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Every Black Hole Contains A Universe

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posted on May, 18 2012 @ 03:36 PM
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What an interesting theory!

Every black hole contains a universe.
Imagine if that would turn out to be true.Multiple universes.

In a way,it makes sense.Where is all that material going when gets sucked in by a black hole?
What happens to it all?

Here is an article discussing this theory.


Our universe may exist inside a black hole. This may sound strange, but it could actually be the best explanation of how the universe began, and what we observe today. It's a theory that has been explored over the past few decades by a small group of physicists including myself.



Successful as it is, there are notable unsolved questions with the standard big bang theory, which suggests that the universe began as a seemingly impossible "singularity," an infinitely small point containing an infinitely high concentration of matter, expanding in size to what we observe today. The theory of inflation, a super-fast expansion of space proposed in recent decades, fills in many important details, such as why slight lumps in the concentration of matter in the early universe coalesced into large celestial bodies such as galaxies and clusters of galaxies. But these theories leave major questions unresolved. For example: What started the big bang? What caused inflation to end? What is the source of the mysterious dark energy that is apparently causing the universe to speed up its expansion?


phys.org...


What are your thoughts of this theory?

K




posted on May, 18 2012 @ 03:46 PM
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Black holes really aren't that big, relatively speaking. Space itself would have to compressed inside it, kind of like a pocket dimension. At least, that's my thought.



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 03:47 PM
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One of the comments

if our universe was inside a blackhole that means that blackhole is in another universe? so a universe in a universe is impossible

Makes some sense. Of course you can't really say one way or another that our "parent universe" or whatever is inside a black hole, but it's just as likely as ours being in a black hole.

Regardless, I don't really see this as a testable hypothesis so it's just as good as a religious explanation. Guess we'll have to wait till more black hole research comes in.



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by kdog1982
 

No.

The physicists seem to forget something when it comes to Black Holes.......time.

Relativity states that as the force of gravity increases time slow downs. Now if gravity is so intense that light itself cannot escape ie the event horizon then at the point in space time MUST have stopped.

So now think wrt time and thus motion. If time has stopped them motion MUST also stop. So at the moment the event horizon forms all matter at the event horizon is frozen in time. In other words it cannot move towards the "theoretical" singularity. What you have behind the black hole is the original star caught in a time gradient.

So the centre of the black hole has normal time the edge has zero time. Now consider some point just inside the event horizon. Temperature ie vibrating atoms will result in atoms moving between areas of different time speeds and thus accumulate in the area of slower time. This means the star expands outwards towards the event horizon whilst matter is impacting on the surface. Slowly over time (!) the mass at the surface increases until the black hole becomes unstable and explodes.

Black holes are nothing of the sort they are black surfaces waiting to destabalise.

Evidence : I have none but I firmly believe it is being suppressed by TPTB so it must be true ( sorry guys n gals couldn't resist a wee dig ).



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 04:06 PM
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Thanks for posting, will be reading this for sure.


Originally posted by TsukiLunar
Black holes really aren't that big, relatively speaking. Space itself would have to compressed inside it, kind of like a pocket dimension. At least, that's my thought.


Or maybe they are kind of a portal to another universe. According to this theory, if goes into a blackhole (assuming that he survives) he ends up into another universe. But that doesn't means that a universe is within a blackhole.



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by yorkshirelad
reply to post by kdog1982
 

No.

The physicists seem to forget something when it comes to Black Holes.......time.

Relativity states that as the force of gravity increases time slow downs. Now if gravity is so intense that light itself cannot escape ie the event horizon then at the point in space time MUST have stopped.

So now think wrt time and thus motion. If time has stopped them motion MUST also stop. So at the moment the event horizon forms all matter at the event horizon is frozen in time. In other words it cannot move towards the "theoretical" singularity. What you have behind the black hole is the original star caught in a time gradient.

So the centre of the black hole has normal time the edge has zero time. Now consider some point just inside the event horizon. Temperature ie vibrating atoms will result in atoms moving between areas of different time speeds and thus accumulate in the area of slower time. This means the star expands outwards towards the event horizon whilst matter is impacting on the surface. Slowly over time (!) the mass at the surface increases until the black hole becomes unstable and explodes.

Black holes are nothing of the sort they are black surfaces waiting to destabalise.

