9/11: The WTC Elevator Key

Let's pull ANYTHING out of our derrieres to cover up for the real perps. Why? Because you can't wreck my world view...my world view says we have a nice government that is really out for the people..... this is the greatest country ever blah blah blah.... God bless America blah blah blah.... the land of the free blah blah blah ....the real boogey man is an Arab Muslim nutjob who ran this whole operation out of his cave with his cellphone.... anyone who says otherwise is a liar and a fool...

"Osama Bin Laden" (ooooooh sounds scary doesn't it?) is a former CIA operative named Tim Osman...dead for 10 years already but what does that really matter.....

Maybe you can explain this molten metal pouring out of the south tower....

reply to post by SimontheMagus


I could say the same. Let's pull ANYTHING out of our derrieres to cover up for the real perps. Why? Because you can't wreck my world view...my world view says our government is to blame for my crappy life..... this country sucks blah blah blah.... Death to America blah blah blah.... they are taking away our freedoms, building FEMA death camps blah blah blah ....George Bush and other world leaders were behind the attacks. They brought the media, construction industry, airline industry, government officials, NORAD, demolition experts, firefighters, policemen all in on their plan and amazingly there wasn't one leak..... anyone who says otherwise is a liar and a fool...


See how easy that was?

So let me move on to the Molton Steel. Are you saying they used thermite to bring down the buildings? Because if you are, why would they plant bombs for a controlled demolition. That makes no sense. Why not just use thermite, I mean bombs are kind of hard to hide. Have you ever watched a building be demoed? When the bombs are set off, it is pretty loud. Kind of hard to cover that up. Also, please tell where how thermite cuts through vertical columns? I would love to see how that works.

Anyway, here is a link for you to read about the alleged molten metal...

What was that molten metal pourning out of the south tower

just because a person can read every shred of information they can find about a particular topic (9/11 in this case, obviously), information both supporting and rejecting a particular viewpoint (was 911 an inside job? -or- is the official story accurate? etc.), does not have anything to do with whether or not the individual is operating from a place of objectivity.

because if there is any internal bias in favor of one position over another, even subconsciously (and most of the time, this is the case. it's just part of being human), the ability to deconstruct information from a place of purely logical rationality is compromised.

and most of the time, those engaging in debates over such contentious topics as this one quickly fall victim to their screaming egos and emotional responses, often taking it personally when they're disagreed with. and it inevitably evolves into pissing contests, personal attacks, and a complete deviation from any semblance of fact-based conversation.

there's nothing wrong with being passionate about your beliefs, as long as you're not so attached to them that you're unable to objectively consider the ideas and evidence presented by others with whom you don't see eye to eye with. if you consider their ideas carefully and find that the evidence doesn't weigh up, great, that's how a debate should work! but no matter what your position is, you shouldn't identify with it so strongly that it becomes a part of you, so much so that you are unable to separate your existing beliefs with your sense of self. nor should you lump the professed positions of others to the person themselves.

this isn't to anyone in particular. i just wanted to share some thoughts i always have during these types of threads that might help facilitate the conversation in a more productive direction. basically, confirmation bias (and objectivity, as if i haven't already used that word enough!) must always be kept in mind if one is interested in a logical discourse.

of course, if this is just another ego-battle (as most debates and conversations are, from every corner of the world, and throughout the course of time), ignore my post completely and carry on

ETA: to stay on topic, i did watch the video. i always find it fascinating the vast number of videotape we have of witnesses using "explosion," "bombs," etc. in describing what they saw and experienced... especially on the basement floors. i don't buy the jet fuel explanation, the video shows how much fuel relative to the building size in the video... i don't see how that's even possible.

Originally posted by abeverage

Originally posted by samkent

and i dont think wil ever be truly understood

That's because too many people don't understand how the real world works. They take the view that there's a conspiracy in every event.
As to the elevators:
The higher elevators were damaged in the impacts.
The lower ones either didn't have power or were damaged from one of the fireballs of fuel that were reported.

