Depopulation is probably the answer. Let’s face facts however as unpleasant as they be. What are t

Okay, here goes.... I believe in population control and eugenics. Now, for all those who want to respond "Start with yourself", yeah, no. How about a rational and civilized discussion on the topic? I, for one will never advocate the death of any individual, let alone any persons in any number. So anyone saying, even implying the sentiment of "just kill yourself if you feel that way" will be promptly ignored.

Now, my beliefs are that we, as a species do not need to propagate 'just because we can'. I am not even adverse to a family having multiple children... so long as they can take care of them. It is a matter of responsibility. And until the day comes that not a single child dies of starvation or dies due to lack of medical care, you will not change my mind.

Next is eugenics. I only believe in voluntary eugenics. Any responsible couple should be able to procreate as well as anybody else. I do not believe in forced sterilization either. That is just wrong. To those that say breeding by choice is wrong, I say breeding by beer is just as wrong.

So, in a nutshell... No forced death of any living individual. A more responsible view on procreation. Provide equal health and sustenance to those living. Voluntary eugenics by those willing.

So, hit me with your best shot... and let's be civilized.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Why don't you depopulate and help us all ?

reply to post by SimonPeter


You didn't read the thread did you? I'm not calling for depopulation...I just see it coming our way. Actually looking for realistic ideas to stop it. But I also doubt that those in charge of our various nations will implement them.

Originally posted by mileysubet

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

Nope.

Overpopulation is a myth. There is PLENTY of a arable land to grow the food we need to sustain our current population growth. There is PLENTY of renewable energy sources that can be used in order for each nation to achieve energy independance.

This myth is perpetuated by eugenecists and globalists who want you to believe that we need to fight amongs each other for a piece of the pie, when there's plenty of pie to go around, if it's split up properly.

The problem with these two areas is that they are currently controlled by big corporate entities who have no interest in making food or energy cheap, renewable and available to all.

There's no money in that. So they perpetuate these lies to keep the status quo the way it is.

~Tenth

Do you have any facts to back up your claim?

Do you own the internet?

In 2008, the world's total arable land amounted to 13,805,153 km², whereas 48,836,976 km² was classified as "agricultural land." [3]

Source

Top 10 Renewable Energy Sources

Don't mind #1, they are a bit crazy on that.

In any case, do your own research, I had to in order to realize that over population is a myth perpetuated by those who control you in order to further the idea that you are a slave.

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


"In 2008, the world's total arable land amounted to 13,805,153 km², whereas 48,836,976 km² was classified as "agricultural land."

Are those numbers actually backwards? Arable land means that you can farm it. Which is the same as agricultural land.

That one has me going...huh?

reply to post by TDawgRex

ar·a·ble/ˈarəbəl/Adjective: (of land) Used or suitable for growing crops.

Agricultural land (also agricultural area) denotes the land suitable for agricultural production, both crops and livestock. It is one of...

The definitions are similar, but different. The arable land is suitable for crop growth and other means of food production like hydroponic growing or fisheries for example.

The Agricultural land is more broad spectrum, incompassing livestock and other means to produce food.

~Tenth

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

ar·a·ble/ˈarəbəl/Adjective: (of land) Used or suitable for growing crops.

Agricultural land (also agricultural area) denotes the land suitable for agricultural production, both crops and livestock. It is one of...

The definitions are similar, but different. The arable land is suitable for crop growth and other means of food production like hydroponic growing or fisheries for example.

The Agricultural land is more broad spectrum, incompassing livestock and other means to produce food.

~Tenth

Thank you for the clarification, but the two terms seem to go hand in hand. So would the larger number of acres be the actual proper number? Or can they be combined?

However, as was pointed out earlier, getting those crops/foodstuffs to a starving populace still seems to be the problem.

Originally posted by TDawgRex

Thank you for the clarification, but the two terms seem to go hand in hand. So would the larger number of acres be the actual proper number? Or can they be combined?

However, as was pointed out earlier, getting those crops/foodstuffs to a starving populace still seems to be the problem.

Yes the larger number would encompass all the available land that could be used for food production, whether it be livestock or actual crops.

Thing is though, you dont' need all that land to produce all the food.

