Obesity is a Form of Cancer

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by Maslo

 

fat cells in (primary) obesity are still safely under the influence of regulatory factors

Really? Safely? Ref?

It is the mainstream opinion, do I really have to source it? But here is one:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Most cases of obesity are caused primarily by imbalance in energy intake and expenditure, not mutations of regulatory genes as in cancer.

reply to post by Maslo

It is the mainstream opinion, do I really have to source it?

Yes, yours is the engineered mainstream meme. I'm hoping at least some ATS Members might question accepted assumptions, do their own research and think for themselves.

But here is one:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

Most cases of obesity are caused primarily by imbalance in energy intake and expenditure, not mutations of regulatory genes as in cancer.

This 2008 study addresses obesity in the developed world only, and tries to verify the assumption that 'increased caloric intake and decreased activity levels' are solely responsible for the Obesity Pandemic. It is incredibly flawed. Obesity is pandemic - people in undeveloped nations suffering from malnutrition and starvation are obese - this study does NOT explain such apparent contradictions.

FYI - the next year, in 2009, research from Wayne University proved that a common cold virus called Ad36 caused fat cells to store more fat.

The researchers found that Ad36 infection increased fat storage in cells .... Ad36 did this by turning on genes known to be involved in an adipogenic (fat-producing) cascade, including C/EBP, PPAR2, aP2 and G3PDH.

What this means is Ad36 strongly induces weight gain...

The next year, in 2010, other researchers like those at the University of California, San Diego School of Medicine confirmed Wayne University's findings:

ScienceDaily (Sep. 20, 2010) — The emerging idea that obesity may have an infectious origin gets new support in a cross-sectional study by University of California, San Diego School of Medicine researchers who found that children exposed to a particular strain of adenovirus were significantly more likely to be obese.

Previous research had already linked at least 9 other microbial infections to obesity. Granted, obesity - like other chronic disease - is multifactorial, and the chemicals we're exposed to daily increase our risk.

Like obesity, cancer is being linked more and more to infections - and infections DO affect gene function. Your - and the mainstream's - exclusive focus on victims' culpability begs the issue of protein mutations (for example), and the epigenetic effects caused by infection.

Looking at the whole picture threatens the "global economy," and puts people before profit; blaming the victims supports Eugenics Policies. Hmm. Wonder why they're pushing the meme.

reply to post by soficrow


I'm not Obese, but I am overweight. A lot. I agree with you that food is medicine...but what kind of food? Is it true that consuming any form of animal fat (meat, milk, eggs, etc) is bad? Or this is a myth? I try to avoid GMO as much as I can but unless you grow your own food you can never be 100% certain.

Regardless of whatever else you might want to present as reasons for obesity other than it being just a result of bad diet or *known* causes otherwise, you're still not presenting anything that justifies calling it a cancer. What sort of conspiracy, scandal or cover-up are you advocating here? Do you have any evidence? Have you taken your thoughts to an oncology forum for consideration?

There are all sorts of things that could cause obesity *of sorts* in people. Most of it though is just simply bad habits and an unwillingness to take responsibility for it isn't going to magically turn it into a disease.

Where I live, people like to think that alcoholism is a physical disease too. It may be for some slim fraction of the population, but at the end of the day it's a combination of bad public policy, learned habits from past generations, misplaced values, and an excuse to lose control of oneself. I see the "obesity epidemic" as the same phenomenon.

reply to post by albertabound

I'm not Obese, but I am overweight. A lot. I agree with you that food is medicine...but what kind of food? Is it true that consuming any form of animal fat (meat, milk, eggs, etc) is bad? Or this is a myth? I try to avoid GMO as much as I can but unless you grow your own food you can never be 100% certain.

Go for the phytochemicals - LOTS of greens. Drink green tea, use turmeric for curries or tea with black pepper and honey (yuck), add cinnamon and chocolate to everything you can.

Unfortunately, animals' fat stores all kinds of nasty chemicals and diseases - and growth hormones that target fat cells. The evidence suggests these make us fat - so moderation at least, well balanced with other, healthier efforts.

