It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Originally posted by TheReligiousHoax
reply to post by gameisupman
I think you are placing a bit too much faith in Jim Oberg. His organization CSICOP was involved in making a couple of NOVA specials a few years back, and there are some pretty strong indications that Phillip Klass, Jim Oberg and other CSICOP members took a rather heavy-handed approach in helping squash abductee claims. Here is an excerpt from Terry Hansen's 'Missing Times' book (excellent read BTW):
At one point Harvard's Dr. John Mack threatened to sue NOVA over libelous content in their original cut of 'Kidnapped by Aliens?' special. These segments were eventually removed, by NOVA insisted that it wasn't due to the legal pressure from Dr. Mack's lawyers. There is good reason to believe that these defamatory segments would have been left in the special had Dr. Mack not spoken up.
While Jim Oberg uses the concept of guilt by association to discredit Gordon Cooper and his relationship with Mr. Fry (not to mention Cooper's bad business practices), the same guilt by association can be made with Jim and his CSICOP buddies (most notably Klass) and helping make that claptrap of a UFO special on NOVA.
I am not saying either is right, but this sword cuts both ways. Who to believe? Make up your own mind, and take anything Jim Oberg or Gordon Cooper says with the same proverbial grain of salt.
....I think you are placing a bit too much faith in Jim Oberg. His organization CSICOP was involved in making a couple of NOVA specials a few years back, and there are some pretty strong indications that Phillip Klass, Jim Oberg and other CSICOP members took a rather heavy-handed approach in helping squash abductee claims.
Originally posted by JimOberg
Originally posted by arbiture1200
Originally posted by JimOberg
Originally posted by NotReallyASecret
If Gordon Cooper is somehow lieing (which I highly doubt), then the government should have the balls to say that! Either way, I want a government response.
Would it surprise you to learn that Cooper, after being quietly booted out of the astronaut program, campaigned around the country for various aviation inventions that he endorsed, and based on his endorsement investors gave millions of dollars to the advocates of these projects -- every penny of which was lost to fraud?
They all believed exactly as YOU did, about trusting Cooper. Too bad YOU weren't around to give Cooper's buddies all YOUR money, so you might also have learned an important lesson you seem defiantly resistent to.
What your saying Mr. Oberg, was that Mr. Cooper was a lousy business man. Since I never met him, or had dealings with him (to my knowledge) I can't speak to that fact. But that alone at least for me, does not automatically invalidate what he has said about UFO's It also does not prove it either. As this topic is known to do, were left with more questions then we have answers.
In regard to the business dealings, what I'd like to make more clear is that people who trusted Cooper based merely on his reputation earned honorably as a NASA astronaut, lost millions of dollars of their own money.
That very same attittude is exhibited by people who say, there's no NEED to verify Cooper's stories from indep-edent sources, he has such a wonderful reputation as a hero astronaut, his word doesn't NEED double-checking.
That's the point I meant to make.
Secondly, in assessing his own judgment of OTHER people's claims [and self-assessing his own ability to properly assess those claims], the bad business calls DO come into play, along with his own credulity regarding the contactee claims of Dan Fry.
But that's also a secondary issue, because he also has presented first-person stories of impressive personal experiences.
Those are the stories that I, apparently alone, suggest ought to be investigated with regard to the testimony of other people there at the time, rather than merely accepting Cooper's narrative as gospel without regard to anyone else's testimony.
Does Cooper's story stand on its own without checking?
Those who said 'yes', regarding the business deal claims, lost millions of dollars as a consequence of trusting Cooper's word.
Those who STILL say 'yes', regarding his UFO claims, still say yes. What have they lost?