Logic can not exist without Emotion, but Emotion can exist without Logic...

It is impossible to be completely "Logical" without emotions, although some claim this. Logic can only have purpose when it is combined with Emotion.

Logic can tell you that "A leads to B", but it doesn't explain whether it is important at all or why?


Logic without Emotion will make you run in circles...


For example:

If people were compassionate to each other, there would be less suffering...

Why does it matter whether there is suffering or not?

Probably because less suffering can make yourself and other people healthier...

Why does it matter if people are healthy?

It is important for the human species...

Why is the human species important?

...and why is that important? and why is that important? and what makes that important?

Without Love Compassion, you can not use logic. You run in circles...

Only The Emotion can give Importance to something... Unless you actually have Compassion for the human race, "Health", "Happiness", means nothing.

So for the people that do not believe in Emotion, and believe that the Logic is more important, we must keep in mind that it is The Emotion which gives the meaning and that The Emotion can exist without Logic because Logic is just understanding and designing a path from The Emotion.

reply to post by arpgme


Without Love Compassion, you can not use logic. You run in circles...


Try telling that to this guy...you'll get a Vulcan nerve pinch in a jiffy..!

Although I do believe that compassion has an important role and that it is A logical conclusion, I submit from the logical side, Respect can answer the questions as well and can be seen as pure logic.

reply to post by arpgme


I find your example illogical. The "why" something is Important has little to do with emotion, In my opinion, a more accurate statement would be "wisdom", the ability to evaluate importances describes it better.

If the ability to evaluate importances is based on experience/s, then the will be emotion connected to the "experiences" but not necessarily "relived/carried foreward.

At first look, I don't see that logic requires emotion, motion yes. Emotion, sometimes.

reply to post by arpgme


I agree. You presented that very well. It's all about language- logic is the process of making meaningful deductions, but it is a product of our language, which is emotional in its meaning. Reasoning (logic) is not incompatible with emotion, as you'd agree, but logic is only meaningful as an organizing method for essentially value (emotion) based language. If I'm understanding you correctly.

I expect some will disagree and point to computer logic, but even this is based on human values, both in the creation of programs and in the meaning of results. On the surface it might seem to some that mathmatics and computer logic are independent from ordinary human language, but closer philosophic reflection finds them to be reflections of our natural language in a deeper sense. The truths of mathmatics, if truly objective, are at very least understood and used in our own human way. Pure logic, independent of value, is either meaningless in an absolute sense, or at very least incomprehensible.

reply to post by seaside sky


Exactly. You said exactly what I wanted to say but in a clearer way.


To the people that are suggesting that "compassion" is logical, this is only true because you have intent/desire (emotion).

If you want a kinder less suffering world, then yes, compassion is the logical answer, but you are still working with emotion because you are using a logical expression in order to fulfill your emotion of wanting a more kind world.

Importance is not an independent quality. If something is important, that means that it is meaningful to something else, but it doesn't actually say why that "something else" is important.

If I say water is important to sustain life, it still does not explain why life is importance.

Originally posted by facelift
reply to post by arpgme

 

Without Love Compassion, you can not use logic. You run in circles...


Try telling that to this guy...you'll get a Vulcan nerve pinch in a jiffy..!

Spock was half human.

Emotions aren't needed for logic.

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by facelift
Emotions aren't needed for logic.

Without Emotion, why use logic? Motivation, Inspiration, Intention, Desire, Wanting To Do Something is all rooted in emotion. There is no reason to use logic without it.

Computer programs use logic. They have no emotions.

It's a stretch to say that... perhaps human logic is often laced with emotion (which can be confused with problem solving), but logic itself does not require it. It's mathematics for calculating reason.

reply to post by ErroneousDylan


They were designed by human intention/desire (emotion).

reply to post by arpgme


Thanks. Good examples you're giving here, and I hope others will see what you're getting at. Logic without natural language (concepts) is like grammatical rules without the language. Both are systems that are inextricably tied to the natural language. Much of logic is actually a sort of exploration of the idiosyncracies of the natural language that created it. A good example is the concept of past, present and future. Most languages (particularly western European ones) have a grammatical structure that demands a time distinction, and so our logical systems tend to follow the same pattern.

Meaning lies in the concepts of the natural language (as you said- why is something good, important, etc.) The concepts behind the words we use are far more infused with emotional value and human perspective than most people recognize.

Of course logic can exist without emotion.

What do you think computers are???

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I've already responded to someone who said this.

Computers are TOOLS, they are there to help fulfill human DESIRE/INTENTION (Emotion).

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


I understand what you're saying- but the OP is going a bit deeper into epistomology than that. Our understanding and use of logic (or any system) arises from our human perspective, and owes much of its structure and all of its meaning to the natural language. It's the way the mind works.

For an example, imagine a person making things from wood without any means of knowing anything about trees apart from what he can make out of them. He's understanding wood through his own perspective and value system. The wood is related to the unknowable tree, but in an epitomological sense, it's more of a construction of the guy who's working with it. Now, say mathematics is like the tree- we know it only for what we can use it for, and can only understand or express it it through the natural language of our thoughts. If mathematics and logic exist in a truly objective sense, we cannot access that- the more we experiment with them, the more we explore our own perspectives and values.

So, for all practical purposes, the logic we use is an expression of our natural language in our search for understanding. But we can't take our natural language out of the equation in any meaningful way, so logic, as we are able to know it, is a tool in service to the human mind, with all the emotion and value judgments that entails.

Originally posted by arpgme

To the people that are suggesting that "compassion" is logical, this is only true because you have intent/desire (emotion).

Is intent really the same as desire?

What about purpose.

Does seeing why something would function better a certain way - - - need to be from an emotional base?

reply to post by arpgme



Compassion is not an emotion. Sympathy and empathy are emotions but sympathy and empathy are not compassion.

Compassion definition:

Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it.

This definition offers pity as a synonym, but look to the very same dictionary for the definition of pity:

1. Sympathy and sorrow aroused by the misfortune or suffering of another. 2. A matter of regret: It's a pity she can't attend the reception.

One might equate forgiveness with compassion but again forgiveness is an emotion, where compassion is a logical thought that requires no emotion in order to act upon it.

It does not require emotion to recognize suffering in others. It does not require emotion to compel someone to relieve that suffering.

Logic is indeed limited to its own parameters and one can, with incomplete data, arrive at a logical conclusion that would be incorrect due to the lack of necessary data, but that necessary data isn't emotion, but may, at times, require an understanding of emotion.

Logic an exist without emotion. This is why computer programs operate under logic but remain unemotional.

balance is needed I agree, but look at computers, logic without emotion.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by ErroneousDylan

 

They were designed by human intention/desire (emotion).

I'm not sure how that changes anything.

Since when did computers become human?