Check out this article for starters:

Obesity: Often An Infectious Disease

In the book we attribute obesity mainly to food toxins and malnutrition. Both are well attested as causes of obesity in animals:

The easiest way to induce obesity in animals is to feed them a carb toxin and a fat toxin – e.g. wheat, fructose, or alcohol with polyunsaturated fats or hydrogenated trans-fats. ....

[NOTE] …there are thin diabetics and obese non-diabetics. How is it that the same cause can produce different diseases?

One thing the adenovirus work is telling us is that the nature of one’s chronic infections may determine how bad diets translate into disease. Toxic and malnourishing diets make disease inevitable, but which disease depends on which pathogens happen to be around to exploit the bad diet and weakened immunity.

I never really cared for debating obesity ... because Obesity to me is linked to 1 thing FOOD and/or genetically modified food.

Organic foods baby! if you have the cash ...but a good workout routine never hurt anyone

reply to post by CosmicEgg

you're still not presenting anything that justifies calling it a cancer.

In obesity, fat cells grow out of control - just like in cancer. The processes include hypertrophy, hyperplasia and angiogenesis - just like in cancer. The facts justify considering obesity as a form of cancer.

What sort of conspiracy, scandal or cover-up are you advocating here? Do you have any evidence?

Our food, air and water are totally contaminated with disease-causing agents that work together to create all kinds of chronic disease, including obesity. Our corporate-government protects profits over people, lets everyone get sick, and then identifies victims as Eugenics "targets."

Here's something I wrote back in 2004 - it's still relevant. Maybe more relevant - and provides evidence of strategic legal positioning.

FAST FOOD AND FAST MOVES: DEFINE “OBESITY-RELATED.”

You’re in good shape. Your health problem isn’t “obesity-related,” right? Wrong.

For medical insurance purposes most ‘modern’ health conditions are defined as “obesity-related” – not because they’re ‘caused by’ obesity, but because they’re ‘associated with’ weight gain. The weight gain usually comes after the disease has progressed. It’s a later-stage symptom, not an early marker.

Only about 20% of Americans are obese but over 65% have “obesity-related” health conditions. The added 45% may be in good shape but technically, their conditions are “obesity-related.” Blood vessel diseases, high blood pressure, diabetes and many types of cancer are on the “obesity-related” list, for example.

Swiss Re, the world's largest life and health reinsurer, spells it out in an April 2004 Report called “Too big to ignore: the impacts of obesity on mortality trends.”

People should be living longer, says the study. Instead, the opposite is true. Modern diseases now progress to the weight gain stage more often, and more quickly to disability and early death.

Once considered “ailments of civilization,” obesity-related diseases are epidemic world wide and still spreading. “Obesity is now a major public health concern world wide,” says Swiss Re’s April Report. Rates range between 10% to 25% in industrial countries and, “In the developing world, the prevalence of obesity is around 5% and is expected to rise in the future.”
As a result, the life insurance industry’s survival is on the table says the study.

Research shows that personal choice is only one of many factors contributing to obesity-related diseases – and not the underlying cause. Undiagnosed chronic infections are implicated, caused by unregulated infectious microbes contaminating food, and chemical additives that worsen established infections. Cost-cutting leads the medical profession to spread infectious microbes. Government inaction allows the situation to continue and get worse.

The medical insurance industry determined long ago that early medical conditions predispose people to later, more serious, and only seemingly unrelated medical problems. The industry responded by changing policy terms and raising rates based on a new “risk profile.”

Swiss Re says life insurance providers need to use the risk profile created for medical insurance. The Report warns life insurance companies not to compete for business by lowering rates, but rather to raise premiums for people who have health conditions ‘associated with’ weight gain and now, early death.
“Governments, the medical profession, food manufacturers and consumers… need to be alert to this emerging risk and play a role in confronting it,” Swiss Re advises. Consumers pay the price when governments, the medical profession and the food industry ignore known risks.

Bill H.R. 339, the “Personal Responsibility in Food Consumption Act,” skips right over Swiss Re’s recommendation that “governments, the medical profession and food manufacturers” take responsibility. Instead, the Act lays all the blame on consumers.

In effect, the new Law says health conditions ‘associated with’ weight gain are “self-inflicted.” Public health campaigns support the charge, using taxpayers money.





