Stand Your Ground? Texas man kills teacher over noise complaint.

Originally posted by thedeadlyrhythm
it is hilarious reading all these armchair comments from people who did not watch the video of the incident. i'm glad all you experts can weigh in on the 5 seconds or less you spent glancing over the article (which has a very obvious bias)

honestly no one has any business weighing in on something they did not even investigate at all.

that being said, watching the video, this is not a simple case. rodriguez (the man with the camera and legal ccw) was in the public street, not on danaher's property as many claim. danaher rolled up in a truck and 5 people jumped out and confronted him very aggressively. he warned them to stop and that he was armed and not to come closer, and they at first did stop.

then, as rodriguez is still on the phone with police, the 5 or so partygoers are screaming at him "you pulled a gun on the wrong motherf***er" and "dont think i wont come equal to you" as in, he would go get a gun of his own.

then at the end of the video, danaher literally charges at rodriguez while screaming wildly. people acting like kelly danaher acted responsibly and rodriguez is just this crazed gun nut are just uninformed and speaking ignorantly. if someone charges at a man with a gun who just warned him not to come any closer as he fears for his life an will defend it, he might just get shot. a crazy notion i know.

edit on 8-6-2012 by thedeadlyrhythm because: (no reason given)

Since you watched the video and you're now an expert and all, would you say Rodriguez had any place even approaching them in the first place since the police deemed the volume appropriate? No, he did not.
Not only should he have NOT approached them, he had no reason to wield his gun. None.

It was his vigilantism that caused someone to die. Not the other way around.

reply to post by getreadyalready


In the tape the victim does not appear to be armed. In fact he says he will go into the house and come back EQUAL to the killer. I do not see how the killer can claim he was fearing for his life unless he thinks that loud music will somehow kill him. The killer is the sole threat in the video.

Not that it will matter to the gun nuts, but here is some more background on the guy. Sounds like it was only a matter of time before he clocked out on someone. There was this guy in Cincinnati that decided to murder someone one time. He tried a very similar defense, cameras and all. It didn't work out too good for him. I suspect the same outcome for this loser. Oh here is the link. www.khou.com...

BTW, I am totally all the way 2nd amendment. I am just anti moron.

reply to post by samhouston1886


Too many people would use that for the wrong reasons.I've proven how easy it is to bait a man into a similar situation,then tap him down.He should not have pressed the issue like he chose to do.
It's not murder its manslaughter.He didn't go with the intent to kill but he misjudged the incident and did so.

reply to post by xEphon

Since you watched the video and you're now an expert and all, would you say Rodriguez had any place even approaching them in the first place since the police deemed the volume appropriate? No, he did not.
Not only should he have NOT approached them, he had no reason to wield his gun. None.

It was his vigilantism that caused someone to die. Not the other way around.

I carry my gun all the time, whether I need it or not.

I don't see anything wrong with walking down the street and asking my neighbor for a favor. My neighbors would probably oblige anything I asked. We have a LOT of loud parties at my house, and if a neighbor ever asked me to turn down the noise, I would either apologize and oblige, or I would explain the reason for the party and give them the assurance we would quiet down at an appropriate time, say midnight or so.

So, yes, he had plenty of right to carry his gun, and also ask them politely to turn down the music.

Have you seen the video? They attacked his politeness with rudeness, threats, aggressive posture, etc. He never lost his temper, and he never "brandished" his weapon until he was being approached aggressively. In fact, he even walked backwards and slightly retreated, and indicated he was leaving.

Early on in this thread, I said it was murder, and it might have been, but maybe it wasn't? We don't know the history of the neighborhood, and we don't know the background of the dead guy. Maybe he was a very dangerous and aggressive guy? Maybe he had attacked this man before? Maybe these parties happened every night?

should've just let the cops handle it and we wouldn't be here at each others throats...
both parties.

hindsight is 20/20

reply to post by Hessling


There are stupid people everywhere. And, yes some of them own guns, legally or otherwise. Any "stand your ground law" that I have ever read is really quite simple. All they say, generally is you have no duty to retreat from an attacker, before using deadly force. And they usually include some language that protects the one defending themselves from civil suits by the attackers family. Any law, stand your ground or simple self defense, gives nobody the right to enter a confrontation deliberately (as the aggressor) with a gun. Period. You can't initiate a confrontation and then claim self defense when attacked. This is the focal point of Zimmerman's problems. This case you cite here is painfully obvious as to it's outcome. A hothead with a gun, confronts a noisy neighbor and then claims stand your ground when attacked. Won't fly. He will be in jail soon enough, standing his ground every day. Guns are not the problem here. Stupidity is...

reply to post by Praetorius

he had already told them to turn it down, he wasn't surrounded during most - if any? - of the video (they were all gathered about 20 feet or so in front of him), and he had no reason to stick around other than to argue or instigate.

