Sincere help for 9/11 debunkers

Originally posted by 7jg12
reply to post by soulwaxer

 

I call all of this bullshi*.

There are people out there whose solely job is to debunk the truthers.
They are being paid. It's their job. It is their work. OK?
It amazes me you guys don't see it.

soulwaxer is unable to face and embrace that because he is emotionally traumatised.

Originally posted by anoncoholic

imagine that, almost all the major players are Jews, from the insurance payoff to the security firm to those who scripted it all in PNAC

So because you are anti semetic/xenophobic, 9/11 was an inside job. Well, I am glad you are here to shed so much logic on the topic. I now know the truth!!

Whether or not the US Government was directly responsible for the attacks, no one can deny there were MASSIVE failures and outright negligence by the CIA, FBI, and the White House prior to and after 9/11. Over and over again the US was warned of impending attacks on American soil. From January 2001 to September 10th, President Bush alone was briefed over 40 times regarding "al-Qaeda's" growing threat to America, yet not ONE single action was taken... Although, several political figures were cautioned not to fly on 9/11... I suppose the public wasn't deemed worthy of such information. Regardless, such warnings prove prior knowledge.

No matter your position regarding 9/11, it's difficult to argue in favor of the Government and their actions, or lack thereof, before and after the attacks. Whether it was incompetence, negligence, or complicity, the Government and every American citizen should have been outraged and demanded accountability, but sadly and shamefully this did not happen. Instead the White House stone walled any kind of investigation, and 4 years later when they eventually yielded, the Commission tasked with the investigation was littered with FBI, CIA, and White House cronies. The fix was in from the beginning and any hopes of an independent, truthful, and uncompromising investigation went up in smoke.

The Government was determined to keep certain information away from the public and for good reason. If more people knew the truth there would have been hell to pay. Truths like the FBI and CIA knowingly letting flagged terrorists come and go through the US unsolicited. Truths like several of the hijackers being trained to fly commercial jets right under the FBI's nose. Truths like the fact that most of the supposed hijackers were still alive and well... The connections and implications go on and on. Whatever really happened on September 11th, 2001, the US Government certainly did not want the world to know about it, and it's difficult to argue otherwise.

Without question the smoking gun to Government involvement is the collapse of WTC 7. Whether or not you believe the towers were brought down by explosives, it is hard to deny the identical resemblance the WTC 7 collapse shares with a controlled demolition. The building falls in on it's own footprint into a perfect pile at near free fall speed. How anyone can watch the WTC 7 collapse and see anything but a controlled demolition is preposterous. Even if you're completely convinced WTC 7 was brought down due to fires, you cannot deny that the collapse looks indistinguishable from a controlled demolition.

If you conclude WTC 7 came down from explosives, you must then conclude bombs were prepared in advance throughout the building... Therefore there was a conspiracy to connect the collapse to the "terrorist attacks" and to coverup the resulting investigation. It is only a short and logical step to then consider the entire events of 9/11 to be a conspiracy; implicating only the select few capable of executing such an operation and making a whitewash of any inquiry.

Originally posted by solongandgoodnight
i remember that when i finally faced the facts of 9/11 it's as if i was being hit in the gut with a ton of bricks. my thoughts were as anybody's would be. "why did our gov. do this? how could this happen?" i felt violated as an american. tears came all over again but this time in a different way.

i now knew something i could not unknow. our government was willing to KILL not only in other countries but our own, to get more power and control. accepting this reality is difficult (understatement of the year) and cuts you to the bone. it was difficult for me to accept also because you can't help but feel so helpless. how can we take our country back? that is the real question to deal with now.

