Sincere help for 9/11 debunkers

Originally posted by Alfie1
reply to post by soulwaxer

 

If there is some obvious universal truth about 9/11 being an "inside job" how come truthers have come up with 1001 different scenarios but no hard facts ?

It's a misinformation tactic. It dilutes the truth and makes 9/11 conspiracy theorists all look like nutters.

reply to post by zipobibrok


That was exactly the same as my reaction that day. Since then, the more I hear, the more I read- the more certain I am that the OS is bu##s##t.

Originally posted by zipobibrok

It's a misinformation tactic. It dilutes the truth and makes 9/11 conspiracy theorists all look like nutters.

Not only that, but there is no unified 'truth movement', so why should we have a unified opinion?

There are just thousands of individuals asking questions. The OS supporters like to stereotype, using the most ludicrous claims, in order to make it easier to demonize and dismiss. Just another tactic that makes them appear to have a unified agenda, but seriously you can trace their arguments back to about three websites. They just repeat what is said on those sites over and over again.

the reason 911 worked so well is because of time. the average america wont care about anything outside a 5 year time span, due to various materials we ingest through our food and water supply.

reply to post by southtower


then you follow the game plan and will ultimately lose.

They own us, lock stock and smoking barrels because they own the munitions too. (read nuclear/chemical/biological here)

you can only win with a philosophy - a philosophy of peace.

that isn't saying a win to their game, but a win for humanity... and your soul

Sink to their level and they have won out over your heart and mind and your soul is as forfeit as theirs is.

They own the courts, the judges, and write the laws. How can you ever expect to wage battle on an entity that has gripped so many hearts and swayed so many minds?

It is always about money - was always about money, and will end when people put life over greed.

... that isn't happening and as surely as it had been written so many centuries ago, the time to pay the piper is here

The best thing you could do is offer no resistance to what is inevitable. You might spare more innocent suffering along the way because they won't just eliminate you, but all. The downfall of man like unto the days of Noah is all but complete. War is their answer but this time God will end their reign of terror.for good (pun intended)

It puzzles me why people don't see the overall picture here. They pit us against each other by hurting some, pointing blame at others, and laugh while we succumb to reason that they introduced

Originally posted by soulwaxer

No.

That's just silly.

By the way, you could write the same kind of silly text concerning the "official official story". Maybe you should have a go at it?

Why don't you give us a coherent "Official Truther Story "instead.

We've waited years for one.

reply to post by waypastvne


You could just write it down instead, i am pretty sure you could come up with something nice after believing whatever it is someone on the news stated happened.

Building exploding dramatically somehow equates to a gravity-driven collapse in your minds,, that says it all.

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore

You could just write it down instead,

Would you like to provide us with your "Offical Truther Story" You can focus on the explosives if you want.

Fit your evidence together into a complete story for us.

reply to post by waypastvne

You can focus on the explosives if you want.

But they can't. They don't have the first clue how to bring down a building with explosives. Nobody has ever presented one single picture of any "explosive demolition components" left over in the rubble. Firefighters were all over that pile. They lost friends there. They are trained to identify these things so they stay safe and alert authorities. Don't they think that these guys would have come forward if they saw any suspicious brightly color coded firing train components left over? Not one has. Not one photo of anything remotely resembling it either.

And yet supposedly they brought down each floor in a "controlled" manner with what would have taken tons of charges and miles of shock cord and wire. Where are the leftovers? The chemical trace identifiers in manufacturers products? Surely would be a "Eureka Moment".

Fire fighter: "Hey look at what I found! Them dirty bastards killed our buddies!"













Firefighters 911 rubble

Originally posted by ANOK

How do know that? How do you know that the secrets that have been revealed are not like only 0.000000001% of the actual goddamn secrets the government holds?

But it has gone far beyond the reaches of the federal government. Heck we even have "paid disinfo agents" on this very site.

Just to name a few included in this "inside job" there are the MSM, other major U.S. corporations, the USAF, the NYPD, FDNY, foreign news organizations, Israel and the overall general Jewish conspiracy which I can only take as meaning all Jews. Eyewitnesses, the private firms manning the airport security checkpoints, security at the twin towers, and on and on the list continues.

But it definitely could not have anything to do with Islamic terrorist. No way.

Why do I need to continue. You know the script by now and it will continue to grow with time.

Originally posted by Classified Info
Heck we even have "paid disinfo agents" on this very site.

Let's crosscheck and see if all of us paid disinfo agents are working for the same guy.

My pay check is signed by some guy named Ron Paul.

Who is signing yours.

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by GiodanoBruno
You want facts? Read my factual signature.

except that is NOT factual.... just your opinion

Really ?

Both planes didn't way 392 tons?

Both planes weren't made from aluminum?

Those 3 towers didn't have a combined weight of 1,200,000 tons ?

Those 3 towers weren't made from mild steel and reinforced concrete?

Those are all facts babe


Good try though

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by waypastvne

 

You can focus on the explosives if you want.