.....continued

..........continued from above





As it’s written: “The purpose of this Act is to allow Congress, State legislatures, and regulatory agencies to determine appropriate laws, rules, and regulations to address the problems of weight gain, obesity, and health conditions associated with weight gain or obesity.” (Section 2: Purpose)

In other words, the Act claims political authority to address health conditions ‘associated with’ weight gain – and legally re-defines the ‘obesity-related’ epidemic as a political issue, not a medical matter.

It’s a strategic move that positions for the next play – by changing the playing field.

Section 4 (5) (B) (i) protects the food industry from lawsuits for food-borne infections caused by ‘unregulated’ infectious agents, which blocks ‘frivolous lawsuits’ for ‘obesity-related’ diseases caused by ‘unregulated’ microbes. But this clause is just a military-style redundancy. Diagnostic tests aren’t on the program.

The “Personal Responsibility in Health Act” says disease is a political matter, not a medical one. Health is a personal responsibility. Sickness is self-inflicted. End of story.

This Act denies the real problem. Obesity-related diseases are epidemic world wide and spreading; the food industry and medical profession both play a role in spreading ‘unregulated’ infectious microbes that cause the diseases, which are defined as “obesity-related” on a technicality. By denying the true situation, the Act blocks efforts to find a genuine solution.

Bill H.R. 339 is not a solution. It does not protect Americans. Instead, this Act blames innocent people – goes well beyond race in profiling America’s “visually identifiable suspects” – and targets sick Americans as the latest “Enemies of the State.”

65% of Americans suffer so-called “obesity-related” diseases. That’s a majority.

Bill H.R. 339 passed the House in March – it’s # 463 on the Senate Calendar, scheduled for consideration on Monday, April 19, 2004. The Bill will be Law if it passes the Senate. Bill S 1428, a back-up called the “Commonsense Consumption Act of 2003” is waiting in the wings.

reply to post by soficrow


They grow out of control because people stuff themselves with poisons. They have the choice not to. They can eat fresh foods, natural foods. It's not necessary to go low-fat (bad idea any day of the week) or to restrict sodium (another bad idea) or any of the other things people think will make them healthy. Taking food to your mouth less frequently and consuming much smaller quantities is where you start. Don't start calling it a disease. The disease is that people eat incessantly and live horrible lifestyles. Self-control and self-discipline will cure what ails most of the obese globally. You will always get fat when you eat crap. It's a known fact and just common sense besides.

reply to post by troubleshooter

There was no obesity in Bergen-Belsen.

Studies show famines are followed by obesity epidemics in victims.

The causes are multifactorial - and starvation apparently leads to precancerous cell changes. Go figure.

reply to post by DeReK DaRkLy

Originally posted by DeReK DaRkLy
reply to post by soficrow

 

Can you prove it? Can you provide any evidence to show that "the cell formations/deformations in cancer happen for very different reasons"?

Umm.. because all fat isn't cancerous and all cancer isn't in fat cells. Cells are not mutated in fat production. Fat is normal and healthy in the correct amount...

Point being, fat production in obesity is NOT normal or healthy or occurring in the correct amount.

Cancer is an anomaly that happens to a cell, but fat production is a normal process.

Fat production in obesity is not normal. That's why it's called obesity.

All they have in common is that in both cancer and obesity there is an excess occurrence.

Bingo.

Originally posted by soficrow


Only about 20% of Americans are obese but over 65% have “obesity-related” health conditions. The added 45% may be in good shape but technically, their conditions are “obesity-related.” Blood vessel diseases, high blood pressure, diabetes and many types of cancer are on the “obesity-related” list, for example.

Doesn't this have something to do with where the fat is concentrated? I know that people who carry their fat primarily in their belly usually have the highest incidents of obesity-related diseases. They may not even be considered obese, but if their "waist-to-butt" circumference ratio is off - that's when you have problems. Now, there may be more people carrying excess fat in their belly for whatever reasons.

reply to post by soficrow



Thanks. I recently started a herb/vegetable garden and am well into the process of eliminating animal fat from my diet. I have started drinking almond milk and I love it. I still have intense cravings for meat sometimes...but I guess I will have to slowly eliminate it.

reply to post by soficrow

Obesity is pandemic - people in undeveloped nations suffering from malnutrition and starvation are obese

People suffering from malnutrition and starvation are obese? Citation needed for such contradictory statement.