Evidence : I have none but I firmly believe it is being suppressed by TPTB so it must be true ( sorry guys n gals couldn't resist a wee dig ).


I see what you are saying that all the material gathered by the black hole will eventually increase til something gives.

Much like the theory that the big bang is re-created over and over again.


(PhysOrg.com) -- Cosmologists Alan Coley from Canada's Dalhousie University and Bernard Carr from Queen Mary University in London, have published a paper on arXiv, where they suggest that some so-called primordial black holes might have been created in the Big Crunch that came before the Big Bang, which lends support to the theory that the Big Bang was not a single event, but one that occurs over and over again as the universe crunches down to a single point, then blows up again, over and over.


phys.org...



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by morpheusxxz
Thanks for posting, will be reading this for sure.


Originally posted by TsukiLunar
Black holes really aren't that big, relatively speaking. Space itself would have to compressed inside it, kind of like a pocket dimension. At least, that's my thought.


Or maybe they are kind of a portal to another universe. According to this theory, if goes into a blackhole (assuming that he survives) he ends up into another universe. But that doesn't means that a universe is within a blackhole.


Nothing would survive going through a black hole,in my opinion.
Only the atoms .And then to find each other again as a re-birth.
New stars,new planets,new life.



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 04:43 PM
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IF: The compression of matter creates an increase of heat and an increase of heat speeds the vibration/spin rate of atoms.

and IF: The compression of matter creates a higher gravity/density affect on the space surrrounding it which causes a localized slowing of relative time.

Then: The inside of a black hole must be a fast, hot, timeless place.

There is a reason why they say that known theory breaks down when describing a black hole. It dosen't fit the model or make any sense

edit on 18-5-2012 by twinmommy38 because: spelling (as usual)



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 05:56 PM
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Now when it comes to this sort of stuff, it goes way over my head. So i really don't know anything at all!.


But my step brother who is quite bright (Although he has brain injurys from a massive car accident)
always use to tell me that black holes were tears or rips in space time, and that all the material
that got sucked in spewed out the other side, thus re-creating stars etc on the other side
and that the universe was infinite and is continually re-creating galaxy's and stuff
and that it never ends

I always took what he said with a grain of salt though



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by karmajayne
Now when it comes to this sort of stuff, it goes way over my head. So i really don't know anything at all!.


But my step brother who is quite bright (Although he has brain injurys from a massive car accident)
always use to tell me that black holes were tears or rips in space time, and that all the material
that got sucked in spewed out the other side, thus re-creating stars etc on the other side
and that the universe was infinite and is continually re-creating galaxy's and stuff
and that it never ends

I always took what he said with a grain of salt though


Thanks for sharing that.
Sorry to here about your brother-in-laws injuries.



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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reply to post by kdog1982
 


A couple years ago, I tried modelling the Big Bang as the creation of a black hole, with our subsequent universe being inside it. Ultimately, as far as all the possible solutions I tried, I used up a couple 200-page notebooks on it to no avail.

What I didn't try was an alternate black hole model - the gravastar. Though, by its very nature, a gravastar won't work any better than a standard black hole, but maybe an altered version of both, making certain assumptions as to the physics on the inside? I might have to try that...

Back to the black hole theory... at the time, I didn't have any explanation for why the interior of the universal black hole would be experiencing constant expansion, but I've since gained a new understanding of that expansion and what could be causing it. I'm still not sure if it could apply naturally to the interior of a black hole, but, since I haven't really thought about it, I can't say for sure.

Great, now I'm interested in this theory again. I hope you're proud of yourself, kdog



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 08:09 PM
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Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by kdog1982
 


A couple years ago, I tried modelling the Big Bang as the creation of a black hole, with our subsequent universe being inside it. Ultimately, as far as all the possible solutions I tried, I used up a couple 200-page notebooks on it to no avail.

What I didn't try was an alternate black hole model - the gravastar. Though, by its very nature, a gravastar won't work any better than a standard black hole, but maybe an altered version of both, making certain assumptions as to the physics on the inside? I might have to try that...

Back to the black hole theory... at the time, I didn't have any explanation for why the interior of the universal black hole would be experiencing constant expansion, but I've since gained a new understanding of that expansion and what could be causing it. I'm still not sure if it could apply naturally to the interior of a black hole, but, since I haven't really thought about it, I can't say for sure.

