health law insurance companies cannot deny service based on pre existing conditions, this means you can buy insurance the minute you get sick and still receive full benefits. If you are healthy, like I am, there is really no point in buying insurance, just pay the new tax and wait until you get sick to pay for insurance. This could be 1 year, 5 years, or even 20 years. It will save you a lot of money but you will still be relatively safe. **NOTE: This will not work if you become disabled in an accident, and if you are worried about that by all means pay the insurance**.

www2.ljworld.com...

I talked to a coworker about this and he called me irresponsible. I ask, how am I irresponsible if I am paying whatever the law is requiring me to pay? I recon that if enough people do this the healthcare system will go bankrupt, but is that really a bad thing?

The reason healthcare costs are through the roof is insurance comanies. Medical facilities can charge all they want because they know insurance companies will pay them. If insurance companies can't pay them anymore, doctors will be forced to either charge a lot less for care, or go hungry because Americans will not be able to afford medical care. This would mean a lot less research and development, but you will finally be able to walk into your physician office and pay $50 for a checkup without insurance and not the $200~$300 they currently charge in my area.

At some point I hoped Ron Paul or Romney would win, then I wouldn't have to pay anything. But hey, if I can be relatively safe for $90/year then Obamacare is not so bad after all.




posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by daniel_g
 


In 2014 that fine is $2,200.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:30 AM
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reply to post by lives
 


For a family of 3. How much is insurance for the same 3 people?



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:38 AM
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reply to post by daniel_g
 


$2,199.

j/k. Depends on the plan you purchase, just like before. You aren't actually going to have to buy one master plan from Uncle Sam. Imagine that!



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by AkumaStreak
reply to post by daniel_g
 


$2,199.

j/k. Depends on the plan you purchase, just like before. You aren't actually going to have to buy one master plan from Uncle Sam. Imagine that!


lol $2199 would be awesome because if the tax is higher than the premiums the law becomes unconstitutional


For a single guy like me, in 2016 the tax will be $690 a year, that is about half of what the cheapest "I don't cover anything" plan in NOVA is. I will still go with the tax and by then I will have saved the money I'm looking to save so the increase won't affect me that much. That's just my personal view though, dunno if that is enough to make someone else want to buy a plan.

edit on 1-7-2012 by daniel_g because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:46 AM
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reply to post by daniel_g
 


How does it become unconstitutional? I'm not sure how the whole thing works.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:51 AM
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reply to post by daniel_g
 


You aren't abusing it...you are using it exactly how it is designed.

That is the entire piont...you don't have insurance and don't pay anything now...when you start paying the penalty...that is money going into the system.

It's your choice to make, and it is a valid and legal choice to make.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by OutKast Searcher
 


Eugenics program or debtors prison, choices choices...



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by Guard5002
reply to post by daniel_g
 


How does it become unconstitutional? I'm not sure how the whole thing works.


You know what, good question, I don't have much knowledge of the law either but I will quote LibertyOne from the link I provided:


Ahh, but if the penalty goes up that much, it would be declared unconstitutional by the Court. They emphasized that it was not a mandate but a tax because the tax was small enough that it did not amount to financially forcing you to pay for insurance. At the point where the tax is as much as insurance would cost, then it becomes a mandate and would be unconstitutional.


I can only hope he is right.


Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by daniel_g
 


You aren't abusing it...you are using it exactly how it is designed.

That is the entire piont...you don't have insurance and don't pay anything now...when you start paying the penalty...that is money going into the system.

It's your choice to make, and it is a valid and legal choice to make.


I guess you're right, but the money will not go to insurance companies, it will go towards subsidising the cost of caring for non insured, in other words, the medical facilities. If everyone opted for the tax, insurance companies will go bankrupt and it would be interesting to see what happens from there. If it's seen as the government competing with private sector I'm sure a lot of people would not be happy.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:31 AM
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reply to post by daniel_g
 


In 2014? You'll probably be paying between $700-800 a month for a family of 3 .. that'd be roughly $9,600, assuming you're paying all of it. That's conservative.. with spending caps removed and a bunch of sick people coming into "healthy" groups, premiums could go much higher.

Another loophole is that you can purchase health insurance in December, cancel in January .. then you had insurance during the year with a policy number right? They can't fine you.

This nation rewards irresponsibility, they promote it and encourage it. So I say find every possible loophole you can.. if the poor and the lazy get a free ride, we should too.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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The sad truth for me is while i do need insurance i simply cannot afford it. I would like to have it but its not going to happen. I also will not pay there Penalty/Tax whatever they want to call it as i disagree with it as a matter of principal and could not afford to pay it even if i wanted to. I also don't believe I should receive tax payer subsidized healthcare as i am not anyone else s responsibility. Until we manage to get the healthcare industry under control things will not change"I am aware there is no real easy answer to this problem" in the end all we have managed to do is make a bad thing worse!



