I refused to disclose my annual income to PAYPAL and they froze my funds !

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PAYPAL are legalized extortionists

Back on the 4th of this month (12 days ago now), for the 1st time I decided to sell an item on eBay. At $310, the sale was a success and I had myself a buyer. I made it known to the buyer that I preferred a direct bank transfer payment ... from their bank account to my bank account ... simple and sweet ... what could possibly go wrong ?
Here we had the old fashioned transaction in all it's glory ... I sell, you buy, you pay me, I send the goods.
After the auction concluded, the purchaser stated that they've had past bad experiences with such direct buy/pay transactions and would much rather (for their own peace of mind) pay using PayPal.

Personally, I wasn't too happy with this form of payment as I'd never used PayPal in the past and truthfully, just couldn't be bothered with going through all the hassle of setting up a PayPal account. Anyway, to keep the purchaser happy, I agreed to use PayPal.
So no surprise when I found myself being compelled to give away all sorts of personal and banking information to some company that I never really wanted to deal with in the 1st place.
Eventually, I got the new PayPal account up and running, notified the purchaser who immediately transferred the full item price to my PayPal account. This was on a Friday evening.
PayPal notified me that the payment had been made and so quite naively, I log into my PayPal account where I notice that PayPal had already debited their cut of approximately $8 ... the thieving sods certainly don't believe in wasting any time dipping their hands into my money. Anyway, I went ahead and requested a full transfer of the reduced amount of $302 over to my personal bank account. PayPal indicated that the transfer transaction had taken place.
Thinking that everything was hunky-dory, I did the right thing by the buyer who payed so quickly and the next day, I post of the item to them.

Transaction completed ... right ?
WRONG .... this is the point at which everything started to go downhill ... RAPIDLY !!

I figure that like most bank to bank transactions, that this will most likely take a day or two, so no probs.

But the days go by and just as I'm starting to wonder what's the delay, I get an email from PayPal stating that my brand-spanking new PayPal account was under review ... WTF ????


These cretins waited a full 6 days after I requested them to transfer the funds to begin the shafting process. PayPal obviously had finally decided that now that was a good time to start lubricating the instrument of impalation and I could almost feel a hand on the back of my neck starting to push me over into the required position.

Apparently, my account wasn't fully finalized yet and therefore the fund transfer (which had been previously approved) had been reversed and put on hold because NOW they decide that they require additional forms of id from me to prove that I was really who I said I was when I created the PayPal account. Their request was for 2 forms of SCANNED id, namely the front & back of a current drivers license and a current utility bill showing my address. Once supplied, I was told my account would become fully activated.

As well as the 2 id items, an additional form was emailed to me that I was required to complete, then scan and send back to them. This form was a questionnaire asking such things as:

"How much money do I expect to receive in my PayPal account each month ?"
Exactly WHY should that be any of their business ?
If I'm not required to disclose that info to my bank in order for me to open an account, then why should PayPal ? Perhaps I've got it wrong but isn't PayPal's reason for existence primarily to facility the transfer of funds between a seller and buyer ? What do they care if I receive $5 in my PayPal account or $5000 each month ? Duhhhhh [head slap] .... obviously the more money moving INTO my PayPal account, the more commission they help themselves to and the richer they get !

One particular question that I refused to answer was regarding my annual income. I thought this question alone was a complete and unnecessary intrusion into my privacy and for the life of me could not see why this information was necessary if all PayPal were doing was facilitating a fund transfer between buyer and seller.
So I refused to answer it truthfully and selected the minimum annual income response and even hand wrote a comment on the form against this question expressing my belief that it was a completely inappropriate question and "none of their business" !


Well, I guess that was a BIG mistake on my part !

I wait another 2 days and when still no money appearing in my bank account, I phone PayPal customer service ... CUSTOMER service ... what a joke !!!
Judging by the support staffers accent, I'd been diverted to somewhere in India or Malaysia or god only knows where else. I ask the girl if they had received all the required documents and was reassured that yes, they have all they need and that the documents were being "processed" and that my account should be fully activated within 48 hours ... this is now 6 days since I sold the item, created the account, had the buyer transfer money into it ... and now this person is telling me that I had yet another 2 days to wait for my money ... what a complete load of bollocks and I certainly impressed upon her my "complete lack of satisfaction" with the way PayPal was conducting business.

Time moves along ...