Great, now I'm interested in this theory again. I hope you're proud of yourself, kdog


Thanks CLPrime!
Well,now lets think about it .
What is in the center of most galaxies?

I have a new toy for you to play with,that is if you are not familiar with it.

www.orbitsimulator.com...



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 08:13 PM
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Make it a green hole and I'm in. Black is too dark.



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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You can't equate a black hole with the big bang.

Black holes are everywhere. If it's believed to be true, then at the centre of every massive galaxy is a black hole. How can it be conceived that one black hole can be the cause of all others?

Black holes, are nothing more than the effects we see on light as it is pulled towards a massive gravitational force. Caused by the insane amounts of matter trapped by the death of a massive star. It's like a corner that you cannot see around. You can't see what's around it, but that does not mean it isn't there, or that it is a blackness, or that around the corner is another dimension.

I don't really consider black holes to be a point of time/space discontinuity. It still exists, but in a way beyond anything we understand. So we make up worm holes, splits in space, portals to other universes.

Perhaps with enough gravitational stress the fabric of space can rupture, but I'd expect a lot more than what we observe to occur, to occur. If we can traverse around a sphere, and we can and do, then we can traverse around a black hole. It's not a one sided plane as we expect when the fantasy of worm holes are pondered. If anything to travel into a black hole, as alluded to above in another post, we would simply become entangled in the mass that is so dense that it has such pull. We become part of it. Matter becomes lost and whatever it is in there, a meaningless conglomerate of super matter.

What happens next, who knows. God.. perhaps there is a leak from this intense gravity into other universes. But what foundation do we have to consider they exist? Quantum mechanics talks about dimensions, but they are not parallel to our own, not in the strict sense. Not in the sense that they all exist simultaneously - that is a result of a higher dimension, where given one set of circumstance, then all possible circumstance can be possible.

So not by default. I don't believe that a black hole is a way to another universe.

Mind you, at this level it is all random and speculative. So we have to go by what we know, and that is, black holes are a dense dead star that pulls all matter into itself.

Where does the matter go... it goes into itself. And when you really think about it, if you were to remove all the water and air and other gasses from our own bodies, we would be about 75% less the mass we are now. A lot of stuff can fit into a small space, if it's forced, and with such intense gravity, so as to bend light, the force would be super insane to consider.

And that's my Saturday morning bollocks of wot I just made up out of the way...



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by kdog1982
 


If time slows down at the event horizon...Then its likely that the other side of the Black hole where all the matter comes out it also slows down....This could work as instead of a big bang, it would be a time alteration the further the matter was from the negative event horizon.So somewhere at the centre of the Universe is a negative Black hole spewing matter out..which would acount for an ever expanding Universe.



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by kdog1982
 


Nope, I'm not familiar with that. I also wasn't familiar with the orbital patterns of those stars around the center of the galaxy (though, I knew of such orbits in general - I just don't usually concern myself with galactic black holes).

Going over my earlier calculations, some of the reasons why the black hole idea didn't work are coming back to me. For example, the black body temperature of a black hole the size of the universe should be A LOT less than the actual black body temperature of our universe.

The black body temperature of the universe when the CMB was formed (that is, at recombination) was 3000 K, yet at that time the smallest possible radius of the universe was 12.5 million light-years. A black hole of this radius would have a black body temperature of 1.5409121×10^-27 K. That's a far cry from 3000 K.

The only explanation is that there's a difference between the external black body temperature of a black hole (responsible for its Hawking radiation) and the internal black body temperature. I'm not sure why this would be the case, but it's possible I suppose.



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by CLPrime
reply to post by kdog1982
 


Nope, I'm not familiar with that. I also wasn't familiar with the orbital patterns of those stars around the center of the galaxy (though, I knew of such orbits in general - I just don't usually concern myself with galactic black holes).

Going over my earlier calculations, some of the reasons why the black hole idea didn't work are coming back to me. For example, the black body temperature of a black hole the size of the universe should be A LOT less than the actual black body temperature of our universe.

The black body temperature of the universe when the CMB was formed (that is, at recombination) was 3000 K, yet at that time the smallest possible radius of the universe was 12.5 million light-years. A black hole of this radius would have a black body temperature of 1.5409121×10^-27 K. That's a far cry from 3000 K.