For example:

1 Million Pounds Of Food On 3 Acres



So taking this model; moving the food is actually a non issue cause you would set these up in each community. The problem with our current system of food production is that we move too much food around.

We have to pick it before it's ripe and mostly it rippens on the way, which is why out of season fruit and vegetables are so crappy and bad for you.

Having local grow operations such as these, where the community gets involved and purchases all their food in a market type environment would greatly improve efficiency.

~Tenth

One problem is land usage, we care more about lawns than feeding ourselves! earthobservatory.nasa.gov...

There are approximately 15,641,597,556 habitable acres of land in the world ¼ of an acre can easily support a family of 4 (www.ehow.com...)
There are currently around 7,000,000,000 people; by my math those acres could sustain 62,566,390,224 people…

Overpopulation is a problem because people are lazy and do not sustain themselves but rely on the state or others through commerce to provide for them or they live and choose to live in over-crowded or hostile environments…

Other sources
www.learner.org...
www.learner.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
pages.prodigy.net...

reply to post by TDawgRex


Have you read any of Ervin Lazlo's books????

Do you read?

You could fit every single man, woman and child on the planet in the state of Texas and not have them shoulder to shoulder, that is how big Texas is.

Now, who eats all the meat (one cow eats enough grain that could feed 25 people every day).....I know, I grew up on a dairy ranch that also had sheep and chickens.

America and Western Europe consume most of the world's resouces. China doesn't even come close yet but as they adopt our decadent lifestyle that will change and we will really be in trouble.

You have some people that everyone says "Oh it's fine and dandy" (like Madonna) that have so much money they couldn't spend it in 350 lifetimes (she's worth 350 million USD) and yet you have 28 thousand people starving to death with no access to clean water each and every day................95% of them are children.

We spend over 51% of American tax dollars on the military alone.

WTFU.

Want to depopulate........................start with you and yours, the planet is in dire need of fewer people that make the type of statement and have the mindset you do.

BTW: Do you call yourself a Christian???? Just curious.

I won't even get into abortions which is murder because people can't or won't use birth control.

The entire human race is allowing our planet to be run by a bunch of psychopathic insane narcissists.

Planet Earth would be better off with one less entire species in my opinion - man.

Okay, got my flame suit on..........fire away folks, most of you I could give a hoot about anyway, as most of you are selfish, clueless and apathetic service to selfers.

We as a species are ruining our once beautiful planet and not even aware that a few elite have manipulated the rest of us to hand over 3/4 of the pie to a few while the rest of us fight over the remaining 1/4 left over........and we allow it, condone it, even applaud it.

We abort our own flesh and blood, send our sons and daughters off to war over oil for the bankers, bail out the bankers, elect corrupt officials to mismanage our government because most of us vote party prejudice and don't research - we're too busy yacking endlessly on our cell phones, playing our video games, watching American Idol or reading Harry Potter novels.

Ervin Lazlo's two books, "Chaos Point The World At The Crossroads" and "Chaos Point 2012 And Beyond" are both books I wager not one ATS member other than me has or has read.

You folks keyboard but don't read, don't research.

You want space brothers to come down and fix our broken planet...............ain't gonna happen.

Apathy, pide, slouth and stupidity have signed humanity's death warrant.

Not to mention our spiritual growth has gone down the toilet but our technological growth has sky rocketed. That's a dangerous combination - like giving a two year old a lighted flame thrower in a warehouse full of gasoline.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I saw that vid here on ATS a while back and saved it. I was amazed by the ingenuity of the operation. But isn't he also having problems with the government as well?

So, there is a solution to the food problem if it can be implemented on a wide scale.

But the energy thing is still a conumdrum. Your list poses a few problems. Production of many of the renewable energy techs also produces a lot of toxic material. Even the Bio mass. And they also take up a large space to produce the energy that is required to keep the current society running.

I think the fix is to get people to downsize their lifestyle (Mainly the industrilzed nations). I've always wondered why two people with one kid need a McMansion. It has to be ego.

If I could afford a couple of acres and a small house, I would be quite happy. Slowly getting there.

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by TDawgRex

 

Have you read any of Ervin Lazlo's books????

Do you read?

