Where is the gospel of jesus?

Originally posted by tkwasny

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by troubleshooter

 

I kinda wish he became a stone mason instead of a carpenter, and chiselled his thoughts in stone. Lasts a lot longer. Then again even stone can be stolen or destroyed, so maybe there would not be a different outcome either way.

Wood offers the right amount of resistance to change. But once cut, it cannot return to it's original shape. Just like what happens once the Presence cements into a person because of that persons choice to do so. There is no going back.

Jesus didn't write anything because He was not here to set out a list of propositional doctrines...
...He was here to achieve one thing, to die and then transend death.

This action had been hidden in prophetic and ceremonial shadow for thousands of years...
...he did not have to write about it, only to have witnesses who would tell of His achievement.

Supposedly the Gospels of Thomas were about Jesus' own words....no idea but interesting regardless


www.sacred-texts.com...

Originally posted by Turq1
Another slightly important question to consider, would christians read it?


But if there was one, the Catholic church would have probably burned it...of course keeping one for their own collection.

As I asked another person, why do you have a view that God is not more Sovereign than ANY CHURCH? Who has taught you to believe that God is powerless? Who taught you to believe than a physical church=Bible=God?
Good gracious, what did millions of faithful do when they weren't allowed to even OWN a copy of the Bible? Do you think God said "You can't have a relationship with me?" How did Abraham rejoice at seeing Jesus' day? Why is Paul known as the apostle who harped on and on about FAITH? The answer is simple and demonstrated on each page of Holy Scripture - that God desires a relationship with man, not via a church, but with man himself.

As a Christian, I accept that wayward churches are used, by God Himself, to strengthen my Faith in HIM, but at the same time used by Him to separate those who don't seek truth from those who do. If a person wants to believe that the physical church and their man-made doctrines equals God, then so be it, they have no love of truth to discover the answers for themselves. This is why they will perish, that their love of lies was more powerful than any desire to save themselves. You know, in your heart, that all you need to do is approach Him directly, with a heart that seeks truth, a humbled heart, but yet, it doesn't happen for so many reasons. I went 43 years without giving Him any real thought. I pretty much sat on the fence, not making a move either way. Then He applied some pressure in my life that awakened a need to seek Him. I prayed for faith, I prayed to understand what I was seeing in the world. And through His mercy, He showed me and my life now, at every moment, is filled with thoughts of Him. I went to church for a few months, but there was no spirit there, no words of Him, so I study with my sister and with my family.

Please separate what the Catholic church, or any church does, from true Faith that He desires. I could care less if they burned my Bible, for God would just continue to teach me as I enquire of Him. Or He'd just send another one. This is God. This is what I would like all to know. His pressure is on all of us today, to FULFILL scripture when it says that "God desires all to be saved", but that because of the love of wickedness, many will not even desire to save themselves. I was one of them, but mercifully, somebody must have preached the good news to me about Jesus when I was a child. This is why scripture declares that the gospel will be preached in all nations and then the end will come. All those he calls WILL have heard it. What the Catholic church did, does or will tomorrow has absolutely know relevance to my faith in Him who called me, but only has relevance for those under it's sway. If you want to believe that they have more power than God Himself, then you are under it's sway too.

Originally posted by 1littlewolf

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by TKDRL

 

The most important people to ever walk the earth never wrote their words themselves. Jesus, Aristotle, Confucius, Muhammad (Mirrored Truth) and so on. Read their words, written by disciples, and you are reading true perspective to find truth.

Wrong there Ed, you are getting the disciples version of the Truth. Or in most cases you are getting some early christian churches version of the truth when in fact what they may well have been doing is simply writing a some scripture, in many cases hundreds of years after the event, in order to give themselves some sense of legitimency. Few of the disciples themselves ever wrote what is commonly attributed to them.

