Five reasons why gay marriage is a basic, conservative value

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Why not compare boyfriend/girlfriend to couple?

Because marriage is the issue? It is much more difficult to leave a marriage than a casual relationship.

There is also a lot more consideration between married and unmarried.
I can hook up with someone tomorrow
in a relationship, yes? check.
tomorrow I get smacked around...in a abusive relationship? check
won't be getting married then

this study is married couples (potentially dating for years with no abuse) and puts it on the same level as someone whom has been dating for a week..

its apples to oranges.

Well, I thought serious gay couples dating monogamously for many years wanted to be married and indeed feel that piece of paper is valuable? Isn't that the only thing separating them from their desired equality status with hetero?

edit on 23-5-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

Yes, and once that is allowed, then a proper study can be done on domestic violent percentages between hetrosexual and homosexual married couples.

Until then, its simply a skewed and useless statistic.

Originally posted by kaylaluv
Surprisingly, I have found data that says the rates of domestic violence in same-sex relationships is about the same as heterosexual relationships. That would make them about.... EQUAL.

So who is correct?

The Canadian government study and the one by the American College of Paediatricians into domestic violence which state that domestic violence is two to three times more common in gay relationships or the Gay and Lesbian Resources page by a private psychiatrist you quote from?

I notice that the Gay and Lesbian Resources page you quote from doesn't mention the Canadian government study or the one by the American College of Paediatricians.

Well you hear about a lot more hetero couples killing each other than you do gay ones. Point? Nothing. It is silly to say gay people's right to equality is diminished based on "well, seems homo couples get in to domestics more", just the simple fact people of any sexuality get in to them makes them equal.

Originally posted by dbloch7986
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

 

It's not about paper

What if I said parents who have joint custody of their children could no longer call themselves parents but had to be legally recognized and referred to as ”caretakers”?

Think about it that way and maybe you'll understand why homosexuals want to be recognized as and call themselves ”married” instead of ”civilly unionized”.

My point is what is the defining point of the relationship aside from the paper? Are they serious? Are they dating others? Do they reside together? Don't you think that matters in terms of how they are perceived as getting along,or in how they are perceived as being married without the paper? And yes it is about the paper or there would no longer be an issue would there?

Anyway, the original OP is about the premise that gays who want to get married are preserving conservative traditionand values through the action. Yes, in the sense that they are possibly ditching the "lifestyle" they are renowned for, that is casual sex and lack of monogamy. No in the sense that they are trying to redefine what societies over many centuries have traditionally defined as one man and one woman. A toss up if you ask me.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I am not sure why your not seeing the word "married" behind one set of couples and not the other.

My bad. I am tired.

reply to post by CynicalDrivel


Totally see your side of the argument, thanks for the thoughtful, intelligent response sir.

2nd line.

Originally posted by something wicked


Why are you on RPs side? He will let states decide. He doesn't flip flop because he will put that pressure on the states. You will end up with the Gay States, the Abortion States, the Drug Free States..... you will end up with an absolute mess.

And it'll all culminate in another civil war

Originally posted by ollncasino


Thank you for a well expressed reply.

In the UK gays already have legal equality via civil unions.

Nonetheless, the UK gay movement is pressing for the legal definition of marriage to be changed to include gay civil unions.

They are no longer pressing for legal rights (they already have those) but rather for moral support from the majority.

If the majority choose to withhold that moral support, then that is their right.

While I imagine the majority of British people are indifferent or support gay civil unions, only 34% of British people support gay marriage.

Separate but equal does not work.
The majority in the US many, many years ago didn't support blacks and whites using the same facilities, but that didn't last either.
In case you didn't realize it, the US is not part of the UK, we whipped their backsides and sent them sailing back for home a long time ago. They're allowed to visit now and we're nice to them, but they don't run the show on this side of the Atlantic.

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by RealSpoke
So you wouldn't have held respect for black people during the civil rights movement because they went against democracy?

Was Black people being discriminated in the South supported by the majority of American people?

I don't believe it was.

Hate to say it but yes, the states that have slavery also had a majority of people supporting it

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Yes, and once that is allowed, then a proper study can be done on domestic violent percentages between hetrosexual and homosexual married couples.

Until then, its simply a skewed and useless statistic.

You are perhaps correct.

However, this may interest you.

The National Criminal Victimization Survey for 1993 to 1999 reported that 0.24% of married women and 0.035% of married men were victims of domestic violence annually versus 4.6% of the men and 5.8% of the women reporting same-sex partnerships.

Domestic violence appears to be more frequently reported in same-sex partnerships than among the married.

