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Reality Is Not An Opinion

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posted on May, 23 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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Personal experiences are not opinions, but personal facts that can't be shared or forced on someone else to be taken as fact so you let it be or direct them in a manner in which they can have their own experience. My views on death are hazy at best, but spirituality as a whole and what this life is I assume to be Oneness because of experiences like this:



Too many people have them. You'd think if they were hallucinating they wouldn't all hallucinate the same thing.




posted on May, 23 2012 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by TheJourney
Reality is not an opinion, but ANYTHING that could possibly be said about reality IS an opinion. Sounds like you have some opinions in OP...


If I drop something that has weight will it not consistently fall? Is that fact or opinion?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by Jwest06
 

What you are overlooking is that what they are describing isn't the end of the line. It's just one way of visualizing the truth, but it isn't the truth itself.

It's just one option.

The truth is "All that can be, already is". The opinion is answering the question "what is all that can be going to do with itself"?


Originally posted by Jwest06
If I drop something that has weight will it not consistently fall? Is that fact or opinion?

It's the opinion of our shared consciousness higher than our individualized ones. It has the option of having a different opinion about what will happen. It's just one option that is currently in play, but is not truth in itself. It's the equivalent of picking between red and blue.

You don't know if we all suddenly honestly believed it was possible for the weight to NOT fall, if it will hover. That will only be possible to test if we all truly stopped holding the "old" opinion and put our confidence in a "new" opinion. We just won't know till we try. That's the thrill for infinity which already knows it is possible, but is bored knowing. It is having fun discovering it *is* possible (again and again).

You are close, but still locked a bit by your current environment. Emphasis on current.

The things the guys in the video are discussing are not hallucinations... at least no more of a hallucination than anything else including "reality". However they are still just one vantage point of Infinity looking at itself.

Namaste.
edit on 2012/5/23 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by Jwest06

Originally posted by TheJourney
Reality is not an opinion, but ANYTHING that could possibly be said about reality IS an opinion. Sounds like you have some opinions in OP...


If I drop something that has weight will it not consistently fall? Is that fact or opinion?


When you speak of it falling, do explain it in its mathematical terms, referring only to formulas? No you don't. I guarantee you never say the object fell with a velocity of blah blah blah in relation to the average atmospheric resistance blah blah blah.

If you don't, and since you don't, whenever you speak, you are "cookie cutting" the truth so that you may be able to explain it in simple, everyday, understandable terms. Because you do this, what you say is subjective and for all intents and purposes, is your opinion.

What about in deep space where there may be no gravity? Can you prove that this is the only universe that exists? Can you prove that gravity is the same in everywhere in the universe? Universal truths have not been proven in either science or philosophy.
edit on 23-5-2012 by SubPop79 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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reply to post by Jwest06
 


OP you could have done so much more with this :



Reality is an absolute train wreck because of opinions.


Here let me try ?

The train of reality has collided with the dump truck of opinions.

Whata ya think ?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by ErgoTheConfusion
reply to post by Jwest06
 

What you are overlooking is that what they are describing isn't the end of the line. It's just one way of visualizing the truth, but it isn't the truth itself.

It's just one option.

The truth is "All that can be, already is". The opinion is answering the question "what is all that can be going to do with itself"?


Originally posted by Jwest06
If I drop something that has weight will it not consistently fall? Is that fact or opinion?

It's the opinion of our shared consciousness higher than our individualized ones. It has the option of having a different opinion about what will happen. It's just one option that is currently in play, but is not truth in itself. It's the equivalent of picking between red and blue.

You don't know if we all suddenly honestly believed it was possible for the weight to NOT fall, if it will hover. That will only be possible to test if we all truly stopped holding the "old" opinion and put our confidence in a "new" opinion. We just won't know till we try. That's the thrill for infinity which already knows it is possible, but is bored knowing. It is having fun discovering it *is* possible (again and again).

You are close, but still locked a bit by your current environment. Emphasis on current.

The things the guys in the video are discussing are not hallucinations... at least no more of a hallucination than anything else including "reality". However they are still just one vantage point of Infinity looking at itself.