Source

Where is your proof that they didn't write what is attributed to them? There exist no facts that say Matthew (for example) did not write the book with his name on it. The inverse may be true as well. BUt the book as been passed down for two millenia without much debate about it's authorship. Yet now that we have the internet, we feel like we have all kinds of correct information, now don't we? Don't worry, just listen to the information given to you on the internet or TV....those are the only 'facts' that matter.

reply to post by TKDRL


I think that explained it very well.
We hear about him but not from him

Originally posted by NaptownBrown
Where is your proof that they didn't write what is attributed to them? There exist no facts that say Matthew (for example) did not write the book with his name on it. The inverse may be true as well.

It may be true, but this isn't exactly filling me with confidence. You mention the book of Matthew - what about the other 26 books?

BUt the book as been passed down for two millenia without much debate about it's authorship. Yet now that we have the internet, we feel like we have all kinds of correct information, now don't we? Don't worry, just listen to the information given to you on the internet or TV....those are the only 'facts' that matter.

But that's really the key isn't it. See today we actually have the information. And we have the freedom to question, and biblical scholars are actually able to look at the texts in a way they never have before without fear of persecution.

Keep in mind this information comes from biblical scholars, as in people who love the Bible so much they are willing to spend a greater part of their lives studying it's origins. I'm fairly sure you won't find too many atheists who wold bother to go to such lengths to de-bunk the Bible and the supposed perfect record-keeping all the way from some disciple's quill to your local Christian bookstore 2000 years later.

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by TKDRL

 

The most important people to ever walk the earth never wrote their words themselves. Jesus, Aristotle, Confucius, Muhammad (Mirrored Truth) and so on. Read their words, written by disciples, and you are reading true perspective to find truth.

Important thing to note with Islam is the chain of tradition they have, the science of the Hadiths. It is quite a feat, verified all the way back to the transmission itself so there is no doubt whether what you are hearing has been changed or not (how you interpret is another matter).

I believe during the time of Jesus (who was a man but spiritually speaking you could say the Son of God i.e. guided by God) people didn't need written forms of text as they were much more adept at memorizing information (as is documented in Middle Eastern and Asian history).

However at some point information needed to be transmitted out of it's location the information was transmitted to paper thus leading to the possibility that there is a gospel out there (most likely hidden from view) authored by those who were in very close proximity of Jesus (i.e via a disciple or a descendant of the disciple etc).

My 2 pence.

Originally posted by old_god

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by TKDRL

 

The most important people to ever walk the earth never wrote their words themselves. Jesus, Aristotle, Confucius, Muhammad (Mirrored Truth) and so on. Read their words, written by disciples, and you are reading true perspective to find truth.

Important thing to note with Islam is the chain of tradition they have, the science of the Hadiths. It is quite a feat, verified all the way back to the transmission itself so there is no doubt whether what you are hearing has been changed or not (how you interpret is another matter).

I believe during the time of Jesus (who was a man but spiritually speaking you could say the Son of God i.e. guided by God) people didn't need written forms of text as they were much more adept at memorizing information (as is documented in Middle Eastern and Asian history).

However at some point information needed to be transmitted out of it's location the information was transmitted to paper thus leading to the possibility that there is a gospel out there (most likely hidden from view) authored by those who were in very close proximity of Jesus (i.e via a disciple or a descendant of the disciple etc).

My 2 pence.

As context would provide, Barnabas is well known by his Epistle. The "GOSPEL" from Iran suggests a different person than the one the Epistle unravels. When there is a paradox, paradox is solved according to the Seven Rules of Hillel. In modern terminology, this is Hermeneutics.

Seven Rules

6. Kayotze bo mimekom akhar (Analogy made from another passage)

Two passages may seem to conflict until compared with a third, which has points of general though not necessarily verbal similarity.

The third is the Bible. We also have a fourth, which is the Quran itself. This document provides motive. By context, the Quran has been used to steal, kill and destroy. There are two Fathers. One is the Father God and the other is the father Satan. We know them by their fruit. But, wait! Doesn't the Church of Rome do the same? Yes. This is why Jesus said to love your enemies and to know people by their character. We then trace the character to the name and the context to the origination of the name. The name is the character we takes. If we take the name of the LORD in vain, we take the name but not the character.

