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Stand Your Ground? Texas man kills teacher over noise complaint.

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posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 12:56 PM
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Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by xEphon
 



He was being overly dramatic when he said he " feared for his life" as the person he was talking to had both hands in the air! Being a retired firefighter, it was obvious that he was using keywords to justify wielded his gun because the reality of the situation did not warrant it.


I agree, and I think that part of the video is going to hurt him in court. He didn't seem to actually be afraid, he just seemed to be using key words, and that almost indicates pre-meditation.

If you're scared, you say you are scared, you don't say "I am in fear for my life."

I do think the other guys behavior is going to hurt them too though. I have faced off groups of stupid drunks like that before, and they are dangerous, and they are feeding off each others machismo and liquid courage. I think his life might actually have been in danger, but I also think he wanted the confrontation.

That is why it goes to the courts, and that is why a jury gets to decide. It is never cut and dry, there are always lots of other factors involved.


Agreed.
I'm all for letting a jury decide these types of cases. I personally just don't see him convincing a jury that deadly force was needed.




posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 12:59 PM
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Originally posted by thedeadlyrhythm
reply to post by Apheon
 

if 5 people were about to beat the # out of you for "being a busybody", would you have the right to defend yourself by your own standards? are you saying it is your duty to take a beatdown and possibly being beat to death in that situation?


No, I would say it is your duty to turn around a leave if you have the chance rather than wait and see if someone DOES come at you so you can shoot them. If 5 guys are threatening you--leave! If they come after you anyway, THEN you have the right to defend yourself because it is obvious you have no way out.


SM2

posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:01 PM
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reply to post by Apheon
 


yes to die over the volume of some music is stupid, so why did the drunken guys charge an armed neighbor? So it was ok for them to attempt to try and beat the old man senseless? Oh, i see the drunken teacher was the "victim" so it is automatically not his fault? Let us put the shoe on the other foot, had the drunken morons not been a public nuisance none of this would have happened and he would still be alive. Had the police actually done their job, he would still be alive. Had the teacher not been a complete moron, he may still be alive.

Would it not be common sense that if a neighbor came over and asked you to turn down your music, you should at least listen to his request? Well, this teacher did not, his reply was " I dont have to turn down ^%$" then they (all 5 or so of them) began to act aggressively and move towards the man in a threatening manner. At this point what was the shooter to do? Leave the altercation? He attempted to do so. He also warned them to not move any closer to him ( all of this happening IN THE STREET). The decided they did not want to that. So, they made a decision to escalate the situation by charging at the man and tackling him and in the process the dumba$$es got shot. Well, you can not fix stupid.

No one was shot because of the volume of the music. They were shot because they attacked an armed man. yes the music started the incident by causing a complaint. but it not cause anyone getting shot. some of you people will just use any argument you think will tug at the heart strings to demonize guns. Face the facts, sometimes people are idiots and bring things on themselves. If you ask me, by the video that is presented, the drunken morons got what they asked for. The proper way to handle it would have been " I am sorry Mr.R, we are having a birthday party, give us another hour or two and we will wrap it up" Or " I am sorry, we didnt realize the music was that loud, we will try to keep it down" But, no, instead they decided to act like douche bags. We need to get away with this whole "victim" mindset, this "teacher" was a victim of his own stupidity.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by SM2
reply to post by Apheon
 


yes to die over the volume of some music is stupid, so why did the drunken guys charge an armed neighbor? So it was ok for them to attempt to try and beat the old man senseless? Oh, i see the drunken teacher was the "victim" so it is automatically not his fault? Let us put the shoe on the other foot, had the drunken morons not been a public nuisance none of this would have happened and he would still be alive. Had the police actually done their job, he would still be alive. Had the teacher not been a complete moron, he may still be alive.

Would it not be common sense that if a neighbor came over and asked you to turn down your music, you should at least listen to his request? Well, this teacher did not, his reply was " I dont have to turn down ^%$" then they (all 5 or so of them) began to act aggressively and move towards the man in a threatening manner. At this point what was the shooter to do? Leave the altercation? He attempted to do so. He also warned them to not move any closer to him ( all of this happening IN THE STREET). The decided they did not want to that. So, they made a decision to escalate the situation by charging at the man and tackling him and in the process the dumba$$es got shot. Well, you can not fix stupid.

No one was shot because of the volume of the music. They were shot because they attacked an armed man. yes the music started the incident by causing a complaint. but it not cause anyone getting shot. some of you people will just use any argument you think will tug at the heart strings to demonize guns. Face the facts, sometimes people are idiots and bring things on themselves. If you ask me, by the video that is presented, the drunken morons got what they asked for. The proper way to handle it would have been " I am sorry Mr.R, we are having a birthday party, give us another hour or two and we will wrap it up" Or " I am sorry, we didnt realize the music was that loud, we will try to keep it down" But, no, instead they decided to act like douche bags. We need to get away with this whole "victim" mindset, this "teacher" was a victim of his own stupidity.


Wow. The level of exaggeration in your post is staggering.

