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From Believer to Skeptic: What Are The Real Issues?

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posted on May, 9 2012 @ 02:27 PM
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Romney, Obama, and even the incorruptible Ron Paul has leveraged with third party sources to raise outside funds using tax exempt super pacs and personal donations to fund their campaigns. They all use celebrity personalities to endorse and help raise funds for them using outside sources and investment ponzi schemes. There used to be a mainstream political discussion about if this was in fact legal or unconstitutional. In my personal opinion it is unconstitutional!

However, setting aside the constitution, will new laws really stop politicians from raising money using third party sources? In Juan Williams book Muzzled, which talks about his experience as a political commentator on both the very liberal NPR and very conservative Fox News. He got fired from NPR saying after 9/11 he, like many Americans was suspicious when he saw muslims in airports. He has a chapter that talks about the limits of freedom of speech and how the very far right and very far left are money fundraisers. Arianna Huffington sold her very liberal Huffington Post website to AOL for $315 Million. The liberal media consists of most newspapers and most News Channels from the New York times to MSNBC. Conservatives are rarely heard on those channels, and President Obama himself has refused to be interviewed by the talk show hosts at Fox News. With the exception of the fair and balanced Bill O'reilly. Rush Limbaugh has a salary of $55 Million per year and the far right dominates AM radio, using his model.

So with the polarization of the left right paradigm which some on here says do not exist, is it any wonder to anybody, that these campaign fundraising techniques are being used to contribute to the election? I say, someone is ignorant if they do not believe in this left/right debate going on in America. You may not like it, but it exists. When it comes to politics, you have to be very careful about voicing your opinions and you have to remain neutral at all times in public life. Consider, my personal experience of writing a pro-capitalist, pro-free market (which btw was started by Christian Monks in the middle ages), paper in a Christianity class helmed by a secular democratic liberal who failed me for my beliefs. The class had very little to do with Christianity, but his interpretation of what America should be, while showing YouTube clips of various republicans and laughing at them, not allowing students to debate him on the issues. Even when those issues had very little to do with religion in the first place! But in his defense, the Christianity class had more of a, "think about it," feeling and it wasn't really open to debates.

I personally find it extremely difficult to have political discussions about real issues. People, even on this site, influenced by the star and flag value system have seemed to ban behind one candidate. When someone asks a practical question which is rare. They call those on the opposite side of the debate a shill and an insider. They go on to say that we should talk about real issues, and not ask stupid questions, when in fact the very questions raised were real! Just because you consider yourself not part of the left/right debate. You are still contributing to the polarization on the internet and not seriously considering other people's world views. This happens exactly the same way in the MSM.

I have had many great discussions with very far left liberals on this site, being a centrist republican, I can see all sides of the issues and it is my right as an American citizen to ask practical questions, to get their minds to at least, "think about it." As I tolerated in that religious classroom, back in college.

To be frank, most people here on ATS are conspiracy nutjob crybabies, spreading useless rhetoric about the NWO or Ron Paul and his plans to save America! If you question their information, they are instantly suspicious of you. What happened? Did ATS become so influenced by the star and flag system that people stopped having real political discussions? Is it the political polarization affect which apparently, does not exist on ATS, but is effecting every single American? When did it become the norm, to call people trolls if they asked questions, which opposed your world view?

The same can be said for Mainstream America (and no it's ridiculous to even suggest ATS represents the majority of Americans after all Jarrod Lee Laughner was once a member) as Juan Williams points out in his book, we have lost the ability to have a rational debate here in America. We have seen this countless times from Laughner himself who the left demonized the right by saying he was influenced by right wing propaganda. Juan Williams was effectively Muzzled by NPR for saying what was on his mind. And Sarah Palin who raised concerns about Obama's HealthCare plan effectively being death camps. I have not heard of one person dying because they were refused ObamaCare. I have heard how expensive it is to this country at a time, we cannot afford it. And insurance companies themselves, are usually the ones, that turn people away due to loopholes. I believe we need a simple National HealthCare Plan. Rush Limbaugh has been alienated as well, for saying that since Sandra Fluke wanted the government to pay her $3000 in birth control bills, that she was a slut! Seriously, I think that's a little excessive on Ms. Fluke's part. And yet, because Limbaugh is seen as a crazy right wing nut job, he is the one that gets bashed. However, those on the right will now be calling me a democrat.

However, I have made various posts on this site bashing the liberal media and government over reach programs.But just because I can see the need for government agencies, or a need for someone not so far right as Ron Paul or Sarah Palin as President, I am called a democrat. Why? Why cannot I not agree with my liberal friends on certain issues? You do no good calling me a democrat, because I agree with someone else. Instead of yelling at me for questioning your world view, why not answer my questions?

So I want to ask ATS members this very simple question. What are the real issues? Is it the NWO? Government corruption? Political fundraising? Ron Paul? Police brutality (which has become ironically silenced after OWS)? The UN? The Financial situation?

If you answered yes to all these questions and want to debate them, then by all means lets debate facts and not sensational conspiracy theories based on assumptions, such as the real Ron Paul delegate count, or all white cops are evil racist pigs! These are just some of the stories I have heard on ATS, and when I or someone else tries to bring balance to the topic at hand, we get yelled at. Why? What's so bad about hearing others opinions, especially when that person might have the right facts for you to look at.

