Germany - A Koran in Every Household

Why not let people choose for themselves? If they want to follow Islam, surely they will do so by their on accord. Look at how many celebrities have chosen to change faith.

I'd like to see them try and hand a copy to some crazed neo-nazi

reply to post by Germanicus


Dude, you don´t know anything about that book! you seem to be pretty young though, so just listen! It IS an evil death cult and I AM german, and it is disgusting, how many parts of our society are too weak/cowardous, too brainwashed to oppose.
We still suffer the WW2 stigma. Sometimes I could cry, how easily people throw away the frame of values we fought for for centuries just for the good of (*effin') political correctness.

These salafists are radicals who openly oppose our form society and at the same time benefit from it without contributing anything positve. And believe me if you want to be "a good enough person" (what a laughable statement) living by the quran striving to live by every "law" in it, dude you ARE getting radical.
Just look at all these converted guys.

I can´t let aside your statement, though. "I am not a good enough person..." - wtf, man?
ADVICE (out of personal exerience):

1. selfreflect
2. work on your deficiencies
but 3. NEVER give up the "christian" values

NOBODY can tell me, islamic society is in ANY form ahead of ours. They where. In persian times maybe. But the stop they progress at some point and are still living in dark ages.

RANT paused for now.

Originally posted by BigNOIDindaHouse
reply to post by Germanicus

 

Dude, you don´t know anything about that book! you seem to be pretty young though, so just listen! It IS an evil death cult and I AM german, and it is disgusting, how many parts of our society are too weak/cowardous, too brainwashed to oppose.
We still suffer the WW2 stigma. Sometimes I could cry, how easily people throw away the frame of values we fought for for centuries just for the good of (*effin') political correctness.

These salafists are radicals who openly oppose our form society and at the same time benefit from it without contributing anything positve. And believe me if you want to be "a good enough person" (what a laughable statement) living by the quran striving to live by every "law" in it, dude you ARE getting radical.
Just look at all these converted guys.

I can´t let aside your statement, though. "I am not a good enough person..." - wtf, man?
ADVICE (out of personal exerience):

1. selfreflect
2. work on your deficiencies
but 3. NEVER give up the "christian" values

NOBODY can tell me, islamic society is in ANY form ahead of ours. They where. In persian times maybe. But the stop they progress at some point and are still living in dark ages.

RANT paused for now.

edit on 18-4-2012 by BigNOIDindaHouse because: grammar

edit on 18-4-2012 by BigNOIDindaHouse because: grammar again

Dude, I'm from Germany too, I am quite old and I can tell you this: everyone thinking that any "parts of our society are too weak/cowardous, too brainwashed to oppose" is deeply suspicious to any thinking man, as that person is too fanatical to discuss with.

Stop it. This whole quran-thing has left NO traces other than (a) there are salafists in Germany (okay, we knew that before), (b) they are on a mission (huh, would have never guessed that..) and (c) there are NO new convertists just because of these free books.

Get one. Give it to Jehovas Witnesses, when they come over..

But never, never think that giving out qurans is an attack against Germany.

This is a media PR-stunt, nothing more.

reply to post by seentoomuch


Wow, that's gotta be one the more ludicrous stories I've ever heard. Pretty fanciful.

You'd make a good fiction writer some day.

Even in the faintest chance that story has any truth to it, it does not represent all Muslims in the slightest.

But again, this sounds like the kind of story a pathological liar with a Münchausen syndrome would come up with.

Did you call the police? Were there any arrests? Do you have a news article about it?

Because if something that ridiculous happened there would have to be at least one shred of evidence.

Which I highly doubt you possess.

Originally posted by BigNOIDindaHouse
Dude, you don´t know anything about that book! you seem to be pretty young though, so just listen! It IS an evil death cult and I AM german, and it is disgusting, how many parts of our society are too weak/cowardous, too brainwashed to oppose.

The founder of Islam, Muhammad, was himself a military warlord who spread Islam by the sword (he conquered the Arabian peninsula before he died), so it isn't so surprising that some Muslims choose to follow his example.

In the space of a single decade Muhammad

• fought 8 major battles,
• led 18 raids,
• planned another 38 military operations where others were in command but operating under his orders and strategic direction.

HistoryNet

Major battles were exactly that.

• At Kheibar in 628 C.E., the Muslim army was 2,000 combatants.
• When Muhammad mounted his assault on Mecca (630 C.E.) he did so with 10,000 men.
• And at the Battle of Hunayn a few months later the army numbered 12,000.

Source: Islamic Imperialism: A History by Karsh, E. (2007)

Are Muslims aware that Muhammad was a military leader who spread Islam by the sword?

The Koran and the Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith (scared to Sunnis who make up about 85% of all Muslims worldwide) make it abundantly clear that Muhammad was a military general who spread Islam by the sword.

Yet apologists for Islam continue to tell us that Islam is a religion of peace.

