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In physics, the term observer effect refers to changes that the act of observation will make on the phenomenon being observed. This is often the result of instruments that, by necessity, alter the state of what they measure in some manner.
The experiment has two stages: first the experimenter marks through which slit each photon went, without disturbing their movement, and demonstrates that the interference pattern is destroyed. This stage shows that it is the existence of the "which-path" information which causes the destruction of the interference pattern.
The second stage goes by erasing the "which-path" information, and demonstrating that the interference pattern is recovered. It does not matter whether the erasure procedure is done before or after the detection of the photons.
The delayed choice quantum eraser, allows the decision whether to measure or destroy the "which path" information to be delayed until after the entangled particle partner (the one going through the slits) has either interfered with itself or not. Doing so appears to have the bizarre effect of causing the outcome of an event after the event has already occurred. In other words, something that happens at time t apparently reaches back to some time t - 1 and acts as a determining causal factor at that earlier time.
Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
reply to post by miniatus
Do you at least agree that the Observer Effect is not responsible for the collapse of the interference pattern, as shown with the Q Eraser Exp?
When they measure but immediately erase the info, the interference pattern is restored.
Originally posted by miniatus
I don't see how that has anything to do with human consciousness.. it seems to have everything to do with the act of measuring..
The intial claim is that Stapp "has found a way of modifying the basic equations of quantum theory to permit people to influence things that happened in the past".
Schmidt's experiments are described briefly. They involved a group of martial arts students as subjects, being shown prerecorded random numbers via an electronic display. The numbers had been generated some months earlier by an apparatus involving a radioactive source and a decay counter (radioactive decay timings being as "truly random" as anything one can find in nature). The students attempted to exert a mental "influence" on the visual display, whose behaviour was determined by the prerecorded numbers. In this way, they would be supposedly influencing the statistical distributions of the numbers themselves. "Remarkably", the article claims, a significant bias was found in the numbers, "one that had a less than 1 in 1000 probability of occuring by chance". It is claimed that "elaborate precautions were taken to prevent any cheating". Precise descriptions of experimental procedures in many similar experiments carried out by Schmidt can be found in the numerous articles available in the RPKP archive.
Originally posted by queenannie38
Originally posted by miniatus
I don't see how that has anything to do with human consciousness.. it seems to have everything to do with the act of measuring..
But ultimately WHO (or what) is measuring?
Even using a measuring device of some kind requires a human to operate or set up...and not only that, but a human is necessary, even, to bring that device into existence in the first place!
And it goes without saying that both the inventor/designer as well as the operator are CONSCIOUS humans.
Right?
Originally posted by miniatus
I don't think you proved that human consciousness is interfering with anything.. unless you're erasing the "which-path" information from your brain, you will still know it .. your consciousness will still know it .. but the fact this information can be erased.. ( erased from what, the measure device I would imagine? ) .. shows it's NOT human consciousness but still something to do with the measurement.. perhaps the act of measuring removes information from the particle itself and erasing it restores it on a quantum level? ( I'm not physicist ) ..
But still .. unless you're erasing it from your consciousness, I don't see how you did anything but prove yourself wrong..?
According to Kim, et al., "The actual mechanisms that enforce complementarity vary from one experimental situation to another."[1] In the double-slit experiment, the common wisdom is that complementarity makes it seemingly impossible to determine which slit the photon passes through without at the same time disturbing it enough to destroy the interference pattern. A 1982 paper by Scully and Drühl circumvented the issue of disturbance due to direct measurement of the photon,[4] according to Kim, et al. Scully and Drühl "found a way around the position-momentum uncertainty obstacle and proposed a quantum eraser to obtain which-path or particle-like information without introducing large uncontrolled phase factors to disturb the interference."[1]
They are referring to erasing the information from the measuring device.. this tells me that the mere act of measuring has altered the state of the photon .. erasing that information from the measuring device allows the state to return to as it was before it was measured..
Originally posted by queenannie38
Originally posted by miniatus
I don't see how that has anything to do with human consciousness.. it seems to have everything to do with the act of measuring..
But ultimately WHO (or what) is measuring?
Even using a measuring device of some kind requires a human to operate or set up...and not only that, but a human is necessary, even, to bring that device into existence in the first place!
And it goes without saying that both the inventor/designer as well as the operator are CONSCIOUS humans.
Right?
Originally posted by RandomEsotericScreenname
reply to post by miniatus
They are referring to erasing the information from the measuring device.. this tells me that the mere act of measuring has altered the state of the photon .. erasing that information from the measuring device allows the state to return to as it was before it was measured..
With the measurement one could say the particle is potentially influenced, but how is the particle influenced again if they erase it from the measuring device?
Yes it is allowed to return to the state it had before the wich path info was known, correct, by making the info unavailable, not by influencing the particle again.
This should tell you that measuring in the first place is NOT what altered the state of the particle, but the mere fact that the info is erased and unavailable, to something or someone.
Since there are no conscious things, I would say again that the only logical explanation is human consciousness.
This should tell you that measuring in the first place is NOT what altered the state of the particle, but the mere fact that the info is erased and unavailable, to something or someone.