I came to ATS looking for answers, and I became a skeptic. But I now understand why I question everything the government and corporations do. I now understand why I question seemingly amazing political candidates. There is no gold at the end of the rainbow...Sorry to burst your bubble. So please let's get back to the rational debates that existed here before the polarization of politics brainwashed all of ATS!


edit on 9-5-2012 by jjf3rd77 because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 9 2012 @ 02:39 PM
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You watch Fox news, that's a real issue.


But just because I can see the need for government agencies, or a need for someone not so far right as Ron Paul or Sarah Palin as President, I am called a democrat. Why? Why cannot I not agree with my liberal friends on certain issues? You do no good calling me a democrat, because I agree with someone else.


Though I do have to say this is incredibly true. I'm so sick of people assuming I'm a liberal because I support certain "liberal" ideas. It's like most die hard right wing people on here think that someone can't share ideas from all ideologies.


edit on 9-5-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2012 @ 02:40 PM
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Originally posted by RealSpoke
You watch Fox news, that's a real issue.


This is what I mean. Why can't I watch Fox News? How is it different from MSNBC? That was a pointless remark and you pretty much proved my point about rational debate here in America or ATS.



posted on May, 9 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 


They're all awful.

But going by your other threads... You watch Sean Hannity without any skepticism of the information he is telling you. You actually believed what Mitt Romney was telling you. So, you're pretty much being a skeptic in select places, which isn't what a true skeptic does.


Police brutality (which has become ironically silenced after OWS)?


One of the hot topics is a police brutality thread. This one www.abovetopsecret.com...


I have not heard of one person dying because they were refused ObamaCare.


Obamacare isn't even active yet, so...




edit on 9-5-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 9 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by RealSpoke
reply to post by jjf3rd77
 


They're all awful.

But going by your other threads... You watch Sean Hannity without any skepticism of the information he is telling you. You actually believed what Mitt Romney was telling you. So, you're pretty much being a skeptic in select places, which isn't what a true skeptic does.


Police brutality (which has become ironically silenced after OWS)?


One of the hot topics is a police brutality thread. This one www.abovetopsecret.com...


I have not heard of one person dying because they were refused ObamaCare.


Obamacare isn't even active yet, so...




edit on 9-5-2012 by RealSpoke because: (no reason given)


Parts of it is. Its affecting certain hospitals and our taxes already because they are getting everything ready for 2013. I do watch Sean Hannity, I find him to be very good, I do question him sometimes, but not the particular topic I posted. That topic was about some type of unity tour with all the GOP candidates. In fact, Romney said last night on Sean's Show that he was not doing it. Herman Cain was talking about it, but Romney said no...



posted on May, 9 2012 @ 07:15 PM
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I guess nobody really cares about the real issues....



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 



So with the polarization of the left right paradigm which some on here says do not exist, is it any wonder to anybody, that these campaign fundraising techniques are being used to contribute to the election? I say, someone is ignorant if they do not believe in this left/right debate going on in America. You may not like it, but it exists. When it comes to politics, you have to be very careful about voicing your opinions and you have to remain neutral at all times in public life.


I’ve heard this argument several times here on ATS, that the left/right paradigm is a ploy to get us idiots fighting amongst ourselves.
RIGHT!!

There are OBVIOUSLY two very different positions on how the country should be run, which are left or right leaning. The reason people think it’s a false paradigm is because they look at people like Romney and Obama and think they are representative of the two sides. In reality, Obama is pretty far left and Romney is left of center…hence the confusion. Comparing those two is comparing far left to left rather than far left to far right. If they knew true conservatism they’d see the difference and the left/right contrast would be apparent.



posted on May, 10 2012 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by jjf3rd77
 



So I want to ask ATS members this very simple question. What are the real issues? Is it the NWO? Government corruption? Political fundraising? Ron Paul? Police brutality (which has become ironically silenced after OWS)? The UN? The Financial situation?


I think we might disagree on this…

The “real issues” are what people feel strongly about. I truly believe there is a NWO and I believe there is a small group controlling the economies and governments of all major countries. They control the money and have the power. That is a huge issue to me.

I think government corruption and NWO go hand in hand. I’m not saying that all of the corruption is NWO related but the main pursuit of the NWO is money and power, so they have ties to almost all of the top businesses and all of the top politicians in the world.


Ron Paul is a guy who understands these issues. I should be a huge supporter but I’m not because his social and defense policies are misguided IMO. This is a real problem for me!! I want to love RP because he GETS IT! But I can’t overlook the problems I have with his policies on social issues and defense. This is the most important issue to ME personally because I haven’t even voted in the primary yet here in Texas.

UN?? NWO! Radicals! Need I say more?

The financial situation of our country? NWO! Radicals!

IMO the biggest issue of the day is how do THE PEOPLE of America regain power…the way the constitution prescribes…because we’ve obviously lost the power to corrupt psychopathic elitists who are systematically dismantling the safe guards that have historically protected us. This IS a left/right issue in a way because the REAL RIGHT is our way out!! The left is bought and paid for. Centrist republicans like Bush and Romney are bought and paid for. The left in congress are a problem as are the so-called right! I think we need true conservatives and patriots to take the reins and oust the NWO crooks…just my opinion.



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