Southern Baptists - 'Same Sex Marriage is Not a Civil Rights Issue'

reply to post by beezzer

Originally posted by beezzer
Can someone please explain to me why in the case of autism, we treat the individual to conform to scociety, but in the case of homosexuality, we expect society to conform to the individual.

As children, many parents DO try to teach their gay children to conform to society. What are you talking about? If you don't think there's pressure for gay people to "be treated" to conform to straight society, you haven't been paying attention.

Whether autistic or gay, as adults, they each can decide whether they want to be "treated" or not.

But autistic people can marry. They can even marry other autistic people!

It's called FREEDOM, beez.

Originally posted by AshOnMyTomatoes
reply to post by MentorsRiddle

 

That's really what you think, is it? Do I have to be the guy who points out interracial marriage, suffrage for women, the end of slavery, Jim Crow laws, etc?

The majority is not always right.

Why do I have to be the guy to point out that anyone who has a brain can see now that those laws were good and kept things working well? It is no coincidence that our modern society is what it is only after we repealed these laws. Their removal has done more to destroy the fabric of this nation than any other event or cause.

It was a bad idea to end slavery. The wrongs that were done to blacks could have been addressed and solved without removing the institution of slavery. It was the absolute king of all stupid ideas to end it. Before, blacks were fed, housed, clothed and made to do productive work. We still feed, house, and clothe them, but we get nothing but crime and mayhem for our efforts. How can any thinking individual see this as being good? Jim Crow laws mitigated the damage from the stupid decision to end slavery and the laws worked. You prefer the mayhem we have now?

Women voting? How has that helped anything? All I can see is we now elect presidents based on looks and not character. Women voting has given us monsters like FDR, Clinton, Bush, and now Obama. They have voted with their hearts and feelings and that is a certain way to ruin a country.

And then interracial marriage......how can a compassionate human think it is a good idea to make mulattoes? The poor creatures get to be rejected by both races. I know, I was young and stupid once and made one. The poor kid is struggling with his identity and it was wrong of me to have sex with is black mother. No person should be put through that.

I think it is clear in hindsight that we have destroyed what made this nation great by being wusses and allowing rights to people that should not have them. It has to stop. We can't fix it, it is too late to go back. But really, we do not need to make it any worse.

reply to post by Ookie

Originally posted by Ookie
Why do I have to be the guy to point out that anyone who has a brain can see now that those laws were good and kept things working well?

Maybe because you're one of the very few who have such an antiquated way of thinking. Slavery, Jim Crow, oppression of women... Ah yes, those were the good old days!

Originally posted by truthseeker808

Marriage is and has always been defined as the union between a man and woman.
It is not a right, but a "privelage" granted to hetero couples that can possibly can generate
and educate offspring.

There is nothing in the marriage license that requires procreation. If the marriage license doesn't require procreation, then there is no reason why a couple who don't procreate with each other can't get a marriage license.

The whole issue a moot point anyways.
Because regardless of whether "marriage" is defined as a woman and a man, all other forms of the union will always be defined with a hyphen.
Gay marriage will always be an equivalency to the proverbial marriage. It will never be equated to a regular marriage simply because it is by self evidence" different".

Your children's children won't think that. They'll assume that gay marriage was always around, just like my daughter is shocked to learn in school that blacks had to use separate bathrooms "way back when".

homosexuals have all the "equal rights" as any other person in this nation
What they do not have is the right to redefine the meaning of marriage

YOU do not have the right to tell them they can't get married.

Likewise, a gay or lesbian couple who decide to have a loving, monogamous relationship are not operating blindly off natural dynamics. They CHOOSE to live together that way.

Yes, because it allows them to have happy and fulfilled lives. They have the right to the pursuit of happiness, when they are not hurting anyone else - just everybody else does.

Originally posted by Ookie

Originally posted by AshOnMyTomatoes
reply to post by MentorsRiddle

 

That's really what you think, is it? Do I have to be the guy who points out interracial marriage, suffrage for women, the end of slavery, Jim Crow laws, etc?

The majority is not always right.

Why do I have to be the guy to point out that anyone who has a brain can see now that those laws were good and kept things working well? It is no coincidence that our modern society is what it is only after we repealed these laws. Their removal has done more to destroy the fabric of this nation than any other event or cause.

It was a bad idea to end slavery. The wrongs that were done to blacks could have been addressed and solved without removing the institution of slavery. It was the absolute king of all stupid ideas to end it. Before, blacks were fed, housed, clothed and made to do productive work. We still feed, house, and clothe them, but we get nothing but crime and mayhem for our efforts. How can any thinking individual see this as being good? Jim Crow laws mitigated the damage from the stupid decision to end slavery and the laws worked. You prefer the mayhem we have now?

Women voting? How has that helped anything? All I can see is we now elect presidents based on looks and not character. Women voting has given us monsters like FDR, Clinton, Bush, and now Obama. They have voted with their hearts and feelings and that is a certain way to ruin a country.

And then interracial marriage......how can a compassionate human think it is a good idea to make mulattoes? The poor creatures get to be rejected by both races. I know, I was young and stupid once and made one. The poor kid is struggling with his identity and it was wrong of me to have sex with is black mother. No person should be put through that.

