Bug-out w/o guns.

Hi Fellas.

I was thinking abot the possible future need for me to 'evacuate from this place'. Whatever the reason (civil unrest, war, the downfall of fukushima and the sudden raise in terms of radiation) is, in this imaginary future scenario, in the present, I have absolutely no means of getting a gun. It costs a ton of money around here. Although I have enough experience with a variety of handguns, bbguns and long guns, and I am a year above the legal limit, it is just too damn expensive.

I have recently been to a hunters shop, and I was curious about what I'd need to own a gun. I explained that I need it for survival reasons, and that I have absolutely no history of aggression related violence(means I never actually hurt anybody without provocation), and that I simply need a gun to defend my home of intruders, and a means of hunting in case of a particular kind of cr*p hitting that fan.
From what I know about guns, I would need a semi-automatic long gun which fires 9 milimeter ammunition. They are kind of accurate, and the ammo is a lot cheaper.
The only problem is: I haven't got the kind of money. I don't know about you, the people of the red-white-and-blue, but here, guns are kind of illegal, and because of the legal issues, owning a gun costs a ton of money. Here, the minimum wage is around 60grands(forint) in a month. Which is about 259 dollars.(for security reasons, I won't disclose my income) Now, just buying a gun would cost me around 170grand(which is around 728 bucks) but the medical and legal examinations throw on another 30 grand(128 bucks). Together this would be about 200k(856 bucks).

Now this is the kind of money, I can't afford. I am not an enterpreneur, a drug dealer, or a thief, so I have absolutely no idea how to, or what to. To acquire this kind of money, I would need to work for at around four months, without eating, or heating, or spending anything.
I was thinking about custom making a gun with a blacksmith, or even getting some illegal straps from below the border, I just couldn't bring myself to it. Not that I have any regard for legality. I wish not to go to jail. But my life is more important, so I am kind of in between crap.
Now, for all of you gun haters, let me tell you that I sleep better with them than without them. With a gun, statistically there's around a 0.02 chance that I will accidentaly shoot myself somehow, without it, there are all kinds of possibilities of things killin me in me sleep. A lot of things possible.

There's this idea of mine, building a crossbow with a car's spring leaf, and a custom made rolling block firing mechanism, I just could not figure out what to use to 'pull it up'(don't know the right word) I haven't any relevant physical strenght. But the point is that I kind of fear that I'll need to evac someday, and I'll not have the right equipment for long range hunting or self defense. Fortunately(kinda) I could go south a few miles, and could go to a few markets(actual markets) where I can buy all kinds of things ranging from an AK47, to even grenades, relatively cheaply. But I am a little reluctant of this option. I could settle with a hand gun(though I wish not to. I love long guns. I am this much more accurate with them.), Or I could even build a medieval long range weapon by my own. I don't consider the bow, a good choice. For this, I have many reasons, but this isn't really a good option(IMHO) so I'll pass it.

First of all, I would like to hear arguments. What'd you do to acquire some long range weaponry without essentially spending much, or involving the authorities. Not that I wan't to do anything illegal, but I don't like them and I don't want to involve them. If you think you know a better alternative, or you have arguments on one of the weapons I mentioned above, feel free to post. I wouldn't like the preachings of the gun haters. They kind of bugger me off(letting the civilians be disarmed is both stupied and a very bad sign) If you wish not to use guns, that is your choice, but you will not turn my opinion. A few thousand pages on gun owning was perfectly enough to convince me.
Thanks in advance.
P.S.: Also, If you know about cheap 9mm firing relatively reliable long guns, please, inform me about them. And Please, adhere to the topic.
Keep up the good fight.

add: Also, It would be important to have one with more range, and one I can swing easily. Mainly because I plan on bringing a single companion(who physically would not be able to use anything more than a simple handgun), but it is important to be versatile. Also, this two would preferably use the same caliber. Better to ration, and less suspicious to get just one type of round.

reply to post by Narcissous


9mm long gun? What gun shop are you getting advice from? 9mm is a pistol round, unless you have a submachine gun, but even those aren't considered "long guns". There are more 9mm variants where you are, I think, but stick to a NATO round whatever you choose. I would consider a military platform with maybe a retracting or folding stock for portability. I do believe that in a SHTF scenario, the guys with the hunting/sniper rifles are going to be better positioned to defeat any threats - they'll be at a safer distance and have more options for retreat.