But they can't. They don't have the first clue how to bring down a building with explosives. Nobody has ever presented one single picture of any "explosive demolition components" left over in the rubble. Firefighters were all over that pile. They lost friends there. They are trained to identify these things so they stay safe and alert authorities. Don't they think that these guys would have come forward if they saw any suspicious brightly color coded firing train components left over? Not one has. Not one photo of anything remotely resembling it either.

And yet supposedly they brought down each floor in a "controlled" manner with what would have taken tons of charges and miles of shock cord and wire. Where are the leftovers? The chemical trace identifiers in manufacturers products? Surely would be a "Eureka Moment".

Fire fighter: "Hey look at what I found! Them dirty bastards killed our buddies!"













Firefighters 911 rubble

edit on 24-6-2012 by intrptr because: retraction

The above is a great example of what many of us consider a "hole" in the controlled demolition conspiracy theory. And it's just one of many.

You see, as much as I appreciate the sincere help being offered to me in this thread, personally, I've really bought into the idea of proof "beyond a reasonable doubt" when it comes to accusing people (or organizations of people ) of orchestrating or abetting atrocious acts of mass-murder. And these holes, for many of us, cast real doubt on the so-called "obvious" truth of this theory by "people with eyes that see", because people with minds that think know that finding truth usually involves more than the eyes.

And there are more holes.

Big ones:

For example, regarding the alleged controlled demo of WTC7, I still haven't heard a good explanation for this:

Fire Chief Frank Fellini: "The major concern at that time at that particular location was number Seven, building number seven, which had taken a big hit from the north tower. ... We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing".

Fire Chief Daniel Nigro: "The biggest decision we had to make on the first day was to clear the area and create a collapse zone around the severely damaged 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story building heavily involved in fire. A number of fire officers and companies assessed the damage to the building. The appraisals indicated that the building's integrity was in serious doubt."

Chief Frank Cruthers: "Of primary importance early on in the operation was the structural condition of 7 World Trade Center. Assistant Chief Frank Fellini had been approached by several chiefs who were concerned about its stability. It had been heavily damaged in the collapse and was well-involved in fire. Chief Fellini had looked at it and described to us some damage to its south side; he felt that structural components of the building had been comprised. So when Chief Dan Nigro arrived at the command post, he convened a meeting of staff chiefs, and this was a major subject of the meeting. We were all in accord about the danger of 7 WTC, and we all agreed that it was not too conservative of a decision to establish a collapse zone for that building, move the firefighters out of the collapse area, and maintain that strategy." (Frank Cruthers, "Postcollapse Command," Fire Engineering, 9/2002)"

And where is that evidence of explosives? An why no audible explosions? People talk about witnesses who reported some random, intermittent booms, but why are there not, in any of the videos, audibly salient detonations which would typically be heard in the demolition of such massive buildings? Like these for example:



AND HAVE YOU EVER READ THIS?


It's not about cognitive dissonance, the Oedipal Complex, or my fragile eggshell mind. It's about reasonable doubt.

It's about holes.

Originally posted by anoncoholic
reply to post by southtower

 

then you follow the game plan and will ultimately lose.

They own us, lock stock and smoking barrels because they own the munitions too. (read nuclear/chemical/biological here)

you can only win with a philosophy - a philosophy of peace.

that isn't saying a win to their game, but a win for humanity... and your soul

Sink to their level and they have won out over your heart and mind and your soul is as forfeit as theirs is.

They own the courts, the judges, and write the laws. How can you ever expect to wage battle on an entity that has gripped so many hearts and swayed so many minds?

It is always about money - was always about money, and will end when people put life over greed.

... that isn't happening and as surely as it had been written so many centuries ago, the time to pay the piper is here

The best thing you could do is offer no resistance to what is inevitable. You might spare more innocent suffering along the way because they won't just eliminate you, but all. The downfall of man like unto the days of Noah is all but complete. War is their answer but this time God will end their reign of terror.for good (pun intended)

It puzzles me why people don't see the overall picture here. They pit us against each other by hurting some, pointing blame at others, and laugh while we succumb to reason that they introduced

Thanks for some very wise words!

It puzzled me too, for years, that people don't see the overall picture, but not anymore. If they really truly aren't able to consciously see it, then it is inconceivable for them. But the information is still there, somewhere. And even if they can't see it, they CAN feel it. It has an obvious effect on their actions too. I sympathize with them though. It took me 3 to 4 years to be able to see the truth. That's still a long time. Who am I to judge how long it takes others to see it? I am curious by nature. That certainly helped me see things before others with a different nature. One that holds different qualities than mine, but that I can nonetheless look up to and respect. I know several people in the health sector who have practically given their life to fighting for patient rights (whatever their reasons may be), and they do not see the truth of 9/11 and everything it implies. Since they passionately invest so much time in what they do, they are a lot less likely to see enough information to form the whole picture. If they do, and even if they are emotionally able to conceive it all, for most it takes a while for the information to sink in, and to connect enough dots. I respect that. I even respect that they will ridicule others for what they can't conceive of. That's a tough one, but my reasoning for that starts with the role of the education system and the mainstream media. Hopefully that makes sense. It's hard to explain without writing an endless post.

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by soulwaxer

No.

That's just silly.

