Five reasons why gay marriage is a basic, conservative value

reply to post by adigregorio
Not really, because before it was about homosexuals, gay also meant being about people of "loose moral character". As in "being gay in a speakeasy". The transition to being about homosexuality through another stop was rather natural: re: "gay cats". Etymology of Gay:
reply to post by adigregorio
I don't agree with absolutes being subjective. But I do know that even if there is an absolute right or wrong on any given issue, we're not capable of seeing in those absolutes, at all, so effectively, it's the same outcome.
reply to post by Procession101 Frankly, no it's not this obvious, although your intent was. There is a certain segment of the Republican party that is Anti-Gay. There's a certain segment that is Pro-Gay. Then there's the 3rd segment which states consistently, it's none of their freaking business. Same thing in the Democratic party. Hence why Obama changed his mind on the subject, and why Romney has waffled on it too. Too many people are split over the decision in their party. Really, the largest segment I see in anything but the upper tier is the "don't care about it" segment. Now, those with ties to "the religious right"? That's where the predominant amount of Republicans who are anti-gay-marriage are. But, at the same time, those who vote for the RR ideals aren't often voting over the gay issue, they are voting over the pro -life issue, but are getting to see more press on the other part. But, and this is a big but: they way Republicans are portrayed is that they're totally Anti-Gay.
reply to post by PurpleChitenAbove comment gets into it a little. Not a the RR is specifically AGM, but since it's a boxed set of beliefs that they wind up voting for, they get stuck with the AGM. Put it to you this way: I, in the past, have voted RR. I've never really cared about whether or not Gays got married--they're outsiders to me, and what outsiders do outside of my faith, is plain not my business. But when I vote RR, I'm stuck with a platform that makes a big deal out of it. Some platforms I still vote, to this day, RR. But really, if I've got the option of all the things I'm looking for, without the Gay rights issues being brought up, I vote that way. (A.k.a. Ron Paul.) Many of those I grew up with have the same issues about this subject.
reply to post by Annee
Part of that deafening silence is also that many of us don't want a public fight. As in the attitude of, "You, who are an outsider, have no business in my business." But really, it has to do with our platform. I can give you a link to a buddy from face book who knows were to find all the religious outcry you could wish for, on it, since I don't spend my time looking it up. Really, the outright vitriolic anti-gays are far more sensational, and are better for airtime--forget if and when the media wants to choose sides.

Originally posted by LightInside I do find it very rude and close minded how people talk about gay people as if they are mute, blind, and simply experiments and debate over them.

I may not agree with everything you stated, but this is extremely important, and needs to be considered. People on both sides of this mess don't have a horse in this race, but insist on training them.
reply to post by Benevolent HereticThat's why we call what's going on, "Winning the Battle, but loosing the war".
But it upsets Muslims, Jews are split, Some Hindus are hesitant, ect. Believe me, gender preference isn't only causing just Christians to freak out, no more than it's causing ONLY Christians to freak out. But as far as why it will die out with Christianity in this country is that Christianity is still the dominant religion of our society. If Islam was, we'd still have the same problem. If some of the others were, it could be the same issue--kind of iffy, that.


Damn, only to page 11? Why do y'all have to post so much when I've only been gone for 4 hours? No wonder I took a hiatus of 6 months this last time. lol!

Originally posted by kaylaluv
Gays don't want your moral support. They want equality. Either everyone gets a civil union, or everyone gets a marriage license. Then, you have equality.

If we wish to examine whether gay relationships really are equal to heterosexual relationships, that can be examined from an objective, factual point of view.

I was surprised to find that, according to a Canadian government study and a study by the American College of Paediatricians, domestic violence is much more common in gay relationships.

A recent study by the Canadian government regarding homosexual couples states that "violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples".

According the American College of Paediatricians, who cite several studies, violence among homosexual couples is two to three times more common than among married heterosexual couples

Link

Homosexuals also, according to the American College of Paediatricians are significantly more prone to have shorter relationships than heterosexual couples.

"Homosexual partnerships are significantly more prone to dissolution than heterosexual marriages with the average homosexual relationship lasting only two to three years."

Link

Emotional abuse in gay relationships also appears relatively common.

The Journal of Social Service Research reported in 1991 that survey of 1,099 lesbians showed that slightly more than 50 percent of the lesbians reported that they had been abused by a female lover/partner, "the most frequently indicated forms of abuse were verbal/emotional/psychological abuse and combined physical-psychological abuse."

Another study indicated that 83% of homosexuals report they have been emotionally abused by homosexual partners.

Link

Are gay relationships equal to heterosexual relationships?

It could be argued that they are on a moral basis, although many would disagree. The fact remains, according to studies, that domestic violence has been found to be two to three times more common than in heterosexual relationships, homosexual relationships also appear to be significantly shorter and emotional abuse also appears to be a significant issue.

Should society be encouraging such relationships by sanctioning gay marriage?