I think it is clear in hindsight that we have destroyed what made this nation great by being wusses and allowing rights to people that should not have them. It has to stop. We can't fix it, it is too late to go back. But really, we do not need to make it any worse.

Beezzer is going to run screaming (little a tiny little mulatto girl) from THIS post and poster, because righteous hell is going to rain upon this thread.

*scamper*
*hop*

Originally posted by beezzer
The point I'm trying to make, is that in some genetic traits, we work to correct the genetic expression, in order for the individual to fit in to society.

Like Left Handedness?

It is only recently a gene was found that might lead to why some people are Left Handed.

10% of the population are Left Handed. Same percentage for homosexuals.

Yet in homosexuality, we adjust society in order to accomidate the genetic expression.

Same as Left Handedness.


]

There are left handed scissors, can openers, notebooks, yard tools, kitchen gadgets, and shoe-tying instructions... Freaking left-handed people want "special" items when they should just conform to the majority like the rest of us do.

reply to post by Ookie


I believe you will find a KKK forum elsewhere on the internet - it's NOT here on ATS.

I will not dignify your post with a response, other than to say - I am glad you are the fringe minority.

Originally posted by petrus4
If you're willing and you have the time, go and read this..

I clicked on your link.
I can't see anything ... it's one big grey screen.
I have no idea what it is or what it says.

I took the name in your link - NARTH - and looked up what narth is ... and this is what came up.

RationalWiki - NARTH

The National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality (NARTH) is a non-profit, secular organization established in 1992 by three ministers psychologists/psychiatrists who founded the organization to counter the prevailing scientific consensus that homosexuality is not a disorder. NARTH claims homosexuality can be fully cured though "conversion therapy", and that homosexuality is a choice, and worse, a disease that should be cured. NARTH does not actually do any therapy; they fund research, provide referrals, provide a journal for the woomeisters, and (sadly) send out copious amounts of material to high schools and colleges to help them "help the gay".

reply to post by Ookie

PLEASE tell me you are being sarcastic.

Originally posted by Annee
10% of the population are Left Handed. Same percentage for homosexuals.

My school psychology books say 1-2% are homosexual.
If you add in bi-sexual and transgender etc etc, that raises to 4%.

Originally posted by OpsSpecialist

If scientifically proven, and use a big IF there, it would clearly be a civil rights issue. Discrimination because of something inherent at the deepest level of what makes a person. You can treat a mental condition. Changing DNA is something else all together.

Left Handedness is not proven - - - just saying. Only recently was a gene discovered that might prove to be the link to why some people are Left Handed.

10% of the population is Left Handed
10% of the population is Homosexual

But its OK to get married if you are Left Handed - - as long as you are straight.

I think its very clear that sexual orientation is a Birth Right. I don't agree it must be proven for it to be a civil right.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by Ookie

 

PLEASE tell me you are being sarcastic.

Originally posted by Annee
10% of the population are Left Handed. Same percentage for homosexuals.

My school psychology books say 1-2% are homosexual.
If you add in bi-sexual and transgender etc etc, that raises to 4%.

1-2% represents those who openly admit homosexuality

The 10% comes from the Kinsey report.

I think its going to be a while before a real accurate account can be made. I'm betting it will be higher then estimated.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by beezzer

 

Originally posted by beezzer
Can someone please explain to me why in the case of autism, we treat the individual to conform to scociety, but in the case of homosexuality, we expect society to conform to the individual.

As children, many parents DO try to teach their gay children to conform to society. What are you talking about? If you don't think there's pressure for gay people to "be treated" to conform to straight society, you haven't been paying attention.

Whether autistic or gay, as adults, they each can decide whether they want to be "treated" or not.

But autistic people can marry.

They can even marry other autistic people!

It's called FREEDOM, beez.

edit on 6/23/2012 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)

No, it's nothing to do with freedom.
No one is stopping anyone getting married.
It's just a pathetic idea to force the meaning of marriage on others particularly Christians via proxy i.e. state.
Stop the drama.
I am all for same sex marriage.
Just don't pretend that you are fighting for love or freedom.
Gays just want the same lollypops as the hetero ones from their daddy.
There is nothing wrong with that but don't pretend it to be something which it isn't.

Originally posted by Ookie

Originally posted by AshOnMyTomatoes
reply to post by MentorsRiddle

 

That's really what you think, is it? Do I have to be the guy who points out interracial marriage, suffrage for women, the end of slavery, Jim Crow laws, etc?

The majority is not always right.

Why do I have to be the guy to point out that anyone who has a brain can see now that those laws were good and kept things working well? It is no coincidence that our modern society is what it is only after we repealed these laws. Their removal has done more to destroy the fabric of this nation than any other event or cause.

It was a bad idea to end slavery. The wrongs that were done to blacks could have been addressed and solved without removing the institution of slavery. It was the absolute king of all stupid ideas to end it. Before, blacks were fed, housed, clothed and made to do productive work. We still feed, house, and clothe them, but we get nothing but crime and mayhem for our efforts. How can any thinking individual see this as being good? Jim Crow laws mitigated the damage from the stupid decision to end slavery and the laws worked. You prefer the mayhem we have now?