FYI - the next year, in 2009, research from Wayne University proved that a common cold virus called Ad36 caused fat cells to store more fat.

Interesting research, but far from proving your point. Various factors can contribute to the individual risk of obesity, but the main cause is still unbalanced diet. There are many people with Ad36 strain that are not obese - because they eat healthy. Its maybe a contributing factor, or one that can make obesity worse - but its not a cause.

And similarly, not all cell proliferation (even induced by viruses) is cancer. It must be irreversible and uncontrolled for it to be cancer. From your linked article, it appears the virus upregulates the pre-adipose cells proliferation, but they are still under control, do not proliferate autonomously and always develop into normal adipocytes. It appears to be epi-genetic, not caused by irreversible mutation in the regulatory genes (deactivation of anti-oncogenes, activation of pro-oncogenes) like in cancer.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by soficrow

 

Obesity is pandemic - people in undeveloped nations suffering from malnutrition and starvation are obese

People suffering from malnutrition and starvation are obese? Citation needed for such contradictory statement.

It's all in the spin.

June 4, 2012
Homeless and Overweight: Obesity Is the New Malnutrition

A new survey finds that one in three homeless people in Boston are clinically obese, a number that casts in relief the strange reality of food in the 21st century United States.

Not long ago, malnourishment was embodied by emaciation. Now it’s far more likely to be hidden in folds of fat.

....The findings are the latest and most dramatic illustration of what’s called the “hunger-obesity paradox,” a term coined in 2005 by neurophysiologist Lawrence Scheier to describe the simultaneous presence of hunger and obesity.

August 4, 2005
Obesity and malnutrition exist side-by-side

While nutritional status has improved worldwide over the past fifty years, new nutrition-related problems have also emerged. In an article recently published in The Journal of Nutrition, Eileen Kennedy DSc, RD, dean of the Friedman School of Nutrition Science and Policy at Tufts University, offers an updated view of global nutrition. She describes how global demographic, epidemiological, and nutritional transitions have led to a unique situation in which food insecurity (uncertain or scarce access to safe and healthy food) exists side by side with problems of obesity and chronic nutrition-related diseases, even in the same household. Kennedy, former acting undersecretary at the United States Department of Agriculture, calls for new research to address this emerging and complex new problem.

Nutrient inadequacy in obese and non-obese youth.

Even though children may consume an excess of energy, they may not be meeting all of their micronutrient needs.

How Malnutrition Causes Obesity

Americans are overfed and undernourished. That's right, the most obese children and adults in the country are also the most nutritionally deficient...

EDIT TO ADD. RE: Famine and Obesity

The Great Chinese Famine that affected the Chongqing population during 1959–1961 leads to shorter and overweight females, and the former is a risk factor for increased BMI in Chongqing. Second, the famine seems to be producing shorter but slimmer males in Chongqing. Furthermore, toddler's and maternal's malnutrition during the famine had important late consequences on the health status.

FYI - the next year, in 2009, research from Wayne University proved that a common cold virus called Ad36 caused fat cells to store more fat.

Interesting research, but far from proving your point. Various factors can contribute to the individual risk of obesity, but the main cause is still unbalanced diet.

I'm not trying to prove my point, just pry open a few closed minds. "Unbalanced diet" is NOT proved to be the main cause of obesity - just ASSumed to be.

There are many people with Ad36 strain that are not obese - because they eat healthy. Its maybe a contributing factor, or one that can make obesity worse - but its not a cause.

Old science, old thinking.

…there are thin diabetics and obese non-diabetics. How is it that the same cause can produce different diseases?

One thing the adenovirus work is telling us is that the nature of one’s chronic infections may determine how bad diets translate into disease. Toxic and malnourishing diets make disease inevitable, but which disease depends on which pathogens happen to be around to exploit the bad diet and weakened immunity.