LInk

The study itself put the difference down to gays being more likely to report domestic violence.

As you say, the fact that gays are not married may also be a factor causing gays to report domestic violence x15 plus more often than hetrosexuals.

reply to post by dorkfish87


This word "discriminate" gets thrown about so loosely (indiscriminately!!!). Is it OK if we discriminate against people who torture animals? How about those who molest children? Can we discriminate against them? Or axe murderers... I think you get the point. I'm sick and tired of people saying we shouldn't discriminate! So dumb.

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by Annee

 

Is not the official US motto... I prefer the preamble to the US Constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I know what E Pluribus Unum is and means. It is my choice. And when I was a child it was on our paper money. Which it should be again.

And of course you know when the Constitution talks about Free Men - - in means White Land Owners.

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
In case you didn't realize it, the US is not part of the UK, we whipped their backsides and sent them sailing back for home a long time ago. They're allowed to visit now and we're nice to them, but they don't run the show on this side of the Atlantic.

Fear not. No one thinks the UK runs your side of the Atlantic.

Gay marriage however is a hot potato issue in the UK as well as in the USA at the moment.

Of course, the fact that both Obama and the British PM are trying to deflect attention away from the economy has nothing to do with their new found enthusiasm for gay marriage...

Originally posted by Procession101
reply to post by iIuminaIi

 

Wow, do you seriously think nature or in that any other force punished pompeii for housing a large amount of

homosexuals? LOL I personally believe it had more to do with building a freaking city on and around mt. vesuvius.

Nah, God was protecting them from the volcano until they let all those evil ho-mo-sects-u-alls in (sarcasm, I do not believe this in any way, shape or form)

Originally posted by ollncasino

If we wish to examine whether gay relationships really are equal to heterosexual relationships, that can be examined from an objective, factual point of view.

Not by using "conservapedia" you can't!!! sheeesh, you may as well use "these are the lies you are allowed to tell...abridged edition" LMAO

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by ollncasino

They must have changed their mind.

Just thought of something.

Why not let everyone get married
and just put a federal ban on divorce.

that would get people doing long term considering...

Dude, I been sayin that for like 10 pages now!

Originally posted by ollncasino

Can you quote the part of the report that says they were comparing married couples with unmarried couples?

I can't find what you are referring to.

The page clearly states it was comparing hetrosexual couples with homosexual couples. It doesn't say anything about whether anyone was married or not.

* According the American College of Paediatricians who cite several studies violence among homosexual couples is two to three times more common than among married heterosexual couples

Well, since it was done by the "American College of Paediatricians", it would have to be in unmarried couples since children aren't allowed to get married and that's the age group that paediatricians deal with

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
Not by using "conservapedia" you can't!!! sheeesh, you may as well use "these are the lies you are allowed to tell...abridged edition"

Good point.

I like to read the original sources but the links from the page to the study by Canadian government which found domestic violence between homosexual couples was twice the rate of hetrosexual couples and the study by American College of Paediatricians who cite several studies that show violence among homosexual couples is two to three times more common than among married heterosexual couples were broken.

I will however find the original studies on the bodys' homepages.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by MsAphrodite
reply to post by Annee

 

Is not the official US motto... I prefer the preamble to the US Constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

I know what E Pluribus Unum is and means. It is my choice. And when I was a child it was on our paper money. Which it should be again.

And of course you know when the Constitution talks about Free Men - - in means White Land Owners.

Are you completely sure about this Annie?

Up to one-half of all the arrivals in the American colonies were Whites slaves and they were America's first slaves. These Whites were slaves for life, long before Blacks ever were. This slavery was even hereditary. White children born to White slaves were enslaved too.

Whites were auctioned on the block with children sold and separated from their parents and wives sold and separated from their husbands. Free Black property owners strutted the streets of northern and southern American cities while White slaves were worked to death in the sugar mills of Barbados and Jamaica and the plantations of Virginia.

The Establishment has created the misnomer of "indentured servitude" to explain away and minimize the fact of White slavery. But bound Whites in early America called themselves slaves. Nine-tenths of the White slavery in America was conducted without indentures of any kind but according to the so-called "custom of the country," as it was known, which was lifetime slavery administered by the White slave merchants themselves.

www.revisionisthistory.org...

Michael A. Hoffman II

Originally posted by PurpleChiten
Well, since it was done by the "American College of Paediatricians", it would have to be in unmarried couples since children aren't allowed to get married and that's the age group that paediatricians deal with

Are you 14 years old?

I thought I was talking to an adult but I appear to have been mistaken.

Do you really think that the American College of Paediatricians doesn't carry out wider research?