Now, I have the ability to use the next rule:

7. Davar hilmad me'anino (Explanation obtained from context)

The total context, not just the isolated statement must be considered for an accurate exegesis.

Now that we have the characters of each book and the fruit they reveal within the followers, we can resolve the paradox of the three parts of our word. We have two false religions and Jesus as the third way. The Way is Love and Jesus is tied directly within the biblical context to the prophets. Love is found among the true believers who do not take the name in vain. The name is the character.

Rightly dividing scripture must be done by the seven rules. The Gospel of Barnabas denies the true name. It can be rightly divided as a forgery. Further, the release of the text would remove all doubt. We could compare writing style and date the leather. An article on WND removes all doubt to the age.

WND ARTICLE

islam-watch.org

Text
Time To Unmask Muhammad
The Koran is not just a book. Muslims believe that Allah himself wrote it and that it was dictated to Muhammad in the original version, the Umm al-Kitab, which is kept on a table in heaven. Consequently one cannot argue with the contents. Who would dare to disagree with what Allah himself has written? This explains much of Muhammadan behaviour, from the violence of jihad to the hatred and persecution of Jews, Christians and other non-Muslims and apostates. What we in the West regard as abnormal, is perfectly normal for Islam.

There has been much analysis of Muhammad’s mental sanity. In spite of all the available research, it is rarely mentioned or debated. It is a taboo to discuss the true nature of the man whom one and a half billion Muslims around the world regard as a holy prophet and example to be followed. That taboo must be breached in the West, and here in the Netherlands.

Ali Sina is an Iranian ex-Muslim who established the organisation for apostates of Islam Faith Freedom International. In his latest book he posits that Muhammad is a narcissist, a paedophile, a mass murderer, a terrorist, a misogynist, a lecher, a cult leader, a madman, a rapist, a torturer, an assassin and a looter. Sina has offered 50,000 dollars for the one who can prove otherwise. Nobody has claimed the reward as yet. And no wonder, as the description is based on the Islamic texts themselves, such as the hadiths, the descriptions of Muhammad’s life from testimonies of contemporaries.

The historical Muhammad was the savage leader of a gang of robbers from Medina. Without scruples they looted, raped and murdered. The sources describe orgies of savagery where hundreds of people’s throats were cut, hands and feet chopped off, eyes cut out, entire tribes massacred. An example is the extinction of the jewish Kurayza tribe in Medina in 627. One of those who chopped off their heads was Muhammad. The women and children were sold as slaves. Confronted with the lunacy of Islamic terrorists today, it is not hard to find out where the lunacy comes from.

In his book "The other Muhammad" (1992) the Flemish psychologist dr. Herman Somers concludes that in his forties the “prophet” began to suffer from acromegaly, a condition caused by a tumor in the pituitary gland, a small organ that is situated just below the brain. When the tumor in the pituitary gland causes too much pressure in the brain, people start to see and hear things that are not there. Somers’s psychopathological diagnosis of Muhammad’s condition is: organic hallucinatory affliction with paranoid characteristics.

The German medical historian Armin Geus speaks of a paranoid hallucinatory schizophrenia. A similar analysis can be found in the book “The Medical Case of Muhammad” by the physician Dede Korkut.

In his book "Psychology of Mohammed: Inside the Brain of a Prophet", Dr. Masud Ansari calls Muhammad “the perfect personification of a psychopath in power.” Muhammad had a unhinged paranoid personality with an inferiority complex and megalomaniac tendencies. In his forties he starts having visions that lead him to believe he has a cosmic mission, and there is no stopping him.

Anyone who voices criticism of Islam and Muhammad is in grave personal danger – as I have experienced. And whoever attempts to escape from the influence of Islam and Muhammad risks death. We cannot continue to accept this state of affairs. A public debate about the true nature and character of Muhammad can provide insight and support to Muslims all over the world who wish to leave Islam.