And similarly, not all cell proliferation (even induced by viruses) is cancer. It must be irreversible and uncontrolled for it to be cancer. From your linked article, it appears the virus upregulates the pre-adipose cells proliferation, but they are still under control, do not proliferate autonomously and always develop into normal adipocytes. It appears to be epi-genetic, not caused by irreversible mutation in the regulatory genes (deactivation of anti-oncogenes, activation of pro-oncogenes) like in cancer.

Good points, but debatable. Much obesity likely is epigenetic, but some genetic - and the definition of "cancer" does keep changing. I expect I'm out of space, so will get back. Thanks for the discussion.

reply to post by Maslo

reply to post by CosmicEgg



Here's a particularly good article on the obesity-malnutrition paradox, as it applies in Africa.

We Must Break the Vicious Cycle of Obesity, Malnutrition and Poverty

South Africa has some of the highest levels of obesity in the world, together with exceptionally high rates of poverty. These two issues are linked in a vicious, attritional cycle.

At first glance it appears counter-intuitive to consider that poverty and obesity could be associated. The fact is that poverty is intimately correlated to several non-communicable diseases. Numerous international studies have shown how obesity and its morbid fellow travellers, hypertension and diabetes, stalk the health of the poorest and most marginalised sectors of society.

As a developing nation, with increasing urbanisation, South Africa provides an exemplary case of the paradox of obesity amongst poverty. So how does this apparent contradiction exist and perpetuate?

When most people consider the effect of poverty, the initial image is of an emaciated, stunted figure, perhaps with a tell-tale red tint in her hair. While this is the most visible impact on children, research shows us that the long-term impacts of poverty are even more profound and menacing.

Poorly nourished infants have been found to be predisposed to obesity in later life. This occurs by interference with the genetic programming of the body, mainly in utero. If a mother does not receive adequate nutrition, the lot of her baby can become forever compromised. This is how the tragedy of poverty is perpetuated, inter-generationally. This occurs directly through malnutrition, as well as through other rather more sinister mechanisms. .....


This SACSIS article is licensed under a Creative Commons License by The South African Civil Society Information Service (www.sacsis.org.za).

reply to post by soficrow


This is still not addressing your assertion that obesity is a form of cancer. Make all the extrapolations to other things you like but you're not demonstrating any sort of relationship to the title of your thread.

When I say that people need to mind what and how they eat, to do it more mindfully and consciously, that will already go great lengths to correcting the greatest part of the obesity issue. People have become estranged from the foods they eat. Look at the food cultures around the world. Few anymore treat foods with any respect or understanding of the effects of food on our bodies. Food is less of a fuel and more of a medicine. We have corrupted that relationship so badly and that is where our pathology lies.

Focus, child. You might go somewhere with your thoughts.

reply to post by CosmicEgg

This is still not addressing your assertion that obesity is a form of cancer.

Correct. I was addressing your previous statement:

Don't start calling it a disease. The disease is that people eat incessantly and live horrible lifestyles.

Wrong. Look at obesity in Africa, and the long term effects of the Chinese famine:

Poorly nourished infants have been found to be predisposed to obesity in later life. This occurs by interference with the genetic programming of the body, mainly in utero. If a mother does not receive adequate nutrition, the lot of her baby can become forever compromised. This is how the tragedy of poverty is perpetuated, inter-generationally. This occurs directly through malnutrition, as well as through other rather more sinister mechanisms. .....

The Great Chinese Famine that affected the Chongqing population during 1959–1961 leads to shorter and overweight females, and the former is a risk factor for increased BMI in Chongqing. Second, the famine seems to be producing shorter but slimmer males in Chongqing. Furthermore, toddler's and maternal's malnutrition during the famine had important late consequences on the health status.

Focus, child. You might go somewhere with your thoughts.

Is that your mantra? You might ask yourself, child - why is it more comfortable for you to belittle obesity than to acknowledge that our industry and economy create real disease?

…The question of whether or not obesity is a form of cancer remains to be discussed. If you're ready to move along, you might consider the fact that Adipose Tissue (fat) is an Endocrine Organ. Then, consider this:

…most industrial foods carry residual levels of these chemicals and pesticides, many which are known endocrine disruptors. Endocrine or hormone disruptors are closely associated with serious negative health impacts, including obesity, diabetes and hypertension. This chemical exposure is known as our body burden.