Didn't they teach you not to use the elevator during fires and other power sensitive situations?

FIREMEN Can and do use Elevators during a High-Rise Fire or emergency. Hence the key...

I'll confirm they do use elevators. In fact one of the reasons they don't want you to use the elevators is so they are free for emergency workers.

I worked in maintenance at a six story retirement home for a few years and that's what the fire guys told me.

If somebody posted a response similar to mine on one of the previous pages tell him/her to stop copying me. You see they read my post then went back in time to post my idea to make it look like I copied them. It's a time travel / quantum physics thing you wouldn't understand.

Peace.

Greetings,

Having read through the vast majority of this thread, I find it curious that so few have actually followed the link provided in the OP... s1.zetaboards.com... There you will find a multi-part thread by Miragememories, who has expanded upon the work of NK-44

Investigation into the collapse of WTC 1

Read it.

You will find amongst his exhaustive research a very straight-forward and intelligent walk-thru of the events relating to Tower 1. I estimate that most of you would find the evidence against planes and fire having destroyed much of the vast subterranean complex and lobby compelling.

The Elevators

Label me in whatever way you will, but I am going to make some comments about the elevators in WTC 1, despite some of you having considerable experience in this area. These points are mostly derived from the Investigation into the collapse of WTC 1 (link above).

1. Don't bother clicking the "Close Door" button in elevators. It doesn't work and is only there for show.
   
   
2. "The World Trade Center complex contained more than 240 elevators..."
   
   
3. "In the towers, the elevators were arranged to serve the buildings in three sections divided by skylobbies..." I note this because it is one of the biggest problems that contradicts the theory that jet fuel poured down elevator shafts.
   
   
4. Just 3 elevators were uniquely positioned to become awash in jet fuel, yet these sustained less damage and fewer "fiery" explosions.
   
   
5. "Kerosene/jet-fuel does not detonate and does not easily explode..." Tossing a match in a pan of jet fuel (also a lubricant BTW) is unlikely to cause it to ignite. Gasoline, on the other hand...
   
   
6. Numerous survivors positioned in the basement levels and lobby of WTC1 suffered burns, indeed. Some, very severe.
   

Burned or Blasted? Baked or Flashed?

The problem with the "experts" opinions of how these events take place medically and forensically, is they seem to all choose convenient conclusions. If someone survives a C4 explosion, they claim that damage to the lungs from the blast pressure is consistent. If someone survives an office fire, they claim that burned corneas is consistent.

But, in the case of the subterranean and lobby of WTC1 some survivors had massive primary blast injuries and their ear-drums blown. Some had tertiary blast injuries caused by concussive force throwing them into walls or hurling great distances before impacting.

I believe a woman in the lobby had her entire tongue extricated by a force of some kind. One man lost an entire leg. Ceilings collapsed. Walls were blown out. Firemen were reporting an explosion had taken place on the B4 level. A blast door was found far from it's original location, crumpled in a wad.

And, all of this before either building collapsed.

The Significance of the Elevators

Personally, it's not clear whether there was intent to disable the elevators during the operation, nor would I guess at a motive. However, when I recently learned of how advanced nuclear weapons technology had come I determined one possibility.

Without sharing all the boring details, it is possible that the reason for the #50 elevator (an express to the top) being out of service for the month leading up to the operation was to allow for numerous pocket-sized nukes to be affixed to the interior of the elevator shaft. Now, before the experts berate me for not understanding the logistics of this be aware I'm talking about Hydrogen/Boron here. That should silence most intellectuals. And, I don't consider this too strong a possibility.

My main point in writing this today was in response to all the claims of "it's so obvious", or "that's not how it works", and sometimes even making these statements while being absolutely oblivious to the events relating to 9/11. I don't claim to know what happened, but you can damn well be sure that I got my research glove buried deep in these bastards!