Thank you very much for sharing that. It is very familiar, and I'm sure many many others experienced the same. It's very painful, it feels like life will never be the same again, which it most likely won't. But sometimes I am able to see this as an opportunity for some serious change. Sometimes I can see how this time they went too far and were overly confident. I believe that a few things went wrong in the plans on 9/11. Building 7 is the most obvious example. I don't believe it was meant to fall so late in the day, and maybe was even supposed to take a hit from the plane that 'crashed' into that field in Pennsylvania (which is also a good example of a little problem they are stuck with that may likely come back to bite them in the *ss. Maybe that is why the movie about the heroic attempt by the passengers to take over flight 93 was made. Mind control.). Most of that is speculation but it sure fits nicely into the big picture with all the facts that we have. Sometimes you need to speculate in order to be able to conceive a full picture of the inconceivable.

So anyway, part of me has faith in the fact that us waking up to the big awful truth has the potential for us to realize that we are all in the same boat and there is no longer any need to take the crap anymore. It seems to me that the shock might just be powerful enough. It's either that or we sell our soul...

Originally posted by GiodanoBruno

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by soulwaxer

 

So why does the 911 conspiracy only exist in cyberspace?

With cyberspace one can only express one's true interpretations without having there lives ruined. I could never express my signature within my industry. Get it?

That's right. People are very quick to form baying mobs when something threatening (like truthism) dares to appear in public.

Mark Twain Quotes

Truth is stranger than fiction--to some people, but I am measurably familiar with it.

Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't.

Truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing the matter with this, except that it ain't so.

Never tell the truth to people who are not worthy of it.

There have been innumerable Temporary Seekers after the Truth--have you ever heard of a permanent one?

I like the truth sometimes, but I don't care enough for it to hanker after it.

The last two quotes pretty much sums it up what most people do.If they have any doubt about things they just push it away and move on just to keep the status quo. This goes with their religion or societies so called norms or anything that is promoted as truth. If the majority believe it must be true and that is all that is needed and so carry on as usual with every day life.Can we say the masses are trained not to think.Anything that bursts their bubble of reality they cant handle and that is why they get that glazed look about them and they get uneasy when you talk about 9/11 or similar subjects.Of course the words conspiracy theories conjures up images of nutjobs,tin foil hat wear freaks,therefore people dont want to be labelled as such.

Originally posted by 7jg12
reply to post by soulwaxer

 

I call all of this bullshi*.

There are people out there whose solely job is to debunk the truthers.
They are being paid. It's their job. It is their work. OK?
It amazes me you guys don't see it.

I don't know if you're referring to me, but I have mentioned that I don't think there are NO paid shills out there. There definitely are, both online and the rest of the media. I don't know how many. I just hope you don't think that ALL debunkers are paid shills? If so, I have 2 friends in real life who are debunkers and who I often discuss 9/11 with. I highly doubt that they are being paid to do this. In fact, they often tend to avoid the subject. But they are having the same effect, for as long as they keep propagating the official story. I used to blame them for being part of the problem. I no longer do. I have realized that their reactions are natural, and besides that, it's too destructive to blame them and want them punished. There are other ways of dealing with them that are much more productive. They need help (so do we), hence this thread. I look at it a bit like heroine junkies. Helping them is much more productive than blaming and punishing them. I know this last bit is gonna get me some harsh reactions. That's ok.

Originally posted by soulwaxer

. We are trying to help people like you to come to terms with reality so that we can change it for the better.

This is the best summation of the "official truther story" I have seen so far.

Everyone will eventually know that al-Qaeda never existed, acted under the control of the US Government and acted on its own initiative but with the passive complicity of the US Government to hijack planes, not hijack planes and try but fail to hijack planes, that the US Government, a small rogue element within the US Government, and Mossad operating without the knowledge of the US Government crashed the planes into the towers under remote control, crashed different planes into the towers undeer remote control, didn't crash any planes into the towers but projected holograms of the planes crashing into the towers, and didn't crash or project anything but convinced everyone that planes hit the towers by showing it to them on TV, after which the towers were blown up by explosives that made lots of explosions that everybody heard, weakened by thermite silently which explains why nobody heard any explosions, blown up by nuclear weapons in the cellar which started collapses from the top, and turned entirely to dust by energy beams from space which is why there was no debris, and that the debris pile was then kept hot for months by thermite that hadn't reacted when it all reacted to bring the towers down, and all the steel that wasn't there was immediately taken to China which is why the steel recovered shows signs of explosives, melting and dustification, and a plane, a missile, a different plane and a hologram all crashed into the Pentagon except that it was only one of them, or pulled up at the last second and flew over the Pentagon, leaving a neat 12 foot hole that caused 90 feet of the bit of the wall that had recently been reinforced to collapse, and another plane was shot down at Shanksville then landed in Cleveland leaving no wreckage at Shanksville that was spread out over too large an area to be from a crash even though it didn't exist. That's what really happened, and some day everyone will figure out how obvious it all is.

