It all boils down to this

Dualism and non-dualism. The dilemma is if god is omni everything, (like the bible implies )he knows what your future holds. Therefore your choices are pre determined. You have no free will.On the contrary theres a little something called the uncertainty principle. Apparently god does play dice ( sorry einstein ) can this contradiction be resolved. Riddle me this ATS.

reply to post by Theophorus

Does knowledge on its own really predestine?
If I read a book I've read before, or a history book about a period I know well, I know exactly what every character is going to do.
But I'm not making them do it. It's just that what they are going to do is, from my viewpoint, what they've already done.

dualism...a mystery, I suppose

Oh, man....
an all boils down to thread, cool
we vets who fought and died for what, todays situation, the future outlook and what the scripture calls "iniquity" will cause the love of many to grow cold....needs the basic truth sqeezed out of it.....I know the truth and the outcome. I betcha we'll be alright if we talk to the author of the basic instructions before leaving earth.

God isn't omniscience (all-knowing), God is omnipresent (all-places) though. We are God, desire is the force of God which all things exist in. It is what keeps this universe in motion. Since desire is a force, something that energy is used to create other things such as thought forms of mythical or spiritual beings, it can even influence this physical reality.

God is not an entity outside of us but an entity all encompassing.

Believing in Determinism (no free-will) and believing in a god "outside" of you is a trick to control you. Peace!

Originally posted by DISRAELI
If I read a book I've read before, or a history book about a period I know well, I know exactly what every character is going to do. But I'm not making them do it. It's just that what they are going to do is, from my viewpoint, what they've already done.

If you are the author, you do make them do it.

Hebrews 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."

reply to post by Hydroman

Not just when I'm the author.
It includes books that other people have written.
King Charles has complete free-will to run the Civil War any way that he likes, but I know everything he's going to do wrong (which means I've got foreknowledge, from his perspective), and I'm not making him do it.


Ah, you've edited the post,
When I wrote this response, "when you are the author" seemed to imply "you only know when you are the author".

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Hydroman

 

Not just when I'm the author.
It includes books that other people have written.
King Charles has complete free-will to run the Civil War any way that he likes, but I know everything he's going to do wrong (which means I've got foreknowledge, from his perspective), and I'm not making him do it.

But you didn't make that story up. That story actually happened. An author that makes his own story controls what the characters do. This is god's story that he has written.

reply to post by Hydroman

The question remains open how much God is author and how much reader.
There are scriptural arguments for both.
My point was simply that foreknowledge does not by itself imply predestination.

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Hydroman

 

The question remains open how much God is author and how much reader.
There are scriptural arguments for both.
My point was simply that foreknowledge does not by itself imply predestination.

Romans 8:30 "And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

AH,...yes....but what if we are the only ones in "time"....
then the author reader logic wouldn't even apply....Am I wrong, I see" time" playing a role in that


edit to hydroman....predestined, I used to know some piece of interest about that word in scripture.....from andrew wommack....it wasn't the translation angle.......some how it "nullified" the case...

Originally posted by GBP/JPY
AH,...yes....but what if we are the only ones in "time"....
then the author reader logic wouldn't even apply....Am I wrong, I see" time" playing a role in that

Why wouldn't it apply? Not sure I understand what you mean.

Originally posted by Theophorus
Dualism and non-dualism. The dilemma is if god is omni everything, (like the bible implies )he knows what your future holds. Therefore your choices are pre determined. You have no free will.On the contrary theres a little something called the uncertainty principle. Apparently god does play dice ( sorry einstein ) can this contradiction be resolved. Riddle me this ATS.

"We may roll the dice, but the Lord determines how they fall." - Proverbs 16:33 NLT

Ever heard the saying "call on God but row away from the rocks"? It's entirely possible for free will to coexist with the divine plan, maybe sometimes God leaves those pages blank for us to write something in.

Omnipotence/omnipresent/omniscient... the three O's.
My friend brought this quote up one night, I think it might have been a quote from Thomas Aquinas, "God is so omniscient that He knows all the infinite amount of choices possible, and knows what choice you will make before you do so." So, technically, i believe that free will does exist, but don't expect to pull a fast one on God.

You must remember this
A kiss is still a kiss, a sigh is just a sigh
The fundamental things apply
As time goes by
And when two lovers woo
They still say, "I love you"
On that you can rely
No matter what the future brings
As time goes by
Moonlight and love songs
Never out of date

Somehow the op made me think of this song.

reply to post by Theophorus


Im of the opinion that everyone's life has a plan according to God... but we have free will... so we have a choice to follow that plan or not to...

If you act according to your own will... or act selfishly... you diverge from Gods path and set on your own...

IF one follows the path God has set for us... their life will be prosperous and fulfilling

This of course is only comming from my own experiences...

Originally posted by DISRAELI
reply to post by Theophorus

 

Does knowledge on its own really predestine?
If I read a book I've read before, or a history book about a period I know well, I know exactly what every character is going to do.
But I'm not making them do it. It's just that what they are going to do is, from my viewpoint, what they've already done.

Pretty much what i was gonna say. To him what were about to do has already been done, he already knows the outcome.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
That i was gonna say. To him what were about to do has already been done, he already knows the outcome.

Using that train of thought, explain Genesis 6. He had just created the world, and it was good...he said so himself. Man falls, which he knew would happen right, because he had a plan of redemption since the beginning of creation, didn't he? If so, then why throw a fit like he did in Genesis 6, and regret making man? His plan was to wipe them off the earth because he was so upset. But wait, didn't he have a plan of redemption to begin with? If so, then why get so upset, this is all part of the plan. Luckily, Noah found grace. Whew. He almost ruined his own plan.

I see it as being like one of those billboards along a highway, the kind with louvers, so there are two ads, one that you see from the left, and one you see from the right. So I picture this, I'm driving down the road, and there is a billboard up ahead. It reads "Free Will." OK, fine. I drive on by, and stop to look back. It now reads "Predestination." In this life, yes, it looks like we have free will. I suspect that in the age to come we will clearly see that all things were determined from the foundation of the world/age.

A lot of our perplexity devolves from our limited perspective. God exists outside time and space, and so transcends our human limits. He knows the end from the beginning. We just can not get our minds around that.