A final note of thanks to fellow truthers (The truth being a good thing) participating in this thread...
maxella1 - SimontheMagus - Kang69 - 4hero - abeverage - ecoparity - twohawks - xXxinfidelxXx -

Originally posted by tide88

Anyway, here is a link for you to read about the alleged molten metal...

What was that molten metal pourning out of the south tower

Your link doesn't explain the molten pools that were being discovered in the debris six weeks after the attack.

Jet fuel?

reply to post by TyrannyNews


You see it takes a long time to actually watch the video and read the information in the link. I read it twice before posting this video. I'm not sure what ATS policy is about posting links to other forum boards. So I just hoped that people would see the link in the YouTube description.

But some here have a very short attention span unfortunately.

reply to post by TyrannyNews



Lovely post, well presented. I tip my hat to you...

Originally posted by Alfie1

I am more inclined to believe his first versions of events too. His first versions were about rumbles and balls of fire down elevator shafts. An explosion below before plane impact was a much later development.

This is the scene in the street seconds before the first plane impact to the Tower where Rodriguez worked. The firefighters notice the sound of the plane but there is nothing else before impact. Where is your basement explosion prior to the plane hit ?

www.youtube.com...

I was under the impression that the jet fuel reference was the 2nd version of events?

If it is the other way round then this person is not credible!

The Naudet film is nothing to go off, that does not counter all the testimonies from people in the Basement.
Using that video to hold up your idea is not very accurate or convincing. Are you saying all those people stating on video that there was an explosion prior to impact were lying? Were all those injured in the basement lying?!

Can you explain scientifically how jet fuel supposedly traveled down approx 1000ft into the basement, prior to impact, and through a network of lift shafts that did not go straight down?!

I'm shocked how all the OS'ers cannot even use basic logic to determine simple situations.

reply to post by cavalryscout


Um...ok lol

reply to post by Alfie1



Here is a small selection of videos for you to peruse that provide more weight that your Naudet video..









Oh, one more thing, there is a well known video of 3 firemen sitting on a wall covered in dust, one with a nose bleed due to one of the explosions, a video that NIST reluctantly released after a lawsuit. Why would NIST try and block people seeing that video?! Anyway, in that video one fireman said he saw a BLACK plane, yes black!!

The AA planes were not black, so this totally discredits the hijacking of AA planes theory! Can you also explain this with some credibility please?

Originally posted by 4hero
reply to post by Alfie1

 

Here is a small selection of videos for you to peruse that provide more weight that your Naudet video..

Oh, one more thing, there is a well known video of 3 firemen sitting on a wall covered in dust, one with a nose bleed due to one of the explosions, a video that NIST reluctantly released after a lawsuit. Why would NIST try and block people seeing that video?! Anyway, in that video one fireman said he saw a BLACK plane, yes black!!

The AA planes were not black, so this totally discredits the hijacking of AA planes theory! Can you also explain this with some credibility please?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by 4hero


In that last video posted, the guy in it talk about the elevator. Around 1:12 of the last video

I was in the revolving doors when the plane hit the building.... One of the elevators I think came crashing down to the lobby level and all this debris came flying out of it and a fireball emerged from the elevator lobby and was coming toward me..."

then at 2:00 another guy talks about a guy that went back in to the lobby after the plane hit to avoid the falling debris, and when he did a there was an explosion from the elevators and a fireball came out from the elevators.

And lets take this eye witness accounts with a grain of salt. Take that second video, the guy specifically says I THINK a bomb went off in the lobby, then a plane hit, then another plane hit. It is possible that he has the sequence of events mixed up, especially since the interview was right after the planes hit and I am sure he was a bit in shock.

And that first video, come on. They were being evacuated and they even say so in the video. If they are being evacuated the plane has obviously already hit the building. Non of those videos show any proof of bombs going off in the building. As for any secondary explosions heard, they can be attributed to electronic equipment, transformers. Have you ever heard a transformer explode? I have and it sounds like a bomb.