You could fit every single man, woman and child on the planet in the state of Texas and not have them shoulder to shoulder, that is how big Texas is.

Now, who eats all the meat (one cow eats enough grain that could feed 25 people every day).....I know, I grew up on a dairy ranch that also had sheep and chickens.

America and Western Europe consume most of the world's resouces.

You have some people that everyone says "Oh it's fine and dandy" (like Madonna) that have so much money they couldn't spend it in 350 lifetimes (she's worth 350 million USD) and yet you have 28 thousand people starving to death with no access to clean water each and every day................95% of them are children.

We spend over 51% of American tax dollars on the military alone.

WTFU.

Want to depopulate........................start with you and yours, the planet is in dire need of fewer people that make the type of statement and have the mindset you do.

BTW: Do you call yourself a Christian???? Just curious.

I won't even get into abortions which is murder because people can't or won't use birth control.

The entire human race is allowing our planet to be run by a bunch of psychopathic insane narcissists.

Planet Earth would be better off with one less entire species in my opinion - man.

Okay, got my flame suit on..........fire away folks, most of you I could give a hoot about anyway, as most of you are selfish, clueless and apathetic service to selfers.

Another knee jerk reaction. Another who didn't bother or feel that they had to read the thread.

wow.

Crops

In America alone we could gain 10,000 square miles of arable land by closing various national parks, parts of parks, state parks, etc. I love nature, and what national parks bring to us in the form of beautiful landscapes and untouched wilderness is spectacular. The U.S. government owns nearly 30% of the land in the U.S. (almost 650 million acres of land [2.63 million square kilometers]) But a lot of it just sits there being pretty, instead of productive. How many other millions of square miles of land could do the same for other countries?

Power:

Wind, water, thorium reactors, methanol, HEMP DIESEL for auto fuel. All of the aforementioned are better and cleaner than oil and coal, which is a non-renewable resource.

War is very rarely ever the answer for anything. There have been three necessary wars in the history of the U.S.: the Revolutionary War, WWI, and WWII. The last two were actually more inevitable than necessary. The Earth, if its resources are used wisely, could likely easily sustain three times its population. The problem is that humans tend to squander resources to make a buck.

Nonsense OP.

In America we use over 50% of our corn crop to make ethanol, another 25% for other uses and only 25% is actually used as corn.

All the people on the planet could fit inside Texas.

There is plenty of room for more people, but the top 1% just doesn't want to share.

Originally posted by TDawgRex
reply to post by SimonPeter

 

You didn't read the thread did you? I'm not calling for depopulation...I just see it coming our way. Actually looking for realistic ideas to stop it. But I also doubt that those in charge of our various nations will implement them.

Don't worry, the earth is self cleaning.

Anytime we overpopulate an area disease comes along and resets the ecosystem.

We are overdo for a big pandemic, partly due to modern medicine and partly to blame modern medicine. Too many physicians prescribe antibiotics or antivirals before they even know what the patient has. This has built up a resistance to the drugs and soon nothing will work for some common viral infections.

I'm amazed that India doesn't have more epidemics after visiting there.

But globally, we are not overpopulated.

Originally posted by JibbyJedi
Well you and Ted Turner can lead us all by example and reduce your carbon foot prints 1st.

We can farm vertically saving lots of land space.
We can use already known techniques like solar panels on all homes for energy.
We can educate the population in the right direction, not the Jersey Shore direction.
We can stop dividing and conquering overseas and use "our" money to help ourselves.

Just a few ideas. Oh, and we can physically remove the problem politicians and CEOs causing these worsening problems.

This is exactly what I was going to say but then you said it.
Ted Turner should be the first to kick start any type of depopulation agenda in being carried out as well as everyone that agrees with this garbage. He can even make it dramatic and air it on TNT or TBS even. "The Turner Family Flys A Rocket Into the Sun". Wow! Imagine how much money the people that run his company would make.

I have many thoughts on this
First off, necessity is the mother of invention...I am wondering if we will invent up (aka, put massive pressure on our industries to get into space, on mars, get to the colonization efforts, or even start undersea habitations), or invent booms (war)...but either way, ya..something is going to have to change about the way we are doing things.