I guess these birthday celebrating thugs deserved to die. Case closed.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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my take from the video, the teacher was not a lady...and I think its sort of a sexist stereotype alot of posters are making.
2nd...hes obviously not on the property but in the middle of the street...even the home owner clearly states that he is in the middle of the street waving his gun around.


SM2

posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by xEphon
 


what did i exaggerate? Point it out, show me. Did you watch the video?



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by SM2
reply to post by Apheon
 


yes to die over the volume of some music is stupid, so why did the drunken guys charge an armed neighbor? So it was ok for them to attempt to try and beat the old man senseless? Oh, i see the drunken teacher was the "victim" so it is automatically not his fault? Let us put the shoe on the other foot, had the drunken morons not been a public nuisance none of this would have happened and he would still be alive. Had the police actually done their job, he would still be alive. Had the teacher not been a complete moron, he may still be alive.

Would it not be common sense that if a neighbor came over and asked you to turn down your music, you should at least listen to his request? Well, this teacher did not, his reply was " I dont have to turn down ^%$" then they (all 5 or so of them) began to act aggressively and move towards the man in a threatening manner. At this point what was the shooter to do? Leave the altercation? He attempted to do so. He also warned them to not move any closer to him ( all of this happening IN THE STREET). The decided they did not want to that. So, they made a decision to escalate the situation by charging at the man and tackling him and in the process the dumba$$es got shot. Well, you can not fix stupid.

No one was shot because of the volume of the music. They were shot because they attacked an armed man. yes the music started the incident by causing a complaint. but it not cause anyone getting shot. some of you people will just use any argument you think will tug at the heart strings to demonize guns. Face the facts, sometimes people are idiots and bring things on themselves. If you ask me, by the video that is presented, the drunken morons got what they asked for. The proper way to handle it would have been " I am sorry Mr.R, we are having a birthday party, give us another hour or two and we will wrap it up" Or " I am sorry, we didnt realize the music was that loud, we will try to keep it down" But, no, instead they decided to act like douche bags. We need to get away with this whole "victim" mindset, this "teacher" was a victim of his own stupidity.


They were both in the wrong, are you failing to see this, have you already anchored yourself to a side?



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:13 PM
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reply to post by Apheon
 



They were both in the wrong, are you failing to see this, have you already anchored yourself to a side?



All of these situations have a cascade of failures. A plane doesn't crash for a singular reason, there is always a cascade of unfortunate incidences, and it usually comes down to pilot error, because there were plenty of places to stop the cascade and land the plane.

This situation is similar. There were PLENTY of places where either side could have stopped the cascade of bad decisions and nobody would be dead, but instead tunnel vision and pride sets in, and then they go down in flames together, and at least 2 lives will be ruined, probably more.


SM2

posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by Apheon
 


if it went down exactly as it did on the recorded video, then yes. I have. He met the legal requirements of SYG. He had a legal right to be there ( in the street) he stated that he felt like his life was in danger. The warning is not even a requirement, that is a courtesy. he attempted to leave the altercation by stating " i am not going to talk to you" which again was not required by law. Once they attacked him, he was within the law. He did not brandish the firearm until they began to act aggressively. Personally, I would not have pulled the gun at all until they actually attacked me and I would not have warned them. They would have had no idea i was armed until they decided to tackle me, once i was on the ground, that is when i would have pulled the gun out.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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It also sounds to me like Rodriguez was very aggressive and confrontational when he told them to turn it down. You can tell the teacher got instantly aggravated by the man's behavior (alcohol doesn't help, but let's not blame it entirely on that). I understand if you are pissed that the neighbor is playing music late, but in light of the video camera, gun and flashlight it seems to me he did everything in his power to create the situation. Mad world...
edit on 8-6-2012 by solarjetman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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Originally posted by SM2
reply to post by Apheon
 


if it went down exactly as it did on the recorded video, then yes. I have. He met the legal requirements of SYG. He had a legal right to be there ( in the street) he stated that he felt like his life was in danger. The warning is not even a requirement, that is a courtesy. he attempted to leave the altercation by stating " i am not going to talk to you" which again was not required by law. Once they attacked him, he was within the law. He did not brandish the firearm until they began to act aggressively. Personally, I would not have pulled the gun at all until they actually attacked me and I would not have warned them. They would have had no idea i was armed until they decided to tackle me, once i was on the ground, that is when i would have pulled the gun out.


One could easily argue, he put himself in that situation.

Now he must face the legal gauntlet...