Exactly - what was he hoping to accomplish by approaching them with a gun and telling them again?
He took matters into his own hands, whereas he should have taken legal action. Stupid move.

Also, when I sleep I always have a fan running for ambient noise - a civil war outside couldn't wake me!

reply to post by Apheon


yeah, because his previous calls to the police really netted a result. I would have went and asked them to turn it down as well.

Originally posted by SM2
reply to post by Apheon

 

yeah, because his previous calls to the police really netted a result. I would have went and asked them to turn it down as well.

either way a child is without a father.

this is just tragic and a waste of life, egos came into play and a man lost his life on that night.

it is a tragedy that someone was killed, i will not argue that, it is a waste of life. However, had the deceased decided to be a good neighbor, the shooter would not have had to call the police, or go over and request the music be turned down. He made his decision, and had to reap the consequences. That is the way it works people, you are responsible for your own actions. If you decide to egg on an agitated armed person, chances are you get shot, and it is your own fault for being an idiot.

Originally posted by xEphon
Since you watched the video and you're now an expert and all, would you say Rodriguez had any place even approaching them in the first place since the police deemed the volume appropriate? No, he did not.
Not only should he have NOT approached them, he had no reason to wield his gun. None.

It was his vigilantism that caused someone to die. Not the other way around.

well, if you want to further demonstrate your lack of knowledge on the matter, you're off to a great start. rodriguez did not approach them. he was a few hundred feet away from the house, filming from the street. danaher and 4 friends saw his flashlight, hopped in a truck, and drove up to him, jumping out and very aggressively confronting rodriguez. it was at this point that rodriguez drew his weapon, and he was justified in doing so, for all he knew theyd jump out and drunkenly beat him to death. considering danaher ultimately charged screaming at a man with a gun, i'd say it's not too much of a stretch to say they may have, had rodriguez not been armed.

Originally posted by SM2
it is a tragedy that someone was killed, i will not argue that, it is a waste of life. However, had the deceased decided to be a good neighbor, the shooter would not have had to call the police, or go over and request the music be turned down. He made his decision, and had to reap the consequences. That is the way it works people, you are responsible for your own actions. If you decide to egg on an agitated armed person, chances are you get shot, and it is your own fault for being an idiot.

To die over the volume of music.

I cannot see how this is justified, the person almost sought a confrontation, thus the video cam witness, and it all happened, if those guys were intoxicated then it seems almost brash upon his part to do what he did. Now he will have to deal with the consequences and might be taken from his family.

Again egos.
Everyone felt pissed off at some point.
One man is in the ground, another man might have to live like an animal in a cage.

I fail to see any winners here.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by xEphon

 

Since you watched the video and you're now an expert and all, would you say Rodriguez had any place even approaching them in the first place since the police deemed the volume appropriate? No, he did not.
Not only should he have NOT approached them, he had no reason to wield his gun. None.

It was his vigilantism that caused someone to die. Not the other way around.

I carry my gun all the time, whether I need it or not.

I don't see anything wrong with walking down the street and asking my neighbor for a favor. My neighbors would probably oblige anything I asked. We have a LOT of loud parties at my house, and if a neighbor ever asked me to turn down the noise, I would either apologize and oblige, or I would explain the reason for the party and give them the assurance we would quiet down at an appropriate time, say midnight or so.

So, yes, he had plenty of right to carry his gun, and also ask them politely to turn down the music.

Have you seen the video? They attacked his politeness with rudeness, threats, aggressive posture, etc. He never lost his temper, and he never "brandished" his weapon until he was being approached aggressively. In fact, he even walked backwards and slightly retreated, and indicated he was leaving.

Early on in this thread, I said it was murder, and it might have been, but maybe it wasn't? We don't know the history of the neighborhood, and we don't know the background of the dead guy. Maybe he was a very dangerous and aggressive guy? Maybe he had attacked this man before? Maybe these parties happened every night?

I did watch the video. And what I saw was someone unhappy with what the police determined to be appropriate volume. He was neither polite or kind. In fact, the people who approached him in the truck were just as "kind" as he was.

He was being overly dramatic when he said he " feared for his life" as the person he was talking to had both hands in the air! Being a retired firefighter, it was obvious that he was using keywords to justify wielding his gun because the reality of the situation did not warrant it.

If anything, the video shows that he was doing exactly what he will be charged for. Murder of 1 person and attempted murder of 2 others.

reply to post by Apheon


it seemed pretty clear that he was videotaping the house to document what he felt was a noise violation. for all you know he carries his ccw at all times, as many in texas and other ccw states do. regardless. he was hundreds of feet from the house on the public street when the partygoers decided to hop in the truck, and roll up on him to confront him very aggressively. if 5 people were about to beat the # out of you for "being a busybody", would you have the right to defend yourself by your own standards? are you saying it is your duty to take a beatdown and possibly being beat to death in that situation?

reply to post by thedeadlyrhythm


You gun nuts are hilarious!! You are scared of your own shadow. Im sorry i dont want a bunch of wussys carrying around guns who are scared of any other average male figure or scared of a good ole boy brawl live to fight another day situation... Ask your father if he is over 60 how many fights he got in growing up and how many ended up with him needing to shoot the guy. Go ask him about those days of fighting and taking your bruises and bumps and living to see another day. But no no not this day is age with you softies, candy azz chumps.

www.rawstory.com...