Namaste.
edit on 2012/5/23 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)


I was not of the impression that we could not change something such as falling with our collective consciousness. And it may very well be a different experience entirely for something outside of this form of existence, but in ours and what it means to be human, it is consistently the same.

Assumptions are about as useful as opinions.

I had a rather bizarre dream last night where I murdered a cop in self-defense and then thirty minutes later I'm giving some 10 year old kid advice on dealing with his abusive father. I got the impression that he was a drunk and I was laying on the floor laying beside the kid's bed with him there appearing to be waiting to be tucked in. From what I recall, I gave the advice of, "question everything, never blindly accept an answer as valid" and I stayed in my position of laying there as the father came in the room which is roughly where I woke up. Knowing that some people have shared the same dream before from different perspectives, it did cross my mind wondering if I was just some kid's imaginary friend for a moment. Made me tear up actually, the notion that something that bizarre could possibly be true.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 05:57 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Jwest06
 


OP you could have done so much more with this :



Reality is an absolute train wreck because of opinions.


Here let me try ?

The train of reality has collided with the dump truck of opinions.

Whata ya think ?


I wrote it on paper and had the start of two or three more paragraphs underneath it that I didn't finish.

"If there were such a thing as hell, it would be facing your own individual hang ups. Every instance would be pure agony, accepting the things that you're psyche couldn't stand to bear."

Under that was supposed to be a recent personal experience.

"The problem with the concept of infinite love is that not everything is going to appear as love. Just because the truth is brutal on your ego doesn't mean that harm is intended by it."

All of that was clouding something simple though, but something simple didn't work. Go figure.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:00 PM
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Originally posted by SubPop79
reply to post by Jwest06
 


Reality IS an opinion. This universe is only real because of the beings that perceive it. Without anything perceiving the universe, there would be no reality, as the universe wouldn't exist to anyone and might as well be better off having not been created at all.

edit on 23-5-2012 by SubPop79 because: (no reason given)


So, if nothing can exist unless it is perceived, then what brought the original perceiver into existence? If you claim that the original perceiver "always exists", then you're no different than the religionist who just points to whatever god is being embraced as being the Alpha and Omega of everything. You just call your god "universal consciousness". Nothing new. Just a new label.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by Jwest06
I was not of the impression that we could not change something such as falling with our collective consciousness. And it may very well be a different experience entirely for something outside of this form of existence, but in ours and what it means to be human, it is consistently the same.

Assumptions are about as useful as opinions.


Ok that helps get me on the same page with you better.

My only response would be that you are equally making the assumption that you can't, on your own if you were to *actually* believe it... make something hover. But you'd have to believe it with the same conviction as you currently believe it will fall, and thus it's impossible to know for sure without risking "going insane believing in the impossible". You have to believe in the impossible before it becomes possible, but right now you maintain the assumption that it's consistently the same (for the better probably given what we'd do if we could all start flinging things around with our minds, haha).

You don't know if there aren't others out there who are perfectly capable of doing it, just aren't sharing it (for positive or negative reasons, doesn't matter).

It's only consistent in your observation, and while that is the only tool you can work with to navigate, it doesn't mean that your observation is more than an opinion formed from a limited set of information.


Originally posted by Jwest06
I had a rather bizarre dream last night where I murdered a cop in self-defense and then thirty minutes later I'm giving some 10 year old kid advice on dealing with his abusive father. I got the impression that he was a drunk and I was laying on the floor laying beside the kid's bed with him there appearing to be waiting to be tucked in. From what I recall, I gave the advice of, "question everything, never blindly accept an answer as valid" and I stayed in my position of laying there as the father came in the room which is roughly where I woke up. Knowing that some people have shared the same dream before from different perspectives, it did cross my mind wondering if I was just some kid's imaginary friend for a moment. Made me tear up actually, the notion that something that bizarre could possibly be true.


That's a wonderful thing to read... thank you for sharing it!

Namaste.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by SubPop79

Originally posted by Jwest06

Originally posted by TheJourney
Reality is not an opinion, but ANYTHING that could possibly be said about reality IS an opinion. Sounds like you have some opinions in OP...


If I drop something that has weight will it not consistently fall? Is that fact or opinion?