I never felt the urge in my life to confront someone about their music from their house with or without a weapon. Again this is what the police are for, this isn't a video game called Vigilante, it's real life and there are dire consequences. it's fine we disagree, however this could've all entirely been avoided, but now we get to rage at each other like a ruptured hemmorhoid. Nothing pretty about it.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:24 PM
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My question is would this situation ended any differently if a police officer had shown up? Would they shown the officer respect or gave him a bunch flack? I personal see no difference in a law abide citizen and a police officer, you duties as ciziten our very much the same as his. And can carry as much power as a officer, however a lot of people are unaware of this and the law doesn't condown this. Because if we did there job there would be no need for them. Back to if officer had shown up and he warned this person not to advance him any further or he would shoot and he shoots him, would the out cry be any different? No! Because someone got killed for playing there music to loud is what a lot of people would say. However I would not, someone killed because they where stupid, when someone has a gun aimed at you and tells you not to move common sense would tell not to move, but in this case it would sound like they incited the man to shoot. I hope they all weren't surprised when he did, I hope they all feel guilt that they egged on a man to kill there friend. Please not get me wrong I am not trying point out right or wrong. The whole thing is wrong in every way possible, we live in a society where you can't ask your neighbor to turn it done a little with out fear confrontation. Most of us have had to deal with this, I have and it's usually doesn't resolve anything by asking them to turn it down. Buttom line people, if we continue to act outrageous and act like animals we will continue to be treated like animals. to me it all boils down to this.


SM2

posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by Apheon
 

one could just as easily argue that the teacher put himself in his position. Calling the police does not always work. Asking someone to keep it down is not vigilantism, which is all he went to do. Everything else after that was him reacting to the action of the party goers, as the video shows.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:29 PM
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I can guarantee you that Mr. Rodriguez is sitting somewhere with tears running down his face crying and saying over and over..."why did I do that?"

He knows that his macho pride and ego has gotten him into a life changing situation. Not only his life but the life of his family. You just can't fix stupid sometimes.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by SM2
reply to post by Apheon
 


if it went down exactly as it did on the recorded video, then yes. I have. He met the legal requirements of SYG. He had a legal right to be there ( in the street) he stated that he felt like his life was in danger.


(Emphasis mine)

There's this thing that people do sometimes. Maybe you've heard of it. It's called lying.

The guy blew somebody away because they had their stereo turned up too loudly. He was not attacked. He went into somebody else's property. He didn't have someone else come into his. He wasn't defending himself. He was the aggressor.

Castle or SYG doctrine maintains the right of self-defense, if someone trespasses on your property while armed, and threatens your life. It does not promote the right of someone to offensively trespass on someone else's property, and shoot them without provocation.

The latter is called murder. The man in this case is guilty of murder, and deserves to go to jail for the standard length of time that murderers are customarily sentenced for.

Rather than focusing primarily on how you can best make apologies for a fellow militant, canine/human hybrid in this thread, you might want to think about that for a few moments.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by crash712us
 


You advocate "we should stop being animals", yet you condone the shooting and death of a man over something as stupid as "Loud music". You really need to go over what you are saying, and think about it again.

In regards to your idea that, "If a Police Officer had shot him..." :

If it was an officer that shot him, I would still call the officer an idiot and a murderer. This was a brutal and needless death, and in my opinion, it was pre-meditated. He brought a camera, and a gun. It was not spontaneous nor was it manslaughter. He knew what he was going to do and he invited it upon himself so he could shoot the man.



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by SM2
reply to post by Apheon
 

one could just as easily argue that the teacher put himself in his position. Calling the police does not always work. Asking someone to keep it down is not vigilantism, which is all he went to do. Everything else after that was him reacting to the action of the party goers, as the video shows.


The teacher is dead, there are no more consequences he could face.

btw premeditation is a beast in terms of legality.
en.wikipedia.org...

He over stepped his bounds, he is a not a penal code enforcer, thus it borders into Vigilantism.
www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us...

(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;


I see you are ready to argue your point til you vomit, and thats cool but I leave you to that, my only points were both parties were idiots, many chances to avoid this, and it's something that should've never occurred, if you can't agree with that, it's okay it's your right.


But now me and you will have to deal with consequences, maybe sometime in the future we will have to legitimately defend ourself and it will come into question because of yahoos like this who are looking for an opportunity to use their CCW, in a future court case. I'm all for CCW, but it doesn't mean just because you took the class you are the law or some master mind when deciding when the rule of law is applied.

Either way this guy has a long hard road ahead of him, and I'm sure he regrets things went down the way they did.

edit on 8-6-2012 by Apheon because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by SM2
 

How would calling the police not work? If anything, it might be a little slower, but it would work just fine. If they didn't cooperate a second phone call would suffice and maybe the house would suffer the consequences-- maybe a few arrests for disturbing the peace. Also, even the worst criminals know the repercussions they would face for assaulting an officer (unless they are dumb), so yes it would be completely different.

This isn't a robbery in action that needs prompt tending to, this is some music that's compromising the man's beauty sleep. Do we live in such an instantaneous world that he can't wait ten minutes for the police to show up?

If everything he did was completely within the law, then that just goes to show everything that's wrong with the system.


edit on 8-6-2012 by solarjetman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by solarjetman
 


The police had already been out and determined the noise didn't violate the law. They might have refused to come out a second time. (or 3rd or 9th whatever the case actually was)



posted on Jun, 8 2012 @ 01:51 PM
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That was Murder. He went down the street with a gun. I doubt the music was even a dull roar at his home. We all know neighbors like this. He should be executed.




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