There actually have been instances of transformers exploding in the WTC in the 1990's. Anyway, here is a little link that explains away those supposed bombs..

Bombs debunked

reply to post by 4hero

Can you explain scientifically how jet fuel supposedly traveled down approx 1000ft into the basement, prior to impact, and through a network of lift shafts that did not go straight down?!

Well, for one thing, freight elevator 50 serviced all floors.

How about this for eyewitness testimony.

For an elevator’s cables to be cut and result in dropping the car to the bottom of the shaft, the cables would need to have been in the aircraft impact debris path, floors 93 through 98 in WTC 1 or floors 78 through 83 in WTC 2. Inspection of the elevator riser diagram and architectural floor plans for WTC 1 shows that the following elevators met these criteria: cars 81 through 86 (Bank B) and 87 through 92 (Bank C), local cars in Zone III; car 50, the freight elevator, and car 6, the Zone III shuttle. … Cars 6 and 50 could have fallen all the way to the pit in the sub-basement level, and car 50 in WTC 1 was reported to have done so.....


The blue area in the floor plans below indicates the #50 freight elevator shaft, which is continuous from the impact zones to the lowest basement level, B6. In the north tower, with elevator operator Arturo Griffith and carpenter Marlene Cruz aboard, the #50 elevator was hit by a blast, dropped several floors, and stopped below the B1 landing. A large fireball came through the shaft just after Griffith and Cruz were pulled from smoky elevator......

The yellow area indicates the large #6 and #7 elevators, which led to Windows on the World in the north tower (WTC 1) and to the observation deck in the south tower (WTC 2). This shaft is continuous from the impact zones to sublevel B4, where several people within the core area were injured by the jet fuel blast, and where building engineer Edward McCabe said the blast came "about 30 seconds" after he felt the building shift....

Several of the large express passenger elevators, which service the sky lobbies, plunged to the main lobby level. At least one of those falling elevators was accompanied by a huge fireball that burst into the lobby and concourse levels. Only four people are known to have survived in the south tower express elevators.

I could keep going but I will just let you read it for yourself. See how easy that is to find the truth about the elevator shafts. It amazes me that you would spread lies that none of the shafts were continuous from the basement levels to the level where the plane crashed.

Let me ask you, why would you say those things when they are clearly not true? What is your motivation?

One thing that is certain regarding 9/11, and there aren't that many certainties, lol, is that certain important aspects of the case, including evidence, was not given the attention it deserved; IF it was addressed at all. That is something that sticks with me. There are other things that do not sit well with me, including the passport on the ground, the direct testimony of eyewitnesses who said that the official explanation of events was not the truth. I trust a decent sized group of people, who do not know each other, as opposed to the government, because the latter does have to hide information while the former have no reason to. I would take the elevator down, if it was working, and if the stairwells were not passable. Sure beats jumping out the window, imo at least.

Originally posted by tide88
reply to post by 4hero

 

In that last video posted, the guy in it talk about the elevator. Around 1:12 of the last video

I was in the revolving doors when the plane hit the building.... One of the elevators I think came crashing down to the lobby level and all this debris came flying out of it and a fireball emerged from the elevator lobby and was coming toward me..."

then at 2:00 another guy talks about a guy that went back in to the lobby after the plane hit to avoid the falling debris, and when he did a there was an explosion from the elevators and a fireball came out from the elevators.

And lets take this eye witness accounts with a grain of salt. Take that second video, the guy specifically says I THINK a bomb went off in the lobby, then a plane hit, then another plane hit. It is possible that he has the sequence of events mixed up, especially since the interview was right after the planes hit and I am sure he was a bit in shock.

And that first video, come on. They were being evacuated and they even say so in the video. If they are being evacuated the plane has obviously already hit the building. Non of those videos show any proof of bombs going off in the building. As for any secondary explosions heard, they can be attributed to electronic equipment, transformers. Have you ever heard a transformer explode? I have and it sounds like a bomb.

