reply to post by pthena
Thank you for your reply my friend, I didn't think i'd see this thread back on the boards but it is the appropriate place for it...
As JMDewey pointed out, there was a flaw in the experiment. The actual flaw being that I was fully aware of other sayings of Jesus in other
places in the synoptics ( my mind and emotions are a non sterile laboratory ). While reading in Mark about the early ministry of Jesus, and how the
people of Galilee province received his teaching with joy (3:7,8) in my mind was the sayings of woe from Luke 10: "woe to you ... " about the very
same people. What? What happened?
You don't believe there were different tribes in the very same province? How do you know the one hes speaking of are the "very same" people?
Now here is my theory: The death of John the Baptist, who Jesus had very high regard for. Elijah, if you will. The only Elijah who would come
before the end (whatever that may be). Take the rather sterile saying on divorce and marriage to another.
Mark 10: 11 He said to them, "“Whoever divorces his wife, and marries another, commits adultery against her. 12 If a woman herself divorces her
husband, and marries another, she commits adultery.”"
Taken in its historical and political context, this saying is anything but sterile. Jesus already pretty much put Moses in his place, compromiser to
the hardness of heart. John had been beheaded for saying it wasn't lawful for Herod Antipas to marry his brother's wife. Herod Antipas had been
married to Phasaelis, the daughter of King Aretas IV of Nabatea. She was a border treaty wife, seal or guarantor of the border between Perea and
Nabatea. So this simple family matter of divorce by Antipas so he he could marry his niece was a matter of war.
Do you believe all marriages are "ordained" by God so to speak?
My personal belief is that 95% if not 99% of marriages are a union joined by "law", not by God... though Christians also believe their churches are
the "house of God"... Thus any union performed under said roof is of God...
I tend to want to believe those that are joined "by God" can not be torn asunder... they are one flesh, as he said. Though i also believe this is an
extremely rare event. Two people that litterally can not live or breath without the other...
Did Jesus fall into great depression when he saw his flock go off to prepare for war? Family member against family member, some fighting for
Galilee and Perea just because they were subjects of Antipas, and others against because Nabatea and John the Baptist had been wronged?
I would say no... remember?
34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
Did his depression morph into a suicidal resignation? That's when he started telling his disciples that they were on their way to Jerusalem,
where he would get killed. He quoted Zechariah 13:7 later to back up his claim of all his disciples falling away, Mark 7:27. What was Jesus
I don't really get depression from his words... that seems to be a recent "medical" term... There was definatly sadness in him... but try to
imagine knowing the absolute correct path of God, and trying to verbalize it so others could understand it... and yet few people actually "get it"...
that would cause sadness wouldn't you say?
As far as the passage from Zechariah, i don't see much similarity between that and what he said honestly...
7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be
scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Perhaps you are simply reading into these verses a bit... you did say your Christian background tends to give a bias...
Is it because it uses the words sheep and shepard?
That entire chapter is supposed to be a prophesy, though to me this seems indicative of the OT God and his destruction and Wrath bable you'll find
through out the OT..
One thing i've never understood is how Christians connect entirely different books like that... i suppose its because they believe the bible is "Gods
word" and "one book"...
It seemed obvious to me that he was conceding the field to the OT god who punishes his servants for being his servants, and taught his
disciples to do likewise, "take up your cross and follow me."
Really? I don't see any similarities between the two... Which is one of the reasons i made this and many other threads on the issue.... What is the
issue with "take up your cross"?
During that time, Jesus was pushing people away, ( that's the source of condemnation feelings ). I'm not willing to concede the field to the
god who desired the death of Jesus. That's not my God.
Im sorry but im not seeing this either... His words are not for everyone... He did say his "sheep" know his voice...
I don't see "God" wanting the death of his son either, only that it was going to happen... IF we have free will, then those that executed him did so
of their own free will... They didn't understand who he was... And by Jewish laws any association with yourself being "of God" is blasphemy... So
even if he called himself the SON of God, he still broke their laws...
The world has left no place for Marcionism. It was brutally crushed. If it had not been crushed, but allowed to survive into the modern era,
the neo-Marcionites would have dropped the idea that the OT god was creator, and realized that his claim of being the creator was a big fat lie. But
no, that option for a neo-Marcionism has been completely removed from the table. Please allow me to leave the table also. (Whoops! Have I just
conceded the field?).
I agree with that... but please don't leave the table until the meal is finished my friend...
And theres always desert...
edit on 1-11-2012 by Akragon because: (no reason given)