Perhaps, but it is incorrect to assert that gay marriages are 'equal' to heterosexual marriages.

Significant differences, apart from the obvious biological ones, do exist.

reply to post by ollncasino

Emotional abuse in gay relationships also appears relatively common.

For this reason, they may be eventually glad that the Church also changed it's position on divorce as well.

Originally posted by ollncasino

A recent study by the Canadian government regarding homosexual couples states that "violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples".

According the American College of Paediatricians, who cite several studies, violence among homosexual couples is two to three times more common than among married heterosexual couples

Link

I want you to read that
the study was between husband and wife to compare to a gay couple.
Why?
Why not compare boyfriend/girlfriend to couple?

Oh, because then you will find that its equal..since there is no way to judge who a potential married gay couple would be for equal study.

this is skewed tests.
Let me see who gets more shark bites..someone in a shark pool, or someone on an elevator near a shark pool..

You see the agenda?
Many abused people leave their boyfriend/girlfriend before they get married.
your study compared the married (tried and tested relationship) to gay couples that may be a week old as the same thing.

trash. total trash. put whomever did that study out of business just for trying to corrupt information to push an agenda.


ADD: Just clicked on the link to actually see the study done
its conservapedia...aka, parody of reality...heh..cute.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by RealSpoke
So you wouldn't have held respect for black people during the civil rights movement because they went against democracy?

Was Black people being discriminated in the South supported by the majority of American people?

I don't believe it was.

Basically... discrimination against black Americans, was perfomed all over the United States, since the first black people arrived on our shores as slaves; only that discrimination was perfomed more so in the South against African American's.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I guess those codes were made in a time when marriage almost certainly resulted in children. The state should stay out of marriage and render more and other options to people to legalize their union, instead of turning marriage into a contract.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
For this reason, they may be eventually glad that the Church also changed it's position on divorce as well.

Its funny you should mention that.

First Same-Sex Couple Married in California Getting Divorced

The lesbian couple whose legal struggle helped pave the way for gay marriage in California is getting divorced.

During the campaign over Proposition 8 – the voter-approved initiative that ultimately overturned the court’s decision and banned gay marriage – Olson and Tyler appeared in campaign ads asking the voters to not “take our marriage away.”

abcnews

Kind of ironic that the first gay couple who campaigned so hard for the right to get married in California now want a divorce.

They must have changed their mind.

Originally posted by ollncasino

They must have changed their mind.

Just thought of something.

Why not let everyone get married
and just put a federal ban on divorce.

that would get people doing long term considering...

Originally posted by ollncasino


I was surprised to find that, according to a Canadian government study and a study by the American College of Paediatricians, domestic violence is much more common in gay relationships.

Surprisingly, I have found data that says the rates of domestic violence in same-sex relationships is about the same as heterosexual relationships. That would make them about.... EQUAL.

Research indicates that domestic violence among same-sex couples occurs at similar rates as domestic violence among straight couples. Unfortunately, domestic violence victims in same-sex relationships are not receiving the help they need. This is due to the lack of legal recognition of same-sex relationships, law enforcement’s failure to identity and properly handle domestic violence cases involving people of the same sex, and the shortage of resources available to victims of same-sex partner domestic abuse.

www.americanprogress.org...

As noted above, critics of gays and lesbians often use citations of higher rates of domestic violence as "proof" that gay and lesbian relationships are dysfunctional. On the one hand, as noted earlier, these numbers may not be accurate. Results based on questions about the presence domestic violence might be inflated, results based on questions about the absence of violence should not be subject to the same problems. Gardner (1989) had straight, gay, and lesbian couples rate the violence in their relationship on a scale ranging from 36 (no violence) to 288 (severe violence). The average score for straight couples was 38.51, for gay couples was 39.6, and for lesbian couples was 40.22. Thus, as noted earlier, there is some reason to believe that the incidence of domestic violence in gay and lesbian couples may not be any higher than in straight couples. Thus, non-violent relationships would seem as prevalent in the gay and lesbian community as in the straight community.

www.psychpage.com...

Oh lord where to begin.

First off beginning with the votes in 31 states: I personally would never want to be judged in the court of public opinion, would you? I suspect that if you were to put up a vote against any group that is largely defined by inappropriate and misunderstood stereotypes that most people would vote against them. Especially knowing that their votes would be anonymous. Hell if I threw up your internet postings and a vote to ban you from the United States how many people do you think would vote to expatriate you? That is why civil rights for any group have never been defined by vote. We live in a republic not a democracy, we vote for people who we feel will represent us. Democracies are by definition exclusive of minorities.

As far as changing the definition of marriage: who cares, language evolves all the time. The argument about gays being so adamant about changing is subject to the rebuttal of why are you so adamant about keeping it the same. Just because something has been that way for a long time didn't make it right. T there are countless examples of that.

Homosexuals do have an agenda, and it is simply stated as ”please stop making us feel ashamed and embarrassed to be who we are.” It is thrown in your face because you're shoving your face in it. It's like if there is a pie on the table and you smash your face into it and get mad at the table.