There actually have been instances of transformers exploding in the WTC in the 1990's. Anyway, here is a little link that explains away those supposed bombs..

Bombs debunked

I think if you watch the firemen video I mentioned, kindly posted by maxella, you'll notice that the firemen themselves witnessed MULTIPLE different explosions, so yes, not only was there a bomb/explosion in the basement prior to the plane hitting but there were further bombs going off at different places in the building.

We know the lift shafts do not go from top to bottom in one go, they are split up into sections, so bombs were obviously being triggered in different places for it to affect varying parts of the building at different times.
The collapse occured due to the explosions that were spread out over time, this would rouse less suspicion.

Why would you take eye witness accounts with a grain of salt? These are the people that were there, they know better than anyone. You can only speculate about transformers, it's a possible theory, but what floor were they on, how could they affect the basement and other floors that the 'plane' did not hit?! I think it's a bit far fetched to assume transformers were to blame for the NUMEROUS explosions!!

Unfortunately I don't think bombs can be debunked, far too many people claiming there were bombs, and all the damage is consistent with bombs. Good luck trying to debunk bombs, that can and will never happen!

reply to post by SimontheMagus


Actually no and if you would take time to research and try to debunk these theories yourself instead of blindly believing what is posted on ATS, you would learn a lot. Here is a link that explains everything, although I doubt you will believe it. Where is the alleged Molton Steel?? LOL

BTW, god only know what the debris consisted of after those towers fell. There is a reason the fire burned so long after. Hell, for all we know there could have been a natural thermite reaction that caused those alleged pools of Molton Steel. Obviously everything that would be needed for a natural reaction would be present in the debris from the WTC.

Originally posted by tide88

Well, for one thing, freight elevator 50 serviced all floors.

How about this for eyewitness testimony.

For an elevator’s cables to be cut and result in dropping the car to the bottom of the shaft, the cables would need to have been in the aircraft impact debris path, floors 93 through 98 in WTC 1 or floors 78 through 83 in WTC 2. Inspection of the elevator riser diagram and architectural floor plans for WTC 1 shows that the following elevators met these criteria: cars 81 through 86 (Bank B) and 87 through 92 (Bank C), local cars in Zone III; car 50, the freight elevator, and car 6, the Zone III shuttle. … Cars 6 and 50 could have fallen all the way to the pit in the sub-basement level, and car 50 in WTC 1 was reported to have done so.....


The blue area in the floor plans below indicates the #50 freight elevator shaft, which is continuous from the impact zones to the lowest basement level, B6. In the north tower, with elevator operator Arturo Griffith and carpenter Marlene Cruz aboard, the #50 elevator was hit by a blast, dropped several floors, and stopped below the B1 landing. A large fireball came through the shaft just after Griffith and Cruz were pulled from smoky elevator......

The yellow area indicates the large #6 and #7 elevators, which led to Windows on the World in the north tower (WTC 1) and to the observation deck in the south tower (WTC 2). This shaft is continuous from the impact zones to sublevel B4, where several people within the core area were injured by the jet fuel blast, and where building engineer Edward McCabe said the blast came "about 30 seconds" after he felt the building shift....

Several of the large express passenger elevators, which service the sky lobbies, plunged to the main lobby level. At least one of those falling elevators was accompanied by a huge fireball that burst into the lobby and concourse levels. Only four people are known to have survived in the south tower express elevators.

I could keep going but I will just let you read it for yourself. See how easy that is to find the truth about the elevator shafts. It amazes me that you would spread lies that none of the shafts were continuous from the basement levels to the level where the plane crashed.

Let me ask you, why would you say those things when they are clearly not true? What is your motivation?

I take it you're not hot on maths! 50 floors does not equal the distance from the impact zone to the B4 level! hahaha!