Women voting? How has that helped anything? All I can see is we now elect presidents based on looks and not character. Women voting has given us monsters like FDR, Clinton, Bush, and now Obama. They have voted with their hearts and feelings and that is a certain way to ruin a country.

And then interracial marriage......how can a compassionate human think it is a good idea to make mulattoes? The poor creatures get to be rejected by both races. I know, I was young and stupid once and made one. The poor kid is struggling with his identity and it was wrong of me to have sex with is black mother. No person should be put through that.

I think it is clear in hindsight that we have destroyed what made this nation great by being wusses and allowing rights to people that should not have them. It has to stop. We can't fix it, it is too late to go back. But really, we do not need to make it any worse.

I salute you just for your courage to post this post.
Really.

Oops! Double post. See below.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Technically it is disfunctional because the sex organs are for procreation and
same sex attraction takes that out of the equation. But a 'disfunction' isn't an
excuse to preclude someone from the civil right of marriage.

I'd say we are ALL mutations from the original human.

If someone is tone deaf - - they have a dysfunction.
If someone is blind - they have a dysfunction.

Both those who are tone deaf and blind can legally marry - - as long as they are straight.

And - as far as I know those with Down Syndrome (as long as they understand consent) can legally marry - - if they are straight.

A dysfunction certainly is not reason enough to deny marriage.

reply to post by deepankarm

Originally posted by deepankarm
It's just a pathetic idea to force the meaning of marriage on others...

You mean like saying marriage is between a man and a woman and its purpose is to procreate? Because there seem to be PLENTY of people forcing THAT meaning of marriage on others...

Just don't pretend that you are fighting for love or freedom.

I am fighting for love and freedom. I'm not pretending in the least. Just curious, what do you think my motivation is for advocating it? (Keep in mind I am a 54-year-old woman in a 20-year, VERY happy, heterosexual marriage)

Originally posted by deepankarm
I salute you just for your courage to post this post.

That's not courage. It's fear and ignorance.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by Ookie

 

PLEASE tell me you are being sarcastic.

Originally posted by Annee
10% of the population are Left Handed. Same percentage for homosexuals.

My school psychology books say 1-2% are homosexual.
If you add in bi-sexual and transgender etc etc, that raises to 4%.

1-2% represents those who openly admit homosexuality

The 10% comes from the Kinsey report.

I think its going to be a while before a real accurate account can be made. I'm betting it will be higher then estimated.

Yes - how old is the study that says 1-2%? Even 10-15 years ago, a HUGE majority of gays were afraid to come out. The trend of coming out in the last 10 years has increased, but you have to know that there are still many, many gays that remain "in the closet". I think I read somewhere that it's estimated homosexuality in animal species represents about 10% of the total. Maybe I can find a link. If true, that helps the "it's part of nature" argument. If the same percentage exists in the animal species as in the human species - that has to be more than just coincidence.

Originally posted by Annee
A dysfunction certainly is not reason enough to deny marriage.

Of course not. If it were then no one would be getting married.
I'm just repeating what it says in the evolutionary psychology books from college.

Originally posted by kaylaluv
how old is the study that says 1-2%?

The studies I'm quoting from are 8 years old.

However, here is something that is one year old - it's 4 percent
The New Civil Rights Movement

A new study by The Williams Institute of the UCLA School of Law asks, “How many people are lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender?,” and shows that almost nine million American adults – close to 4% of the American adult population — identify as gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgender, and breaks down those numbers. The study, released today, examined five American and an additional four international population surveys and found, “women are substantially more likely than men to identify as bisexual,” and that 11% of the population, more than 25 million Americans, acknowledge some same-gender sexual attraction.

The study shows that an estimated .3% of Americans are transgender. Additionally, the Williams study shows 3.5% of American adults are gay, lesbian, or bisexual, including 1.8% of American adults who are bisexual.

And from the same source ... discussing that 10% figure -

Gates says the 10% figure “is from a passage in a 1948 Kinsey book that reads, “”Ten percent of males are more or less exclusively homosexual for at least three years between the ages of 16 and 55″…even if he had used population-based data (which he did not), that is hardly a statement suggesting that 10% of the population identifies as LGBT. The truth about 10% was that it was a brilliant political strategy as a figure that was large enough to “matter” but hopefully not so large as to threaten the general population. The fact that the number remains so popular is a testament to that brilliance. Kinsey was a notable scholar and scientist, but he never made a population-based estimate of the size of the LGBT community.”

ETA
Gay Americans Make Up 4% of the Population

What Percentage of the Population is Gay?

It may be that no one will ever know for sure. To some people, homosexuality is a matter of perception and definition. Furthermore, many people have trouble admitting their homosexuality to themselves, much less to a researcher.

It's probably between 2 and 20%. But I don't care if it's .001%. They are still US citizens and should have all the rights and privileges the rest of us do.

A very few percentage of Americans have seizures (like myself), but we are entitled to the same rights as everyone else. The percentage matters NOT.