Two days later, I call for a progress update and am told that the account has still not been activated and the funds remain unavailable to me. This means that the buyer has now had the item physically in their possession for more than a week and I have yet to receive payment for it.
At this point I went of the deep end and got stuck into the staffer (again, somewhere in Asia) and demanded that she fully and clearly explains the delay as I believed I fully had the right to know why my funds were going nowhere fast. She explains .. actually no, she didn't EXPLAIN ... she simply informs me that now my account is under legal review ... WTF !!!!!!!
I asked for further clarification and was refused any details and all I could get out of her was her citing PayPal policy over and over and over.

So I ask, "what's the legal issue ?" ... "can't tell you", she says.
I ask, "what's the policy being invoked ?" ... "can't tell you", she says.
"Transfer me to your supervisor immediately !" ... "can't do that and anyway, he'd only repeat what I've been telling you", she says.

All I got at the end of that very unsatisfactory conversation was that my account was still inactive ... that my funds were still being held by PayPal ... and that I was still under legal review.
Ten days down the track and I knew f*ck all !

Today, it's now 12 days since I sold the item and got paid for it with PayPal acting as the middle man.
I called customer support once again asking for an update and clarification as to what the problem was. I won't bother giving any details because it was virtually a carbon copy of every previous conversation I've had with PayPal.
I ended the conversation by hanging up on her.

Continued next post ...

Continued from previous post ...


Just a short while ago, I received an email from PayPal stating that my account was now deactivated and my funds ($302) frozen indefinitely.


I immediately called customer support DEMANDING an explanation, especially as there was NO obvious mention of ANY legal issues ... basically just a generic email citing a number of vague reasons, none of which were even remotely applicable to me.

Again, I demanded a detailed explanation for PayPal's actions in regards to my account and funds and was essentially told that PayPal was under NO obligation whatsoever to provide them.
I pushed the matter and was informed that yes, PayPal had completely suspended my account and it would remain suspended ... that yes, my $302 was frozen for a minimum of 180 days (6 months !) and that yes, I could request a review ... that no, PayPal was not going to explain.

I then asked what would it take to get that explanation from PayPal ... her answer was

Get a subpoena

I slammed the phone down.


So there you have it, a perfect example of why you should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER trust PayPal and if you have accounts with them, my strongest suggestion would be to close and never use them again.
Refuse to do any business with that pack of extortionists.


Hey, Anonymous ... want to take another shot at shutting PayPal down again ?
Only this time make it permanent !


P.S.
Irrespective of any comments to the contrary, I firmly believe that this was PayPal's retaliation and response to my refusing to supply a correct response within their questionnaire regarding my annual income, coupled with the comment I made regarding that particular question and PayPal's need to ask it.

PAYPAL ? Certainly not your PAL and as for PAY ... yeah, sure .... good luck with that !

This is all so strange! We've used Pay Pal for years (my husband buys and sells stuff on it regularly) and we have never been asked to fill out forms such as that or provide such sorts of information.
Is that specific to Australia, and due to laws they have there?

One time we got an email requesting personal info from Pay Pal, but my husband called them right away and found out it wasn't from them, it was a scam, and that was the end of it.

You have my full sympathy my friend.
I have had many bad experiences with PAYPAL in the past .
They seem to be above the law or any trading standards.
Don't give up the fight.

Edited for clarifiction....... I'm in the UK

I've had similar dealings with Paypal in the past due to doing business with people overseas. I've had my account frozen a few times while they verified the authenticity of the transactions, etc. (these have always been the buying and selling of web services - web design/development/graphics/logos,etc)

I have to inquire though...

What type of item were you selling? I just wonder if the item is what caused the initial suspicion.

I'm not saying you did anything wrong by any means and I'm DEFINITELY not advocating PayPal, as the way I see it, they are sucking pond scum for a living.

Originally posted by Bluesma
This is all so strange! We've used Pay Pal for years (my husband buys and sells stuff on it regularly) and we have never been asked to fill out forms such as that or provide such sorts of information.
Is that specific to Australia, and due to laws they have there?

One time we got an email requesting personal info from Pay Pal, but my husband called them right away and found out it wasn't from them, it was a scam, and that was the end of it.

As this was my 1st dealings with PayPal, I can't comment on their id requirement/request.
I can however confirm that the request DID originate with PayPal as I had to use their system to upload the documents and I also phoned and confirmed that they had received them.

Basically, I'm at a complete loss to understand what the heck has happened and why I am now out of pocket the item that I sold and now in someone else's possession and also out of pocket $302 which PayPal refuse to transfer to me.

So at the end of the day ... dealing with PayPal has cost me big time indeed

Deal locally, accept only cash.

