Police Stop, Handcuff Every Adult at Intersection in Search for Bank Robber, page 6

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

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Ohhhhh! All they had to do was sit on a sidewalk for a few minutes? My bad, I thought they were handcuffed after drug out of their cars by heavily armed police officers aiming weapons at them and then detained for several hours. That's what I get for reading several news reports instead of listening to your propaganda. Doh!

Right, I will go with this report which says 2 hours, not a few minutes I said, and not the few hours you insisted. We were both wrong.

Yeah, you're right. Parents should be allowed to use this tactic with their kids. Just point armed pistols and shotguns at them while handcuffing them and then make them sit on a curb for a "few minutes" (wink wink). After all, it's not like imprisoning children, it is a "win/win" for parenting and upbringing.

Right, have you EVER been detained in a situation like this? Its understandable why the cops had their guns out and ready. There were innocents around and the perp was armed. At any moment he could have fired off shots and the police need to neutralize as quick as possible. They don't have time to play quick draw here.

Yeah, you're right. That due process of law nonsense is just a bunch of ideological hooey. Hell, if you're not doing anything wrong, then why do you need rights, right?

Here you are once again over ruling SCOTUS. They decide on what is constitutional, regardless of your opinion.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by TsukiLunar

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No one wants to be searched, however I would give consent for it because i am willing to put up with it for public safety and because otherwise it makes no practical or logical sense to refuse.

Sure, it was an action done for "public safety", using innocent people as suspects to barricade and flush out the armed criminal. Who cares that this Dirty Harry strategy could have gone horribly wrong and the armed robbers pulled a North Hollywood Shootout killing you and several other innocent people, right? Being a sacrificial lamb to the alter is what we should all aspire to be, and in the name of "public safety". Thank-you for your willing - albeit hypothetical - sacrifice.

Right, this is why I cant talk to you. You are always looking down on everyone else who doesn't mindlessly agree with your interpretation of events and motives or indeed, the law itself.

reply to post by TsukiLunar

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Right, this is why I cant talk to you. You are always looking down on everyone else who doesn't mindlessly agree with your interpretation of events and motives or indeed, the law itself.

That's not fair! I look down on people who agree with me too! I'm an equal opportunity snob. Wait a minute...what did you say to Golf just a few posts ago? I hope you're an equal opportunity snob too, pal. I can't stand elitism.

reply to post by TsukiLunar

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Right, have you EVER been detained in a situation like this? Its understandable why the cops had their guns out and ready. There were innocents around and the perp was armed. At any moment he could have fired off shots and the police need to neutralize as quick as possible. They don't have time to play quick draw here.

Ah! I see you are an equal opportunity snob. You must be, clearly by this remark. You must think everyone is stupid and will fall for your lame propaganda.

Who do you think you're kidding? Quick draw is the precise game these gangland thugs played.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by TsukiLunar

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Right, have you EVER been detained in a situation like this? Its understandable why the cops had their guns out and ready. There were innocents around and the perp was armed. At any moment he could have fired off shots and the police need to neutralize as quick as possible. They don't have time to play quick draw here.

Ah! I see you are an equal opportunity snob. You must be, clearly by this remark. You must think everyone is stupid and will fall for your lame propaganda.

Who do you think you're kidding? Quick draw is the precise game these gangland thugs played.

My... propaganda? I disagree with you, obviously that qualifies as propaganda in your eyes.

reply to post by TsukiLunar

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My... propaganda? I disagree with you, obviously that qualifies as propaganda in your eyes.

Would you be happier with doublespeak? Let's claim that the police had to pull their weapons on innocents because they had no time to play quick draw, and let's pretend they weren't all ready playing quick draw by threatening innocent people with instant death if one wrong move was made. Would doublespeak be more to your liking?

reply to post by TsukiLunar

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Your rights are there to protect you, that does not mean that you have to mindlessly assert them every chance we get.

No...not in the USA. Government is actually there to protect your Natural rights. Read the Declaration of Independence.

And being stopped at an intersection with an armed robber there. possibly laying in wait, and hand cuffed and lined up on the curb makes you a TARGET...not safe.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by TsukiLunar

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My... propaganda? I disagree with you, obviously that qualifies as propaganda in your eyes.

Would you be happier with doublespeak? Let's claim that the police had to pull their weapons on innocents because they had no time to play quick draw, and let's pretend they weren't all ready playing quick draw by threatening innocent people with instant death if one wrong move was made. Would doublespeak be more to your liking?