By the way, you could write the same kind of silly text concerning the "official official story". Maybe you should have a go at it?

Why don't you give us a coherent "Official Truther Story "instead.

We've waited years for one.

edit on 24-6-2012 by waypastvne because: (no reason given)

Many people during the last world war waited years for one too.

Originally posted by waypastvne

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore

You could just write it down instead,

Would you like to provide us with your "Offical Truther Story" You can focus on the explosives if you want.

Fit your evidence together into a complete story for us.

Hey guess what!
You didn't provide us with any story. You got your story from the mainstream media. THEY provided it.

So...... what's YOUR story?

Originally posted by soulwaxer

Hey guess what!
You didn't provide us with any story. You got your story from the mainstream media. THEY provided it.

So...... what's YOUR story?

And their story came from real people who were there and witnessed the events.

Are you having trouble putting together a logical "Official Truther Story" using "Real Truther Facts" ?

Until you give us a better one, this one will have to do. It was pieced together from evidence given to us by real Truthers.

Everyone will eventually know that al-Qaeda never existed, acted under the control of the US Government and acted on its own initiative but with the passive complicity of the US Government to hijack planes, not hijack planes and try but fail to hijack planes, that the US Government, a small rogue element within the US Government, and Mossad operating without the knowledge of the US Government crashed the planes into the towers under remote control, crashed different planes into the towers undeer remote control, didn't crash any planes into the towers but projected holograms of the planes crashing into the towers, and didn't crash or project anything but convinced everyone that planes hit the towers by showing it to them on TV, after which the towers were blown up by explosives that made lots of explosions that everybody heard, weakened by thermite silently which explains why nobody heard any explosions, blown up by nuclear weapons in the cellar which started collapses from the top, and turned entirely to dust by energy beams from space which is why there was no debris, and that the debris pile was then kept hot for months by thermite that hadn't reacted when it all reacted to bring the towers down, and all the steel that wasn't there was immediately taken to China which is why the steel recovered shows signs of explosives, melting and dustification, and a plane, a missile, a different plane and a hologram all crashed into the Pentagon except that it was only one of them, or pulled up at the last second and flew over the Pentagon, leaving a neat 12 foot hole that caused 90 feet of the bit of the wall that had recently been reinforced to collapse, and another plane was shot down at Shanksville then landed in Cleveland leaving no wreckage at Shanksville that was spread out over too large an area to be from a crash even though it didn't exist. That's what really happened, and some day everyone will figure out how obvious it all is.

Originally posted by intrptr
reply to post by waypastvne

 

You can focus on the explosives if you want.

But they can't. They don't have the first clue how to bring down a building with explosives. Nobody has ever presented one single picture of any "explosive demolition components" left over in the rubble. Firefighters were all over that pile. They lost friends there. They are trained to identify these things so they stay safe and alert authorities. Don't they think that these guys would have come forward if they saw any suspicious brightly color coded firing train components left over? Not one has. Not one photo of anything remotely resembling it either.

And yet supposedly they brought down each floor in a "controlled" manner with what would have taken tons of charges and miles of shock cord and wire. Where are the leftovers? The chemical trace identifiers in manufacturers products? Surely would be a "Eureka Moment".

Fire fighter: "Hey look at what I found! Them dirty bastards killed our buddies!"













Firefighters 911 rubble

edit on 24-6-2012 by intrptr because: retraction

Settle down.

Are those low res images supposed to prove that there were no "explosive demolition components" in the rubble??? Is that your line of thinking?

Why don't you point out to me in those images the following items:

1. A desk (or a part of a desk)
2. A computer (or a component of it)
3. A telephone (maybe a cellphone?)
4. An electrical outlet, a light switch, phone cables, server cables, lighting cables, ...
5. A human being.......
6. Do you get where I'm getting at?

Amazing what denial can do to a person's thinking. It's people like you that I wrote this thread for. Respectfully.

Originally posted by Classified Info

Originally posted by ANOK

How do know that? How do you know that the secrets that have been revealed are not like only 0.000000001% of the actual goddamn secrets the government holds?

But it has gone far beyond the reaches of the federal government. Heck we even have "paid disinfo agents" on this very site.

Just to name a few included in this "inside job" there are the MSM, other major U.S. corporations, the USAF, the NYPD, FDNY, foreign news organizations, Israel and the overall general Jewish conspiracy which I can only take as meaning all Jews. Eyewitnesses, the private firms manning the airport security checkpoints, security at the twin towers, and on and on the list continues.

But it definitely could not have anything to do with Islamic terrorist. No way.

Why do I need to continue. You know the script by now and it will continue to grow with time.

As I see it, you are ignoring the SYSTEMIC aspect of all the groups you mentioned, and society in general.

You are focusing on the people within the system that are being controlled by the system themselves. They are generally not the deciding factor. They are pulled into a system with it's own rules, social control, etc. I'm not talking about the very top of the chain of command here. That's a different story all together.

It helps a lot to look at the big picture. When you focus too much on the individual components, you can't see how the system works. And you certainly can't see why the system works.

reply to post by lunarasparagus


Thanks for your post.

Please read my own reply to that post, about 15 minutes ago.