PayPal is like using a credit card.
Credit Card companies have a right to ask what your income is.
They are extending credit and can get burned if you can't pay.
Although I hate giving up our income information, it can be necessary to receive/use credit.

Originally posted by freakjive
I've had similar dealings with Paypal in the past due to doing business with people overseas. I've had my account frozen a few times while they verified the authenticity of the transactions, etc. (these have always been the buying and selling of web services - web design/development/graphics/logos,etc)

I have to inquire though...

What type of item were you selling? I just wonder if the item is what caused the initial suspicion.

The item was completely harmless and innocuous ... it was just 300 gms of pure silver in the form of small "buttons".
eBay had NO issues with the sale whatsoever ... just PayPal.

I to have used paypal for years and have had no problems at all.I find them to be fast,efficient and most of all safe.
I use them for buying and selling on ebay also.Seems your account is under review for some reason,has the buyer contacted them for some unknown reason?

ETA-is this the first time in ages you have used your account?i ask because i had a buyer who hadnt used his account for over 5 years and because the account had been silent for so long they decided to investigate him further to make sure it wasnt a fraudulent transaction,sort of annoyed because they froze my account to whilst they did it but was sorted in 3 days.

Regards to all

Originally posted by FlyersFan
PayPal is like using a credit card.
Credit Card companies have a right to ask what your income is.
They are extending credit and can get burned if you can't pay.

Exactly WHAT credit are they extending ?
The $302 was entirely MY money that had been DEPOSITED into their system.
At NO point was I using PayPal's money.

Originally posted by FeatheredSerpent
I to have used paypal for years and have had no problems at all.I find them to be fast,efficient and most of all safe.
I use them for buying and selling on ebay also.Seems your account is under review for some reason,has the buyer contacted them for some unknown reason?

Regards to all

No, apparently the buyer is fully satisfied and happy based on the feedback he provided on eBay regarding my handling of the transaction and the item itself.

reply to post by tauristercus

Basically, I'm at a complete loss to understand what the heck has happened and why I am now out of pocket the item that I sold and now in someone else's possession and also out of pocket $302 which PayPal refuse to transfer to me.

Long story short - nothing even NEEDS to have happened to justify this, and a multitude of other people have similar complaints. I myself only use Paypal on a monthly recurring basis to auto-debit a payment for a membership podcast I subscribe to, and I think once for making a PAYMENT for an Ebay transaction - I will *not* otherwise hold funds in that account for any reason given their horrendous track record, scary T&Cs, and lack of any proper customer handling when an issue arises (it seems to come back to "NANANANANA MAKE US!" if your track goes south for some reason, and with their terms - you're almost guaranteed to lose).

Sorry, friend. Hopefully your funds are still THERE in six months...have to say I would not be surprised to hear of further excuses that required their...application.

Should have had a garage sale.

Most people that lived a hundred years ago or so would roll in their grave had they witnessed this sort of thing.

Your best off starting a political NGO that is allowed to take shady money transactions from anywhere in the world with no scrutiny.

It appears that you used false information (income) on their account forms. That is enough to shut down your account. I would advise if anyone else has a problem disclosing their income than do not write a note saying that you are lying. I usually check the box with the highest income. You get better offers in the mail that way.

You are in Aussie land so this might not be applicable but don't you have an Provincial Attorney General or some such consumer protection agency in your province you can call and see if they can help? I'd even go to the local TV stations and radio stations and see if they are interested in this story. You're being screwed by a very lousy, unresponsive company that I personally refuse to deal with because of similar problems. Hope that helps! Sometimes a few squeaky wheels get results!
Zindo

Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
It appears that you used false information (income) on their account forms. That is enough to shut down your account. I would advise if anyone else has a problem disclosing their income than do not write a note saying that you are lying. I usually check the box with the highest income. You get better offers in the mail that way.

That is absolute garbage. He stated he selected one box on a list of boxes but there was no other option. At the very least paypal should have called him and asked for the proper information. Instead they justify taking the person's money with this?

Very strange indeed, I've never had an issue with Paypal, and never remember filling in forms such as those

When I have had to contact customer service in the past, they have been quite efficient and cooperative. I suggest you call back and ask for an explanation (again) and keep pursuing this issue until your money is returned to you.

reply to post by boncho



They will not take the money,have they refunded it to the buyer?If not they will be holding from both partys until they have finished there investigation.

May i ask was there a red flag on paypal next to the buyers payment?

Regards to all

They froze my account too, I have to get an Appeal..

They won't even tell me why and I've been a member for 10 years.

I never had a problem and always been a fast payer with purchasing so I don't know what their problem is.