My motivation! Is to stop all this disinfo nonsense and uphold what really happened that day, and it certainly didn't happen the way you, or the OS is portraying!

reply to post by 4hero


My motivation is knowing that the people responsible for the attack, intentional or unintentional negligence or honest mistakes or even criminal involvement at some point, are STILL OUT THERE. Some of them even got promotions instead of getting fired. And one day some of those people will do something similar to 9/11 because they suffer no consequences for their “mistakes”.

Sometimes people will cite the reports of the buildings "leaning" prior to collapse as a support for the "collapse" theory and for the inevitability of collapse, but the buildings couldn't lean if there had not been damage to the structures at a much lower level than the plane impacts. You can't have it both ways.

Originally posted by 4hero

Originally posted by tide88

Well, for one thing, freight elevator 50 serviced all floors.

How about this for eyewitness testimony.

For an elevator’s cables to be cut and result in dropping the car to the bottom of the shaft, the cables would need to have been in the aircraft impact debris path, floors 93 through 98 in WTC 1 or floors 78 through 83 in WTC 2. Inspection of the elevator riser diagram and architectural floor plans for WTC 1 shows that the following elevators met these criteria: cars 81 through 86 (Bank B) and 87 through 92 (Bank C), local cars in Zone III; car 50, the freight elevator, and car 6, the Zone III shuttle. … Cars 6 and 50 could have fallen all the way to the pit in the sub-basement level, and car 50 in WTC 1 was reported to have done so.....


The blue area in the floor plans below indicates the #50 freight elevator shaft, which is continuous from the impact zones to the lowest basement level, B6. In the north tower, with elevator operator Arturo Griffith and carpenter Marlene Cruz aboard, the #50 elevator was hit by a blast, dropped several floors, and stopped below the B1 landing. A large fireball came through the shaft just after Griffith and Cruz were pulled from smoky elevator......

The yellow area indicates the large #6 and #7 elevators, which led to Windows on the World in the north tower (WTC 1) and to the observation deck in the south tower (WTC 2). This shaft is continuous from the impact zones to sublevel B4, where several people within the core area were injured by the jet fuel blast, and where building engineer Edward McCabe said the blast came "about 30 seconds" after he felt the building shift....

Several of the large express passenger elevators, which service the sky lobbies, plunged to the main lobby level. At least one of those falling elevators was accompanied by a huge fireball that burst into the lobby and concourse levels. Only four people are known to have survived in the south tower express elevators.

I could keep going but I will just let you read it for yourself. See how easy that is to find the truth about the elevator shafts. It amazes me that you would spread lies that none of the shafts were continuous from the basement levels to the level where the plane crashed.

Let me ask you, why would you say those things when they are clearly not true? What is your motivation?

I take it you're not hot on maths! 50 floors does not equal the distance from the impact zone to the B4 level! hahaha!

My motivation! Is to stop all this disinfo nonsense and uphold what really happened that day, and it certainly didn't happen the way you, or the OS is portraying!

Guess you didn't bother reading the link, huh? You are the spreading disinformation and I am appalled that you would do so without reading about the elevator shafts and posting like you know the correct information. Ill try once again.

For an elevator’s cables to be cut and result in dropping the car to the bottom of the shaft, the cables would need to have been in the aircraft impact debris path, floors 93 through 98 in WTC 1 or floors 78 through 83 in WTC 2. Inspection of the elevator riser diagram and architectural floor plans for WTC 1 shows that the following elevators met these criteria: cars 81 through 86 (Bank B) and 87 through 92 (Bank C), local cars in Zone III; car 50, the freight elevator, and car 6, the Zone III shuttle. … Cars 6 and 50 could have fallen all the way to the pit in the sub-basement level, and car 50 in WTC 1 was reported to have done so.

If you look at the link you will see the diagrams that clearly explain which elevators went from the B levels to the impact levels. You can also read a real eyewitness account from an elevator engineer in the link above, whom I sure knows a lot more about the elevator system at the WTC than anyone posting on this board.