Lets break it down shall we:

Time frame 1:40-1:50

Guy has arms totally up palms facing forward, no signs of weapons. Guy is not in any type of known fighting stance mma or boxing stance, guy doesn't have guard up with clenched fists at all . This was not a sign of aggression in the slightest. Guy was not charging or moving in a aggressive manner. If this guy scares you CHECK YOUR MAN CARD BOYS.

Now Mr R. is saying his life is in danger during this time frame. Mr R. also says you've got weapons on you!!!

THE GUY CLEARLY HAD NO WEAPONS! (Arms up, palms facing forward, guy is not in any known fighting stance)

Listen to Mr R. voice he was not truly scared to death.. ANYONE who is scared to death and has a chance to retreat will do so in most cases. Mr R had PLENTY OF TIME to stop running his mouth back and forth with the guys and start back walking home and recalling the cops who had already said the noise level was fine!!

If he had did this no one would have been killed. Those drunks were not that bad nor aggressive and I personally hate drunks usually.


The guys supporting this behavior if they posted their pics I guarantee they would look weak, be fat and out of shape. They love the thought of them starting fights with someone in better shape and being able to win the situation. Any idiot can buy a gun not everyone can be in shape and able to handle themselves because it requires dedication.

These guys are cowards. Hide behind your guns boys. They just dont make em like my father and grandfather anymore.

It used to be that killing an unarmed man was considered cowardly. Now we find every excuse in the book to justify it. Sad...

This is why I believe Stand Your Ground Laws are harmful...it encourages a person to continue to be part of a situation they EASILY have an escape from.

Self defense is defending yourself from a clear and immediate danger from which you have no alternative other than to harm your offender. This man clearly had alternatives. He chose to be part of the escalation he clearly saw coming (he even says so in the video, "they are trying to escalating" and "I will not leave". He shouldn't have stood his ground, he should have left. Prinicple has nothing to do with it when you are talking about a person's life. I don't see how it can be self defense if you CHOSE to stay in a situation that is clearly getting out of hand. Your NOT defending yourself if you are opting in to the confrontation. This is a clear problem with stand your ground laws, imo.

reply to post by xEphon

He was being overly dramatic when he said he " feared for his life" as the person he was talking to had both hands in the air! Being a retired firefighter, it was obvious that he was using keywords to justify wielded his gun because the reality of the situation did not warrant it.

I agree, and I think that part of the video is going to hurt him in court. He didn't seem to actually be afraid, he just seemed to be using key words, and that almost indicates pre-meditation.

If you're scared, you say you are scared, you don't say "I am in fear for my life."

I do think the other guys behavior is going to hurt them too though. I have faced off groups of stupid drunks like that before, and they are dangerous, and they are feeding off each others machismo and liquid courage. I think his life might actually have been in danger, but I also think he wanted the confrontation.

That is why it goes to the courts, and that is why a jury gets to decide. It is never cut and dry, there are always lots of other factors involved.

reply to post by nunya13



It still is considered cowardly to real men. But the pussification of America is increasing day by day. Most males seem to have been neutered in this country.

No man in this thread can claim to be a real man and yet be scared of some fat guy in a yellow shirt with his hands up walking slowly toward him weaponless not even with clenched fists LOL

Like the above poster stated they just dont make em like our fathers and grandfathers anymore.

Originally posted by thedeadlyrhythm
reply to post by Apheon

 

it seemed pretty clear that he was videotaping the house to document what he felt was a noise violation. for all you know he carries his ccw at all times, as many in texas and other ccw states do. regardless. he was hundreds of feet from the house on the public street when the partygoers decided to hop in the truck, and roll up on him to confront him very aggressively. if 5 people were about to beat the # out of you for "being a busybody", would you have the right to defend yourself by your own standards? are you saying it is your duty to take a beatdown and possibly being beat to death in that situation?

yeah but I would've been at my house, considering how I'm in Texas I know that once on my property the game completely changes.

Even if he doesn't have to go to jail, the amount of money it costs him and the fact he has to live with that he took someone elses life over something quite trivial, did the other party act inappropriate? absolutely.

I'm hoping one day mankind can get past this kind of absurdities.
Some how, I doubt it.


ps: I do agree though, that this man sought this kind of confrontation, lets be real here in tx if someone goes and talks # to you, you almost feel obligated to out # them.