Is this the reality you're helping us come to terms with ?

Originally posted by jaws1975
I think that this is true with a lot of people, and I have seen it first hand. I went over to my brother's house one night and the topic of 9/11 came up, my brother's girlfriend was there and listening to the conversation. When she heard me talking about how it was an inside job she freaked out and ran upstairs crying! She didn't come down for almost an hour! She took it so personally, because she is from NY and has much more of an emotional attachment to the story. Denial is very emotionally rooted!

Thanks for sharing that. I have seen this happen to one person myself, a little less dramatic and more gradually. I would be interested in knowing how your brother's girlfriend is dealing with that experience afterward. I think it's rare that people so suddenly let the truth sink in to the point where they lose it. Usually something protects them from that. You will often see shock in their eyes for a moment, but that will quickly disappear. You can actually see the process of denial take shape right in front of you. After that, you may notice a slight discomfort in their manner when discussing 9/11. And what they say then may seem unauthentic. Sometimes they will go along with you for just a bit, in the hope that you will drop the subject yourself. At that point, you can really see the fear. I have seen this in several people in real life. I have seen different reactions too, but more often than not, there is obvious resistance. Which is normal. By the way, the more I have this experience, the more difficult it becomes. It hurts to hurt other people. This is a real dilemma for many truthers. I often wonder if they are entitled to their bliss. Who am I to force a new reality onto them. And then I think about my kids' future, and I am stuck. That's why I prefer posting on this forum about it. I am not forcing anything onto anyone. Everyone is here for a reason.

If we can decide what stands for authority to decide what is the truth, we could define the pathway to follow. Unfortunately the current milieu or domain that should represent the embodiment of truth is pending approval of trustworthiness for the last century at least. Unfortunately truth has purchasing power. And anything that has purchasing power will find an equvalent of it in money. It is the human nature that draws the line where the parity stands. One who is acccountable for his paycheck to support a pre-defined opinion, unfortunately can be assumed an authority be it his experience or educational background. Thus it is our fallacy to consider one who represents science because of education or experience, would represent an authority in honesty, especially if that would contradict or jeopardise his job position. And as our society is subject to carrot and stick principle, the defined line of official evidence or an authority is pending indefinitely. We must cut the umbilical cord and stop supplying the nutrients to the government or its asociated parties. The truth will seep out itself.

reply to post by samkent


I suggest you actually read before you post. Everyone knows its no conspiracy. It's fact. Just certain people do not have the emotional/mental capacity to be able to understand the truth.

Originally posted by Providentia
Whether or not the US Government was directly responsible for the attacks, no one can deny there were MASSIVE failures and outright negligence by the CIA, FBI, and the White House prior to and after 9/11. Over and over again the US was warned of impending attacks on American soil. From January 2001 to September 10th, President Bush alone was briefed over 40 times regarding "al-Qaeda's" growing threat to America, yet not ONE single action was taken... Although, several political figures were cautioned not to fly on 9/11... I suppose the public wasn't deemed worthy of such information. Regardless, such warnings prove prior knowledge.