The only explanation is that there's a difference between the external black body temperature of a black hole (responsible for its Hawking radiation) and the internal black body temperature. I'm not sure why this would be the case, but it's possible I suppose.


Had to educate myself a bit about the black body aspect.Only because you mentioned the temperature ,and my thought was what about infrared.


The temperature of a black hole is determined by the 'black body radiation temperature' of the radiation which comes from it. (e.g., If something is hot enough to give off bright blue light, it is hotter than something that is merely a dim red hot.) For black holes the mass of our Sun, the radiation coming from it is so weak and so cool that the temperature is only one ten-millionth of a degree above absolute zero. This is colder than scientists could make things on Earth up until just a few years ago (and the invention of of a way to get things that cold won the Nobel prize this year). Some black holes are thought to weigh a billion times as much as the Sun, and they would be a billion times colder, far colder than what scientists have achieved on Earth. However, even though these things are very cold, they can be surrounded by extremely hot material. As they pull gas and stars down into their gravity wells, the material rubs against itself at a good fraction of the speed of light. This heats it up to hundreds of millions of degrees. The radiation from this hot, infalling material is what high-energy astronomers study.


imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Don't you think that somewhere,somehow,that could be the explanation to the big bang theory?
Had to come from somewhere.
It has been said that when the universe stops expanding,and all the stars have used op they're fuel,it will be a cold,dark place
edit on 18-5-2012 by kdog1982 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 09:14 PM
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Fractals maybe????

Thoughts?



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 09:19 PM
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reply to post by kdog1982
 


In a black hole time and space literally breaks down making the formation of a universe impossible.Inside a black hole everything is travelling towards the singularity.If by some strange effect you could survive in a black hole you would never know a universe was created since all paths through space would lead to the singularity.Meaning you wouldnt even see light just darkness.



posted on May, 18 2012 @ 09:26 PM
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Ok,so I shall post another part of this article.
I have notice no one spoke of torsion.


Here is how torsion would play out in the beginning moments of our universe inside a black hole. Initially, gravitational attraction between particles would overcome torsion's repulsive forces, serving to collapse matter into a smaller region of space. But eventually torsion would become very strong and prevent matter from compressing into a point of infinite density. Nonetheless, matter would still be packed together in a highly dense state. The immensely high gravitational energy in this densely packed state would cause an intense production of particles, since energy can be converted into matter. This process would further increase the mass inside the black hole. The increasing numbers of particles with spin would result in higher levels of spacetime torsion. The repulsive torsion would stop the collapse and would create a "big bounce" like a compressed beach ball that snaps outward. The rapid recoil after such a big bounce could be what has led to our expanding universe. The result of this recoil matches observations of the universe's shape, geometry, and distribution of mass. In turn, the torsion mechanism suggests an astonishing scenario: every black hole would produce a new, baby universe inside. If that is true, then the first matter in our universe came from somewhere else. So our own universe could be the interior of a black hole existing in another universe. Just as we cannot see what is going on inside black holes in the cosmos, any observers in the parent universe could not see what is going on in ours. The motion of matter through the black hole's boundary, called an "event horizon," would only happen in one direction, providing a direction of time that we perceive as moving forward. The arrow of time in our universe would therefore be inherited, through torsion, from the parent universe. Torsion could also explain the observed imbalance between matter and antimatter in the universe. Because of torsion, matter would decay into familiar electrons and quarks, and antimatter would decay into "dark matter," a mysterious invisible form of matter that appears to account for a majority of matter in the universe. Finally, torsion could be the source of "dark energy," a mysterious form of energy that permeates all of space and increases the rate of expansion of the universe. Geometry with torsion naturally produces a "cosmological constant," a sort of added-on outward force which is the simplest way to explain dark energy. Thus, the observed accelerating expansion of the universe may end up being the strongest evidence for torsion. Torsion therefore provides a theoretical foundation for a scenario in which the interior of every black hole becomes a new universe. It also appears as a remedy to several major problems of current theory of gravity and cosmology. Physicists still need to combine the Einstein-Cartan-Sciama-Kibble theory fully with quantum mechanics into a quantum theory of gravity. While resolving some major questions, it raises new ones of its own. For example, what do we know about the parent universe and the black hole inside which our own universe resides? How many layers of parent universes would we have? How can we test that our universe lives in a black hole?


phys.org...



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