Loaded question.

reply to post by fleabit

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Sure, it's not like they could have shown a little patience and just simply followed the 19 cars, carefully and cautiously determined which car was being driven by the bank robbers through a process of elimination. That's too much like detective work. We can't expect our police officers to engage in detective work can we? It is just better to put innocent people at risk, violate their rights to due process of law and get an chance to pull your weapons on women and children. That's a hell of a lot more fun than detective work.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by fleabit

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Sure, it's not like they could have shown a little patience and just simply followed the 19 cars, carefully and cautiously determined which car was being driven by the bank robbers through a process of elimination. That's too much like detective work. We can't expect our police officers to engage in detective work can we? It is just better to put innocent people at risk, violate their rights to due process of law and get an chance to pull your weapons on women and children. That's a hell of a lot more fun than detective work.

Seriously? So after 5 blocks, when all 19 cars have gone in a different direction, they should be tailing all of them? You don't think that the people here would be outraged at that as well? You don't think the criminal once he realizes he is being tailed, doesn't speed off and endanger others? You honestly would just let the criminal drive away if you had a GOOD reason to suspect he was RIGHT THERE?

It's an odd situation - so they made a snap decision. Perhaps not the best, but I honestly doubt they were trying to crush people under their police state totalitarian rule, as people suggest. They were trying to be as safe as possible. No one was shot, they got the criminal.. and they are evil pigs for doing it, right? So sad.

reply to post by fleabit

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Seriously? So after 5 blocks, when all 19 cars have gone in a different direction, they should be tailing all of them? You don't think that the people here would be outraged at that as well?

Yes, seriously. Had the police just tailed the 19 vehicles and through a process of elimination found the bank robbers, then the only news story would be how the cops found the bank robbers and no one would be reporting about how they tailed 19 cars and through a process of elimination found the criminals, and because of this it is a good bet no one would be talking about it in this site. Yes seriously, you bet!

You don't think the criminal once he realizes he is being tailed, doesn't speed off and endanger others?

What are you suggesting? That the old practice of following criminals driving a car is too dangerous for people and it is better and safer for people if cops just point shotguns in their faces, treat them like they're the criminals, handcuff them and while they are armed to the gills, protected with bullet proof vests leave these people on a sidewalk curb while they look for the real criminal? This is your idea of police work?

You honestly would just let the criminal drive away if you had a GOOD reason to suspect he was RIGHT THERE?

If my choices were to violate the rights of people of whom I swore an oath of office to protect and defend their rights or let the bank robber drive away, that's a no-brainer, sport! You bet your ass I would let the bank robber drive away under those two choices and I wouldn't for a single solitary second consider trampling all over peoples rights just to catch a bank robber now that can be caught a little while from now.

It's an odd situation - so they made a snap decision. Perhaps not the best, but I honestly doubt they were trying to crush people under their police state totalitarian rule, as people suggest. They were trying to be as safe as possible. No one was shot, they got the criminal.. and they are evil pigs for doing it, right? So sad.

Clearly you've not bothered to read every post in this thread. I don't think this was about crushing people under a totalitarian state either, I think it was a bunch of hot-dogs who wanted to play Dirty Harry for a day and never even bothered to read the Colorado State Constitution of which they swore an oath to protect and defend. I don't think these clowns became police officers to serve a totalitarian state, but I sure as hell don't think they became police officers to serve and protect the people either, and I what I think is that way too goddamned many of them on that force ate lunch alone in the high school cafeteria and that's why they became cops! But, that's just my opinion.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

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What is this "process of elimination" you speak of? What visual criteria equals "not bank robber"? If one of them stops at porno shop, is he ruled out? Like wise, if a guy pulls into a shady warehouse, do we storm the place?

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

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What is this "process of elimination" you speak of? What visual criteria equals "not bank robber"? If one of them stops at porno shop, is he ruled out? Like wise, if a guy pulls into a shady warehouse, do we storm the place?

Are you so dense that you think the way they handled it, which in itself was a process of elimination, the only difference being that they violated the rights of countless others in that process, would be better than simply tailing these 19 vehicles and finding ways to one by one pull each car over and politely explain the situation and ask permission to search the vehicle?

Are you that dense?

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

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Are you so dense that you think the way they handled it, which in itself was a process of elimination, the only difference being that they violated the rights of countless others in that process, would be better than simply tailing these 19 vehicles and finding ways to one by one pull each car over and politely explain the situation and ask permission to search the vehicle?

Are you that dense?

Right... so the process of elimination is pulling over and searching each vehicle? I guess that about ends this discussion.

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