No matter your position regarding 9/11, it's difficult to argue in favor of the Government and their actions, or lack thereof, before and after the attacks. Whether it was incompetence, negligence, or complicity, the Government and every American citizen should have been outraged and demanded accountability, but sadly and shamefully this did not happen. Instead the White House stone walled any kind of investigation, and 4 years later when they eventually yielded, the Commission tasked with the investigation was littered with FBI, CIA, and White House cronies. The fix was in from the beginning and any hopes of an independent, truthful, and uncompromising investigation went up in smoke.

The Government was determined to keep certain information away from the public and for good reason. If more people knew the truth there would have been hell to pay. Truths like the FBI and CIA knowingly letting flagged terrorists come and go through the US unsolicited. Truths like several of the hijackers being trained to fly commercial jets right under the FBI's nose. Truths like the fact that most of the supposed hijackers were still alive and well... The connections and implications go on and on. Whatever really happened on September 11th, 2001, the US Government certainly did not want the world to know about it, and it's difficult to argue otherwise.

Without question the smoking gun to Government involvement is the collapse of WTC 7. Whether or not you believe the towers were brought down by explosives, it is hard to deny the identical resemblance the WTC 7 collapse shares with a controlled demolition. The building falls in on it's own footprint into a perfect pile at near free fall speed. How anyone can watch the WTC 7 collapse and see anything but a controlled demolition is preposterous. Even if you're completely convinced WTC 7 was brought down due to fires, you cannot deny that the collapse looks indistinguishable from a controlled demolition.

If you conclude WTC 7 came down from explosives, you must then conclude bombs were prepared in advance throughout the building... Therefore there was a conspiracy to connect the collapse to the "terrorist attacks" and to coverup the resulting investigation. It is only a short and logical step to then consider the entire events of 9/11 to be a conspiracy; implicating only the select few capable of executing such an operation and making a whitewash of any inquiry.

edit on 24-6-2012 by Providentia because: changed spacing for easier read

Thanks for all those very clear points.

About the US government blocking the investigation. That alone should cause anyone not to trust them. And I know that many don't, including many debunkers.

Originally posted by celticdog
Mark Twain Quotes

Truth is stranger than fiction--to some people, but I am measurably familiar with it.

Truth is stranger than fiction, but it is because Fiction is obliged to stick to possibilities. Truth isn't.

Truth is mighty and will prevail. There is nothing the matter with this, except that it ain't so.

Never tell the truth to people who are not worthy of it.

There have been innumerable Temporary Seekers after the Truth--have you ever heard of a permanent one?

I like the truth sometimes, but I don't care enough for it to hanker after it.

The last two quotes pretty much sums it up what most people do.If they have any doubt about things they just push it away and move on just to keep the status quo. This goes with their religion or societies so called norms or anything that is promoted as truth. If the majority believe it must be true and that is all that is needed and so carry on as usual with every day life.Can we say the masses are trained not to think.Anything that bursts their bubble of reality they cant handle and that is why they get that glazed look about them and they get uneasy when you talk about 9/11 or similar subjects.Of course the words conspiracy theories conjures up images of nutjobs,tin foil hat wear freaks,therefore people dont want to be labelled as such.

Thanks for your reply. I am seeing more like-minded posts than I was expecting.

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by soulwaxer

. We are trying to help people like you to come to terms with reality so that we can change it for the better.

This is the best summation of the "official truther story" I have seen so far.

Everyone will eventually know that al-Qaeda never existed, acted under the control of the US Government and acted on its own initiative but with the passive complicity of the US Government to hijack planes, not hijack planes and try but fail to hijack planes, that the US Government, a small rogue element within the US Government, and Mossad operating without the knowledge of the US Government crashed the planes into the towers under remote control, crashed different planes into the towers undeer remote control, didn't crash any planes into the towers but projected holograms of the planes crashing into the towers, and didn't crash or project anything but convinced everyone that planes hit the towers by showing it to them on TV, after which the towers were blown up by explosives that made lots of explosions that everybody heard, weakened by thermite silently which explains why nobody heard any explosions, blown up by nuclear weapons in the cellar which started collapses from the top, and turned entirely to dust by energy beams from space which is why there was no debris, and that the debris pile was then kept hot for months by thermite that hadn't reacted when it all reacted to bring the towers down, and all the steel that wasn't there was immediately taken to China which is why the steel recovered shows signs of explosives, melting and dustification, and a plane, a missile, a different plane and a hologram all crashed into the Pentagon except that it was only one of them, or pulled up at the last second and flew over the Pentagon, leaving a neat 12 foot hole that caused 90 feet of the bit of the wall that had recently been reinforced to collapse, and another plane was shot down at Shanksville then landed in Cleveland leaving no wreckage at Shanksville that was spread out over too large an area to be from a crash even though it didn't exist. That's what really happened, and some day everyone will figure out how obvious it all is.