Homosexuals engage in heterosexual activities. Heterosexuals engage in homosexual activities. Sexual orientation is not black and white. It's actually much more loosely practiced than it is defined. that is a simple fact that for some reason people cannot accept.

If you want to know how bad organized religion can get, click my signature.

Also you may think gay sex is gross, but I think vaginas are gross.

This is not a response to any one person, but it is a general response to the thread.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I want you to read that

the study was between husband and wife to compare to a gay couple.

Why?

Why not compare boyfriend/girlfriend to couple?

Can you quote the part of the report that says they were comparing married couples with unmarried couples?

I can't find what you are referring to.

The page clearly states it was comparing hetrosexual couples with homosexual couples. It doesn't say anything about whether anyone was married or not.

• A recent study by the Canadian government regarding homosexual couples states that "violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples".

• According the American College of Paediatricians who cite several studies violence among homosexual couples is two to three times more common than among married heterosexual couples

Link

reply to post by SaturnFX

Why not compare boyfriend/girlfriend to couple?

Because marriage is the issue? It is much more difficult to leave a marriage than a casual relationship.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Why not compare boyfriend/girlfriend to couple?

Because marriage is the issue? It is much more difficult to leave a marriage than a casual relationship.

There is also a lot more consideration between married and unmarried.
I can hook up with someone tomorrow
in a relationship, yes? check.
tomorrow I get smacked around...in a abusive relationship? check
won't be getting married then

this study is married couples (potentially dating for years with no abuse) and puts it on the same level as someone whom has been dating for a week..

its apples to oranges.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I want you to read that

the study was between husband and wife to compare to a gay couple.

Why?

Why not compare boyfriend/girlfriend to couple?

Can you quote the part of the report that says they were comparing married couples with unmarried couples?

I can't find what you are referring to.

The page clearly states it was comparing hetrosexual couples with homosexual couples. It doesn't say anything about whether anyone was married or not.

• A recent study by the Canadian government regarding homosexual couples states that "violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples".

• According the American College of Paediatricians who cite several studies violence among homosexual couples is two to three times more common than among married heterosexual couples

Link

I am not sure why your not seeing the word "married" behind one set of couples and not the other.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Why not compare boyfriend/girlfriend to couple?

Because marriage is the issue? It is much more difficult to leave a marriage than a casual relationship.

There is also a lot more consideration between married and unmarried.
I can hook up with someone tomorrow
in a relationship, yes? check.
tomorrow I get smacked around...in a abusive relationship? check
won't be getting married then

this study is married couples (potentially dating for years with no abuse) and puts it on the same level as someone whom has been dating for a week..

its apples to oranges.

Well, I thought serious gay couples dating monogamously for many years wanted to be married and indeed feel that piece of paper is valuable? Isn't that the only thing separating them from their desired equality status with hetero?

reply to post by ollncasino


So answer if have respect for the black people that went against the democracy during the civil rights movement?

reply to post by ollncasino


Regardless of your personal opinions about gay civil marriage: Do you agree with me, that laws against same-sex civil marriages is a violation of the 14th Amendment of the Bill of Rights, as stated in the Constitution of the United States America, which was adopted in 1868, that overturned the "atrocious" Dred Scott ruling and guaranteed full citizenship rights to black Americans in the wake of the Civil War?

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I want you to read that

the study was between husband and wife to compare to a gay couple.

Why?

Why not compare boyfriend/girlfriend to couple?

Can you quote the part of the report that says they were comparing married couples with unmarried couples?

I can't find what you are referring to.

The page clearly states it was comparing hetrosexual couples with homosexual couples. It doesn't say anything about whether anyone was married or not.

• A recent study by the Canadian government regarding homosexual couples states that "violence was twice as common among homosexual couples compared with heterosexual couples".

• According the American College of Paediatricians who cite several studies violence among homosexual couples is two to three times more common than among married heterosexual couples

Link

I am not sure why your not seeing the word "married" behind one set of couples and not the other.

Saturn, it looks to me like there are two separate studies being cited, one involving married couples and one not specifying...actually more than two...

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


It's not about paper

What if I said parents who have joint custody of their children could no longer call themselves parents but had to be legally recognized and referred to as ”caretakers”?

Think about it that way and maybe you'll understand why homosexuals want to be recognized as and call themselves ”married” instead of ”civilly unionized”.

Originally posted by libertytoall



I brought up Ron Paul because he believes it's unconstitutional for the government to give out marriage certificates in the first place. It's unconstitutional for the government to define marriage. It's unconstitutional to disallow two individuals from pursuing happiness if it doesn't harm anyone else. Ron Paul is the only candidate who truly believes in personal freedom across the board. Freedom for everyone.

No, just another political hack

btw, do you realize the picture in your signiture line looks like the head of Paul Rubens (PeeWee Herman)?