.answering-islam.org

Text
Deceptive God, Incompetent Messiah
What Islam Really Teaches About Allah and Jesus

By David Wood
FACT #1: The Qur’an states that Jesus was a messenger of Allah and a prophet of Islam. Indeed, Surah 19 tells us that Jesus began preaching Islamic theology the moment he was born
FACT #2: The Qur’an states that Jesus won a number of followers.
FACT #3: If there were first-century Jews who converted to Islam at the preaching of Jesus, they didn’t last very long
FACT #4: The Qur’an states that Allah deceived people into believing that Jesus had died on the cross

Allah Spreads the False Religion He Accidentally Started

FACT #5: The Qur’an states that Allah helped spread Christianity

If Islam Is True . .
If Christianity Is True . . .

If Christianity is true, then the following statements are also true:
(1) People can only come to God through Jesus Christ.
(2) Satan is a real spirit being who wants to keep people from God

reply to post by denynothing


If them christians weren't liars, and just said that, I would have said no thinks. What's the point really? You are right, nothing changed at all, not a thing.

I could have not wasted years of my life dealing with their mental abuse. Would be nice to have those wasted years back, would have been better off joining little league or something.. Wasting my weekends at their "church", listening to them spew bile and hatred, throw guilt at one another, and talk crap about everyone who was not present at the time. I feel sorry for them, nothing but a bunch of hatefilled hypocrites, thinking they are on some high horse to heaven because they belong to the "only right church". Yeah I am sure jesus is very proud of that lot.

reply to post by redneck13


Funny how that works. Ex christians also happen to make up a good portion of those that bash christianity now as well.

reply to post by TKDRL


I noticed many people didn’t like the doctrine or the overpowering nature of their preacher. Kissing rattlesnakes isn’t mainstream Christianity. Most of the bigger churches are more vanilla in flavor but it depends on the preacher. Majority of Christian churches are conservative, it is not the ones you hear about on the news.

Originally posted by redneck13
reply to post by TKDRL

 

I noticed many people didn’t like the doctrine or the overpowering nature of their preacher. Kissing rattlesnakes isn’t mainstream Christianity. Most of the bigger churches are more vanilla in flavor but it depends on the preacher. Majority of Christian churches are conservative, it is not the ones you hear about on the news.

Well also remember most modern "Christians" are rebellious to spiritual authority and the 5-fold function of the church. Dysfunction should never be the model.

No one really knows whether Christ existed as a person or as a myth, regardless of what they say. If he did exist, it is obvious that his story was later exaggerated beyond any semblance of truth. It all seems consistent with mythology IMO.

It is a fascinating fact that levels of religious belief and levels of societal dysfunction show direct relationship. The real question is whether it is a cause, or a symptom, of such dysfunction.


www.epjournal.net...

reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum


I wished you had let me know that sooner
I wouldn’t have to had to go to church all those years.

reply to post by TKDRL


Believe me, I've been to hell, fire, and brimstone churches. They only spread the word through fear. It's sad really, because the whole basis of the new testament is that god loved us so much he gave us an alternative to hell through Jesus. Christians much like myself at times get wrapped up in our faith to a point that we criticize others as if we can somehow win favor. We forget god looks at us as all equals and sin is all equal.

Hopefully that changes your mind a bit about churches, because the ones that preach the love explain the word so much better. Perhaps you can find a church that cares only about you and gods relationship and not so much who god should or shouldn't love more.

reply to post by TKDRL


Believe me, I've been to hell, fire, and brimstone churches. They only spread the word through fear. It's sad really, because the whole basis of the new testament is that god loved us so much he gave us an alternative to hell through Jesus. Christians much like myself at times get wrapped up in our faith to a point that we criticize others as if we can somehow win favor. We forget god looks at us as all equals and sin is all equal.

Hopefully that changes your mind a bit about churches, because the ones that preach the love explain the word so much better. Perhaps you can find a church that cares only about you and gods relationship and not so much who god should or shouldn't love more.

reply to post by denynothing


I am hoping to look into the UU church when I make it back state side. Churches around here are all french, so not much point going, when I can't understand much of what they are saying anyways lol.

reply to post by TKDRL


You might want to get there early or, the rest of the heathens and fornicators will take up all the seats in the back row.