I understand the overpopulation is a myth thing, but in order for you to understand that argument, you have to look at the people as not people but wise herd animals that will not waste nor want...solar energy, efficient homes, no ordering 4 times the standard size food orders, etc..basically, no...we are not that type of people...we are overconsumers, greedy oil addicts, and little will change about that.

Which leads us to a final solution of population reduction for the short term...this however should not be done through death or anything..rather, through breeding control (everyone gets a fertility inhibitor).

Next issue rapidly coming at us that will compound the problem is longevity..what happens when the human race goes from 80 years to 800 years average lifespan...

Concessions will have to be made. Technology though is going to be the thing that resolves all these issues...so, a heavy investing of our innovations is required for long term solutions

reply to post by TDawgRex


It doesn't take arable land to grow anything, though there is plenty of it, and if ecofarms where the norm where everyone had 1/3 acre for their private homes and gardens, and then there was an additional 20-100 acres to have orchard, vineyard and greenhouses, etc, and kids parks, playgrounds, pool, commercial kitchen, and set up really well, for whatever number was there, no costs at all.

And different stripes, some city townhouses and places for higher education and elderly, and lots of green spaces and gardens everywhere, good services for delivery for those in need.

Wow it would be nice. And more places than needed always so its easy to move around at will. And upkeep a collective thing.

But even houses, like earthships grow bananas inside them, and have fish. That doesnt take Grade A land. When we grew up, the orchard was the same lesser grade that the gravel pit was on, yet was enriched by so many fruit droppings and nutrients, that it grew anything you wanted it to, however, I must say, it took a pick axe at times to get things planted.

They can grow gardens on rooftops. They can make subterranean greenhouses and they don't even need to limit them to our conventional green houses, but can do so with full spectrum light systems, and hydroponics, without soil even.

It takes commitment to justice and equality. Not greed.

reply to post by Unity_99


Ifs and hopes
and none of it in the reality of the situation.

Thats the issue, isn't it.

If we all just decided to walk instead of use cars, we would solve the energy and obesity crisis at the same time...and maybe even help out with the economy (more shoes and sweatpants sales)

but we won't..so why even spend much time considering it..

reply to post by TDawgRex


CROPS

GMO crops are an abomination, they are created with viruses.
Tests in mice show organ failure in older mice who have been exposed to such food stuffs.
It is unsurprising to note that around the third and fourth generation of mice
exposed to such products end up sterile, this is definitely done on purpose.

We wouldn't need herbicides and pesticides if we grew food in farmscrapers.
Granted, this is but a temporary solution to the rising population problem,
however I must point out that those who spread like wildfire are of non Aryan origin.
In fact, the white man is on the decline while everyone else seems to be mimicking bunny rabbits.

If the world was divided up between race and nationality, as it should be,
instead of this stupid notion of international communism, destruction of norms and culture,
and the creation of the new soviet man as neo-communists of today like to say,
we would witness nature take it's course. A nation which cannot control it's growth
will inevitably suffer from starvation. That is the check and balance.
If certain countries abuse their resources to such a point as to make their land uninhabitable,
then it is their own damn fault and we should not accept any of them in our own countries,
because they will just do the same all over again here. If you are looking for
total collapse of worldwide civilization based off of peak everything from food, to oil, to energy,
globalization is a good way to go.
However, if you plan on surviving anytime soon, protectionism is the way to go.
Close the borders I say. Don't even get me started about corporate monopolies and government structure...

Power

Two quick solutions.

Tesla Tower concept that taps into the electromagnetic sphere of the earth,
the concept of wireless electricity transfer now enables all to have unlimited electricity, for free.

Don't wanna go that way huh? Geo-thermal is another long term solution, Iceland is doing it.


Oil

No one talks bout it, but we are running out.

Third generation bio-fuels, make plastics from algae.
This way we can treat sewage water as well instead
of just dumping it into the ocean like the cretins that we are.

But how will we power our cars? Hydrogen, made at the gas stations,
powered by the unlimited cheap electricity mentioned earlier.

War is naturally the best solution to the overpopulation problem.
It's direct, and it filters out the weak from the strong.

Unless of course we fund space exploration and colonization,
then we could expand infinitely. I prefer this solution better.