Is this the reality you're helping us come to terms with ?

edit on 24-6-2012 by waypastvne because: (no reason given)

No.

That's just silly.

By the way, you could write the same kind of silly text concerning the "official official story". Maybe you should have a go at it?

reply to post by BBobb


They won't even play it fair for Ron Paul . What makes you think this will EVER be brought up again by the MSM. The only time they "remember" is when the date is September 11. That's when they re-program your minds an reinforce the ludacris Idea that islamic terrorists are this sophisticated.

I mean, look at their track record, this has NEVER been and likely never can be, or will be done again.

MODS, please don't delete this comment.

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by 7jg12
reply to post by soulwaxer

 

I call all of this bullshi*.

There are people out there whose solely job is to debunk the truthers.
They are being paid. It's their job. It is their work. OK?
It amazes me you guys don't see it.

soulwaxer is unable to face and embrace that because he is emotionally traumatised.

That's not even worth replying to, but what the hell. Go back and see if you can find where I mentioned the reality of paid shills. You are just not up to speed here.

Originally posted by paradox

Originally posted by anoncoholic

imagine that, almost all the major players are Jews, from the insurance payoff to the security firm to those who scripted it all in PNAC

So because you are anti semetic/xenophobic, 9/11 was an inside job. Well, I am glad you are here to shed so much logic on the topic. I now know the truth!!

you know nothing

The two witnesses of Revelation are Jews, Christ who then comes to pass judgment is a Jew but you would have to know God to understand that. My love is my defense, you have none when you keep denying truth.

you shoot the messengers... same old song and dance from your breed,

You only think you know truth but believe it or not, the truth will never go away and is coming to convict you too as surely as you bear false witness. and is as easily proven as looking at the players. To refuse to do so and accuse someone else is evil and it doesn't matter how many cronies support you in your quest at covering up truth, you are in collusion and are as guilty.

Inside job? It is always an inside job when a shadow government rules but you are still asleep and dreaming that your opinion matters ... the ballot box least of all places.

... you should Pray.

reply to post by anoncoholic


Its about to go from ballot box to ammo box pretty soon in America once the truth is out.

Unfortunately its already taken over 11 years. Cave dwellers with box cutters.....

It's baffling how many people who post particularly on "alternative" discussion sites have NO clue of the definition of "debunk." It's almost like it's an unspoken REQUIREMENT of such posters to be ignorant of the word's meaning. News flash: Debunking is not, never has been and never will be done by mere OPINION or even by a theory, much less a hypothesis. Debunking is the result of absolute, incontrovertible, case-closed proof ONLY, where the debunked are forced to admit they were wrong. "Debunker" is NOT a synonym for "nonbeliever" or "naysayer." Sorry I just HAD to get that off my chest... And yes, if it matters, and in case one can't already tell, I too am a vehement disbeliever of the official 9/11 lie/fairy tale. It very much needs to be officially debunked.

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by soulwaxer

 

So why does the 911 conspiracy only exist in cyberspace?

It doesn't. When it happened I had no internet. When I saw the FIRST building come down (live, as it happened) I stood up and shouted "B******T, controlled demolition!". The other buildings being demolished just reinforced that fact further. The youtube videos came afterwards. It was obvious at the time.