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by daniel_g
 


I left a job in 1991 that paid 100% of my health insurance costs. Not one penny came out of my pocket. Since that time my family of four has lived without health insurance. I swear. We pay for medical costs out of pocket and thankfully we are all very healthy and the only expenses in the past 21 years has been an ear infection that required a doctor visit, a cut knee that needed stitches, and a case of pink eye that needed drops.
How much money have I saved not having insurance all these years ? Did we take a risk ? Yes we gambled and we came out on top. I dont recommend it for everyone but we really didnt and still dont have money for health insurance.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by OutKast Searcher
reply to post by daniel_g
 


You aren't abusing it...you are using it exactly how it is designed.

That is the entire piont...you don't have insurance and don't pay anything now...when you start paying the penalty...that is money going into the system.

It's your choice to make, and it is a valid and legal choice to make.




Why should ANYONE have to pay anything ?

Why are we being forced to pay a Penalty,a TAX ?

Dont we pay ENOUGH taxes already ?

Why isn't congress PAYING the same amount ?

This is garbage !



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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reply to post by SimonXGrim
 


They will simply take this from any tax refund you might have coming to you. If you do not normally get a refund it will become part of the taxes you have to pay at the end of the year. There is no way around it. You either get insurance or you pay this fee whether you can afford it or not.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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I have spent a few minutes thinking about this.....and have a theory, not saying it's right.

If people use the "pre-existing" clause in the bill, and wait until they are sick to buy insurance, this will effectively kill the insurance companies in a short period of time. Money going out, but not enough money in premiums coming in to offset.

What would happen if insurance companies starting going bankrupt, like we have seen the banks and the auto industry do? Federal intervention in the form of nationalized healthcare, through bailouts or just outright take over of the insurance business.

Maybe that is the plan from the beginning. There is no benefit to having insurance until you need it if companies are not allowed to deny you coverage. The tax imposed for not carrying healthcare is a fraction of the cost of healthcare for a year. Either the bill is a true showing of our governments idiocy or it's a true showing of their sneakiness.

Either way we lose....



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by aimlessly
I have spent a few minutes thinking about this.....and have a theory, not saying it's right.

If people use the "pre-existing" clause in the bill, and wait until they are sick to buy insurance, this will effectively kill the insurance companies in a short period of time. Money going out, but not enough money in premiums coming in to offset.

What would happen if insurance companies starting going bankrupt, like we have seen the banks and the auto industry do? Federal intervention in the form of nationalized healthcare, through bailouts or just outright take over of the insurance business.

Maybe that is the plan from the beginning. There is no benefit to having insurance until you need it if companies are not allowed to deny you coverage. The tax imposed for not carrying healthcare is a fraction of the cost of healthcare for a year. Either the bill is a true showing of our governments idiocy or it's a true showing of their sneakiness.

Either way we lose....


It already happens. All these people without insurance still get treated and when they can not pay the bill that cost is passed on to the people who do have insurance or pay. That increased cost to insurance companies is passed on in higher rates. And insurance companies are still making plenty of money, people without insurance get a free ride and those to who have it get bent over with higher and higher rates. The idea now is if everyone has insurance they will see a doctor and have things caugh earlier and cheaper instead of waiting for later and very expensive ER visit.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:09 PM
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The big difference now though is that people are going to be able to wait to get insurance until they need it. I think many people will pursue this avenue since the penalty/tax is lower than the annual cost of healthcare.

This will domino with premiums going up in order for the insurance companies to try to recoup some of the losses they will be incurring.

It will fast track the bankruptcies, IMO.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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I know what I am going to do if this is enforced.. I will not be filing income tax forms any longer and I will claim exempt on my withholding... Then if I get tossed in the slammer eventually, so be it.. I will not become a willing slave to this tyranny.



posted on Jul, 1 2012 @ 04:26 PM
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Does anyone know how this will work for the folks who don't work and therefor do not pay into the system at all?



posted on Jul, 11 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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Loopholes, loopholes. Can't engage in open insurrection or rebellion against the government because there are laws against that. Cannot speak of even organizing a group and formally declaring war against the government because that would be sedition at the very least.


Ah, a loophole: There is no current law on the books about formally declaring war on the insurance industry. The mere fact that the insurance companies do not have any military at all and that their actuaries would say that owning a gun is dangerous says that it would be cakewalk.


There are no solutions for the common person other than informing your representatives that if it is not repealed by election time, they will not receive your vote and you will actively campaign for no one else to cast their vote for them as well. Remind them also that since they are politicians and are voluntarily public figures that you can make any statement in the world about them under the guise of satire, so long as it is labeled or easily understood as such. If they doubt it tell them to review the Supreme Court case of Hustler Magazine, Inc. v. Falwell, 485 U.S. 46 (1988).



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