So here we effectively have a double whammy. The poor eat food which predisposes them to poor health, on top of another, existing predisposition, genetically caused by malnutrition in the uterus or as infants.

Also, we need to agree on our defininition of "cancer" - a definition that has been dancing for decades. Previously, cancer was understood as a progression from hypertrophy and dysplasia to hyperplasia, to neoplasia and metaplasia. Now, the progression of cell changes leading to cancer are ignored, in part because the progression from pre-cancerous to cancerous is NOT a given. But the "definition" remains contentious, and the current usage might be more political/economic than scientific.

What Is Cancer?

Cancer is the general name for a group of more than 100 diseases. Although there are many kinds of cancer, all cancers start because abnormal cells grow out of control.

Defining Cancer

Cancer is a term used for diseases in which abnormal cells divide without control and are able to invade other tissues. Cancer cells can spread to other parts of the body through the blood and lymph systems.

Cancer is not just one disease but many diseases. There are more than 100 different types of cancer. Most cancers are named for the organ or type of cell in which they start - for example, cancer that begins in the colon is called colon cancer; cancer that begins in basal cells of the skin is called basal cell carcinoma.

Cancer types can be grouped into broader categories. The main categories of cancer include:

Carcinoma - cancer that begins in the skin or in tissues that line or cover internal organs.
Sarcoma ...begins in bone, cartilage, fat, muscle, blood vessels, or other connective or supportive tissue.
Leukemia ...starts in blood-forming tissue such as the bone marrow ...
Lymphoma and myeloma ...begin in the cells of the immune system.
Central nervous system cancers ...begin in the tissues of the brain and spinal cord.

Is it really such a leap to recognize adipose tissue cancer?

On a similar theme, check this out: Atherosclerosis: a cancer of the blood vessels?

reply to post by soficrow


If you're going to recreate definitions then fine. Let's not call any of it cancer because that's like calling everything autism. Let's drop the nomenclature for now.

Okay, if you want to address causes and solutions, let's talk about the effects of all things on our energetic fields. At the end of the day, that's where the real problem lies so we can take it straight to the brass tacks.

Our foods are polluted. We send our old, rotten, toxic foods to Africa under the guise of "aid". We also send our old, rotten, toxic energies with it. Our polluted land is producing polluted food that is then allowed to putrify in silos for years on end before being shipped to Africa for them to subsist on in very minuscule quantities. But they eat their own foods too which are polluted with years upon years of the fruits of war. Must be lovely. No wonder they're such a mess. We can pat ourselves on the back for being such humane Westerners. God bless us.

We aren't doing much better for ourselves though. Fast foods, processed foods, fusion cooking, Monsanto, DuPont, 3M, all the rest..... Big Tobacco, Big Oil, Big Pharma.... Big lies told to big suckers. We buy it all.

Nature gives us everything we need to survive in perfect health. We can easily follow a simple diet and rid ourselves of all the rubbish we've collected in our bodies for generations. It's not hard. It takes owning that responsibility though. It's not something you can pass to your doctor or to taking a pill. There's no need to look at products to develop, to buy, to sell. You just simply start eating cabbage for month or two. You eat apples for a month or two. Whatever is in season and only eat one thing at a time. You will get all you need. You will clean yourself of all that rot inside you and it doesn't cost a thing. Your food bills will decrease substantially, in fact. Your skin will clear up. Your hair will grow normally. Your diseases will disappear.

Learn simple things like the fundamentals of reflexology, lymph massage/drainage, abdominal massage and other things along those lines to assist in moving stuff out of your tissues.

Drink water, never sodas. Don't touch vitamin or mineral supplements. Use nothing extreme in any sense. Start walking. Practice qigong or taiji regularly. Be gentle with yourself. And practice being quiet.

Cancer is a vitamin B17 deficiency.
Obesity is just people overeating things they shouldnt have been eating in the first place.

Ironically, both are caused by western eating habbits...

Google Dr Edward Griffins, A World Without Cancer.

And eat your seeds!


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