When you speak of it falling, do explain it in its mathematical terms, referring only to formulas? No you don't. I guarantee you never say the object fell with a velocity of blah blah blah in relation to the average atmospheric resistance blah blah blah.

If you don't, and since you don't, whenever you speak, you are "cookie cutting" the truth so that you may be able to explain it in simple, everyday, understandable terms. Because you do this, what you say is subjective and for all intents and purposes, is your opinion.

What about in deep space where there may be no gravity? Can you prove that this is the only universe that exists? Can you prove that gravity is the same in everywhere in the universe? Universal truths have not been proven in either science or philosophy.
edit on 23-5-2012 by SubPop79 because: (no reason given)


Too much distortion that I'm getting tired of responding to. We're on Earth, not in space. The lack of mathmatical terms doesn't make "if something is dropped, it will fall" less true. It just adds more detail to the truth. Those making the spiritual journey should be familiar with the concept. You start out with some basic understanding that develops into a seemingly never-ending complexity as time goes on. I'm unaware of anything that can't be built on.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:04 PM
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In terms of Oneness, there may very well be different perceivers in different dimensions viewing entirely different things. Despite that, we the human race, ultimately count as One perceiver. Our filter is united.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:09 PM
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Originally posted by ErgoTheConfusion

Originally posted by Jwest06
I was not of the impression that we could not change something such as falling with our collective consciousness. And it may very well be a different experience entirely for something outside of this form of existence, but in ours and what it means to be human, it is consistently the same.

Assumptions are about as useful as opinions.


Ok that helps get me on the same page with you better.

My only response would be that you are equally making the assumption that you can't, on your own if you were to *actually* believe it... make something hover. But you'd have to believe it with the same conviction as you currently believe it will fall, and thus it's impossible to know for sure without risking "going insane believing in the impossible". You have to believe in the impossible before it becomes possible, but right now you maintain the assumption that it's consistently the same (for the better probably given what we'd do if we could all start flinging things around with our minds, haha).

You don't know if there aren't others out there who are perfectly capable of doing it, just aren't sharing it (for positive or negative reasons, doesn't matter).

It's only consistent in your observation, and while that is the only tool you can work with to navigate, it doesn't mean that your observation is more than an opinion formed from a limited set of information.


Originally posted by Jwest06
I had a rather bizarre dream last night where I murdered a cop in self-defense and then thirty minutes later I'm giving some 10 year old kid advice on dealing with his abusive father. I got the impression that he was a drunk and I was laying on the floor laying beside the kid's bed with him there appearing to be waiting to be tucked in. From what I recall, I gave the advice of, "question everything, never blindly accept an answer as valid" and I stayed in my position of laying there as the father came in the room which is roughly where I woke up. Knowing that some people have shared the same dream before from different perspectives, it did cross my mind wondering if I was just some kid's imaginary friend for a moment. Made me tear up actually, the notion that something that bizarre could possibly be true.


That's a wonderful thing to read... thank you for sharing it!

Namaste.


I don't disagree with this either, that one person can break the "impossible" if their will is strong enough. I have thought about pushing human evolution as far as what it would take in the past though. For example, say that we wished to fly. To develop the genetic code, it's going to need to be useful in life. You'd need generations upon generations of people to flap their arms and fall from distances to create stress on their legs for a large portion of their lives. Eventually, DNA would get the memo lol.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by Jwest06
They're off in their own self-deluded shades of grey while the truth lies in black and white. The ego holds them captive, out of reach of the truth, in the form of ignoring reality.


When you can quantify infinity or disprove incompleteness, then you can start making statements about certainty or reality [whatever that is].



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by imherejusttoread

Originally posted by Jwest06
They're off in their own self-deluded shades of grey while the truth lies in black and white. The ego holds them captive, out of reach of the truth, in the form of ignoring reality.


When you can quantify infinity or disprove incompleteness, then you can start making statements about certainty or reality [whatever that is].


Is that right?



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by SubPop79

Originally posted by Jwest06

Originally posted by TheJourney
Reality is not an opinion, but ANYTHING that could possibly be said about reality IS an opinion. Sounds like you have some opinions in OP...


If I drop something that has weight will it not consistently fall? Is that fact or opinion?