reply to post by AwakeinNM


There's a variety actually. Look it up. Yes, I know it becomes quite inaccurate after 120 yards, but it is cheap. And unfortunately, cheap is the most important part now. I barely can afford a single gun, even less a sniper rifle. The ammo's cheap too. Although you do stir me to a path I wish to walk. I love long range and precision. The problem is, that in this case, I would need to get guns under the fence(if I plan on getting this kind of accurateness and firepower.) I kind of dislike the idea of being put away for a gun I plan only using in a survival scenario, and my country kind of views guns as means of terrorism, killing, and other hellish ends. I would be banged in the ass for one. It would be easier to prove that I did not plan on murdering anyone if I can prove the gun can not be used to jack up someone from a building.
Also, scopes are regulated here(along with laser pointers...) I think I would be convicted twice for it. Still want it though...

have you looked into black powder weapons? Generally they are cheaper and in a lot of places easier to procur legally. The bonus is not being limited to one caliber of cartridge. Get a cast and you can use other rounds to keep yourself in ammo. The downside is firing speed and multi-shot ability.

Second. Whatever you get "practice, practice, practice". I can give the greatest weapon in the world to a novice and they wouldn't hit a barn at 200 meters. But when you get to know your weapon, you will know it's capabilities.

reply to post by 200Plus


Actually, my father(when he still cared) taught me how to use everything from knives to guns. Bows, crossbows, tasers. The best I was with a long gun, of course. So you could tell I am experienced. Also I would try it out. See the drag, and all, but I am no stranger to the world of weapons. Guess it's good to have someone a family, who was both soldier, and a hack in prison, and is a close acquintance of a retired french foreign legionnaire. So I think my knowledge is not that much of a source of concern.
Single shot weapons are the most suited for me. From the hand gun point of view, a common revolver is the one I like the best. If you could give me every handgun, I'd choose the Colt Single Action Army. I both know it very well, and is a suberb handgun in every aspect. Plus revolvers load much slower, so needing to keep it in mind, I'd have to be spare with the rounds, and it is a good thing, I think. 6 shots is enough, if there's a good cover in the vicinity, but that's just planning ahead.

add: You kind of nailed it with the black powder guns. I think that's a real option I did not have in mind. Thanks. You now officially have been helpful.

Originally posted by AwakeinNM
reply to post by Narcissous

 

9mm long gun? What gun shop are you getting advice from? 9mm is a pistol round, unless you have a submachine gun, but even those aren't considered "long guns". There are more 9mm variants where you are, I think, but stick to a NATO round whatever you choose. I would consider a military platform with maybe a retracting or folding stock for portability. I do believe that in a SHTF scenario, the guys with the hunting/sniper rifles are going to be better positioned to defeat any threats - they'll be at a safer distance and have more options for retreat.

2nd post and the FUD has already begun, there are plenty of 9mm long guns. Beretta CX Storm, Marlin camp carbine and the colt (or other variant) 9mm AR carbine just to name a few, all are considered long gun (not sub-machine guns) in the states and elsewhere. Also the 9mm is a NATO round, so yeah stick with it.

reply to post by minesweeper


I consider it important to stick to one shot or semi-automatic guns, maybe you could list a few. I see you have more knowledge on this matter. 'til now, I kind of practiced on what I could, also, it would be easier to acquire nato weapons, since I live in Europe, general issued weapons from the balkans would be good too. There's a ton of them around here. But I can't really handle an automatic(don't want to either. loud, messy, and just eat rounds too fast.) Weapons with three round burst capabilities would suffice, but I'd prefer one which can alter between burst and single.
I am not prone to panic attacks, but I fear I would spray my load away too fast in a survival situation.