When you speak of it falling, do explain it in its mathematical terms, referring only to formulas? No you don't. I guarantee you never say the object fell with a velocity of blah blah blah in relation to the average atmospheric resistance blah blah blah.

If you don't, and since you don't, whenever you speak, you are "cookie cutting" the truth so that you may be able to explain it in simple, everyday, understandable terms. Because you do this, what you say is subjective and for all intents and purposes, is your opinion.

What about in deep space where there may be no gravity? Can you prove that this is the only universe that exists? Can you prove that gravity is the same in everywhere in the universe? Universal truths have not been proven in either science or philosophy.
edit on 23-5-2012 by SubPop79 because: (no reason given)


You seem to have trouble with the concept of relative reality being different than the black and white nature of simple, stark "two-value" reality. I suggest you look into the difference between Set Logic and Boolean Logic. While Set Logic is the basis of all mathematics, Boolean Logic is extremely rigid and does not allow for the influence of contextual modifiers in the way that Set Logic does. You can claim that Boolean two-value Logic doesn't exist, but if you do, then you'll have a hell of a time explaining how your own computer works. Digital electronics is totally based on Boolean two-value Logic, and dismissing its existence doesn't make it nonexistent. It just reveals your own ignorance of what is real and provable.

Reality is a term (like Logic) that most people get confused with, and on this board that confusion is particularly evident. If you can't understand the terms, then forget about the concepts being represented by those terms.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Jwest06
I don't disagree with this either, that one person can break the "impossible" if their will is strong enough. I have thought about pushing human evolution as far as what it would take in the past though. For example, say that we wished to fly. To develop the genetic code, it's going to need to be useful in life. You'd need generations upon generations of people to flap their arms and fall from distances to create stress on their legs for a large portion of their lives. Eventually, DNA would get the memo lol.

/salute! Will be interesting watching the current rule set we're constrained by develop over time to see what happens.

My only disagreement is that my opinion views DNA changes as the effect, not the cause. At least in our style of experiencing time/order of events.


Namaste.
edit on 2012/5/23 by ErgoTheConfusion because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by imherejusttoread

Originally posted by Jwest06
They're off in their own self-deluded shades of grey while the truth lies in black and white. The ego holds them captive, out of reach of the truth, in the form of ignoring reality.


When you can quantify infinity or disprove incompleteness, then you can start making statements about certainty or reality [whatever that is].


The word infinity doesn't actually describe anything but an imaginary notion. Quantum physics debunked infinity 100 years ago. Look it up if you don't believe me.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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Too much distortion that I'm getting tired of responding to. We're on Earth, not in space. The lack of mathmatical terms doesn't make "if something is dropped, it will fall" less true. It just adds more detail to the truth. Those making the spiritual journey should be familiar with the concept. You start out with some basic understanding that develops into a seemingly never-ending complexity as time goes on. I'm unaware of anything that can't be built on.


"We're on Earth, not in space." 'If you drop something it will fall' is firstly relative to being on earth, and its implied mass and atmospheric conditions and gravitational forces at work, etc. So firstly, any of these statements may be 'true,' but RELATIVELY true. Relative to certain conditions, certain results follow. Thus it is relative truth, not ultimate/inherent truth of reality. Beyond this, all conclusions we make like this are based on past observations. So, beyond the relativity, we could most accurately state 'Based on the conditions that have existed in the time of recorded observations, it seems that dropping something correlates to falling,' and make the assumptions things wil continue in this way. So any 'true' statement is both relative and assuming past conditions will continue to be met in the future.

But alas, I'm in deeper than I intended now...I now feel like devil's advocate...
edit on 23-5-2012 by TheJourney because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by Jwest06
Is that right?


Quite. If the opposite was the case, Bertrand Russell's work in his Principle of Mathematics volumes and Einstein's work on relativity would have been the final say in all of modern science.



posted on May, 23 2012 @ 06:34 PM
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Originally posted by NorEaster
The word infinity doesn't actually describe anything but an imaginary notion. Quantum physics debunked infinity 100 years ago. Look it up if you don't believe me.


That's rather false. Quantum mechanics puts a limit on how much can be known precisely because of infinity. This was the point of renormalization.

The uncertainty principle in physics is analogous to the incompleteness theorems in mathematics.



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