reply to post by Narcissous


No problem, all 3 guns I listed are semi-auto. The AR carbine can come in select-fire (3 round or full auto) but anything select fire is far more regulated in most countries if not outright banned. There are more types and configurations out there (just to clear things up, long-gun refers to any shoulder fired non-concealable firearm) most major manufactures produce a variant of some sort or another. The advantage of the Beretta and Marlin are they accept pistol mags for feeding, the CX uses PX pistol mags (.40 or 9mm) and the Marlin (Ruger P89 9mm or 1911 .45 mag). The CX is new production but the Marlin is discontinued (used market only), so you would have a better chance of finding the CX were you live.
Not really sure what’s issued in the Balkans or what is legal for you to own and register where you’re at. You can also look into a civilian version of the HK MP5 (NATO sub-gun) in semi auto. They come with either fixed or collapsible stocks, 9mm or .40, are very accurate and used the world over. HK also did offer a civy version of the UMP 45 in the states for a time, it may also still be available to you.

reply to post by Narcissous


I'm not sure what part of the world are you in pal..... BUT... If there is a market to buy guns at a cheaper rate unregistered, go there. Oh and get the AK you can't go wrong you can use motor oil as a last ditch for gun oil.
it last forever and easy to use.

But who the heck told you a 9mm rifle? that guy can't tell his A--hole from his elbows. The only good 9mm would be an AR. Is it a 9mm parabellum (pistol) or a 9mm (swiss made) mauser rife? THOSE will cost a kidney to just buy...... A decent 9mm carbine I had was made by Kel-tech (the 2000 model) it can use Glock mags (the 33 round ones ) easy for beginners.

I think you may need to study up a little on firearms, but I hope this helps.

Think outside the box.

look at military surplus, if avaible to you. SKS is a quality semi-auto rifle, using the same ammo as the AK, the Moisn-Nagant, is a good solid bolt action rifle. open your perspective, and look for what is avaible to you at your price range.

or just pull one from a dead guy laying around,

don't forget to clear the jam

reply to post by Danbones


I kind of like your picture, signature and location. BTW, I am kind of drawn towards muzzleloaders. Failsafe would be a revolver. Looking at the blueprints, I could make one myself. how valid is using one today? Because in this country, legally owning a gun is almost impossible(protect the armed thugs!) you could either go besides legal, or use museal weaponry. I heard they are powerful and accurate, with the only downside being hard to load.

Buy it used.. go to a gun show and haggle. Thats what I do for my guns becuse Im cheapskate and refuse to pay gun shop prices.

FYI.. Id NEVER bug out without a firearm. Then again Im female and all of 5'4", but people are crazy when theyre desperate. Without a weapon, youre a sitting duck.

reply to post by Narcissous


The Northern side of the family are metis...part native.
wwe were taught early without guns to hunt and fish..
because sometimes the ultimate form of rebellion is to live well...

guns may be a short cut...but sometimes the hard way is the easy way.

INHO traps can be a fascinating form of ingenuity for example.
they can be adapted from what is avaliable to fullfill many types of stratagies too
then follow Rebellender's advice re cold dead hands.

I thought that vid re shot gun was interesting

reply to post by Danbones

Thanks. There are even simpler ways to make single shot concealable "zip guns". Stuff like this would be used only to get you a better gun, if you know what I mean.

dont really know of 9mm long range guns. 9mm would have a fast drop in long ranges. If you want to get any range go for the .223 or 5.56, nearly the same round, good for close to medium range and the .308 for long range.

boy i love my .308! hit a quarter from 50 yards yesterday on the first shoot!

dont forget your side arm, I would go for the .40 for close ranges up to 25 feet when you cant reach for the .223 in time.

I reccomend 2 rifles, and you can get both for around $300.

You can pick up a Mosin Nagant for $99-$129. It shoots a large 7.62X54R round. The ammo is currently plentiful and you can pick up 880 rounds of surplus ammo for about $160.

en.wikipedia.org...
7.62x54r.net...

The second would be a classic Marlin Model 60. This is a .22 long rifle, with exceptional accuracy and runs about $160. It uses a plentiful ammunition and the rounds are as cheap as they come. You can find 5000 rounds for $190. Save money by buying less ammo.

en.wikipedia.org...

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Stick with the standard military round for your area . Consider a cheap bolt action with a scope that will out preform your 9mm carbine in every way . .. names like savage remington can be had used for low bucks .


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