Originally posted by Germanicus
reply to post by DarthMuerte

 

Why? Have you ever read it? Its not some satanic book

Its prety much like the bible. Especially the first bit.

Dont be scared.

Edit- I started learning about this stuff way before all the scare tactics. I was really interested in Malcolm X so I naturally started to learn about what it is to be muslim. I considered converting but decided I wasnt a good enough person.

edit on 17-4-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)

There's some English nutter I was once reading about, a complete and utter lunatic with out of this world racist beliefs, I think he was involved in Combat 18.. He started reading Islamic stuff, including the Qu'ran, to better learn about his enemy(so he could beat them in arguments) - he ended up "accidentally" converting himself in the process

I can't remember his name, was a funny story. I think now he leads his own occult cult. Interesting fella

edit, found him - en.wikipedia.org... ,,, well worth a read

reply to post by ManFromEurope


I know where you are heading with "deeply suspicious to any..." but you are wrong. The only thing I focused
on with my description is the political-correctness-muzzle everybody bows to. (BTW, was there a little taste of "He must be nazi - end of discussion!" ?)

Just look at the Sarrazin discussion.It was not about the content (except on specific part of his book), it was about "OOHH he just can´t be saying that!!!"

I don´t know where you live, friend. I was born and am still living in Berlin. When I travel around our country I regularly become aware of how special the situation is here, compared to most (not all) of the other parts in germany. What do YOU think? Why is there an ongoing discussion about failed integration. It´s not just the failures and myopia of the then ruling politicians. It´s refusal, too and you should know.

Clash of cultures springs to mind. There is a deep discrepancy between our society (only meaning social values and structure here) and the "rules" in islam. You don´t seem to know the quran. I do. And don´t think there aren´t many mentally unstable folks out there who will be unsettle, be it just questioning said values. There are.

But coming back to the original topic of this thread, when you think about that action of the so-called salafists. What else is it, if not a (subtile) attack against our society. The original slogan of it was "Lies!" and that´s what´s in that book: lies.

And I am not starting a discussion about religion as a whole, that´s a different issue.

Originally posted by seentoomuch

Originally posted by ideasarebulletproof

Originally posted by Sahabi

Note: No christians I have ever met or heard about mark you as someone to kill if you do not follow their faith. That was all left behind in the Dark Ages, but the extremist Muslims do, so sad, so sick, so pathetic. I pray for the women and children raised in that environment, so twisted. There's no doubt in my mind that this "giving" of the Koran is part of a procedure, some twisted, sick plan.

edit on 4/17/2012 by seentoomuch because: (no reason given)

That´s my point of view,too. Who is investing in printing 25 million (!) books for the purpose of giving it away for free, without having any form of agenda? And remember, there isn´t any church with money behind it.

Originally posted by BigNOIDindaHouse
reply to post by ManFromEurope

 

I know where you are heading with "deeply suspicious to any..." but you are wrong. The only thing I focused
on with my description is the political-correctness-muzzle everybody bows to. (BTW, was there a little taste of "He must be nazi - end of discussion!" ?)

Maaaaaaaybeee...
But okay, you negate that, so that point is done for.

Just look at the Sarrazin discussion.It was not about the content (except on specific part of his book), it was about "OOHH he just can´t be saying that!!!"

Oh dear, that old Sarrazin discussion. As a fact I didn't read his book, but have a associate here who did and he said it was all about statistics - so I will not discuss that book as (a) I didn't read it for myself and (b) every thing the media said about it was biased in one way or the other.

I don´t know where you live, friend. I was born and am still living in Berlin. When I travel around our country I regularly become aware of how special the situation is here, compared to most (not all) of the other parts in germany. What do YOU think? Why is there an ongoing discussion about failed integration. It´s not just the failures and myopia of the then ruling politicians. It´s refusal, too and you should know.

Did you watch the news yesterday or read the newspaper today? Its all about those "anonymous job applications" and how they worked very fine for women and immigrants. Sure, there are immigrants who are (in my opinion) deeply indoctrinated to condemn our culture, but many, many more are there who would just like to live their lives in the best way achievable in Germany and that is most likely by living like Germans - any other way would bring up obstacles and suspiciousness in their neighborhoud.

Maybe they just need being given the chance to get good jobs - one islamic woman got a job as a head of division, just like that. I don't think that she would have gotten that job by sending out an application with her photo and name on it..

Maybe they just want to live like everyone else.

As I said, there are always stupid people (in every population of course). Being a criminal may lead to a more prosperous than living in an appartement block in Berlin Neukölln, and as long as that is a role model for young, less educated (seen the schools in Neukölln?.. I wouldn't like to have my kids there..), you will get new young criminals.

Clash of cultures springs to mind. There is a deep discrepancy between our society (only meaning social values and structure here) and the "rules" in islam. You don´t seem to know the quran. I do. And don´t think there aren´t many mentally unstable folks out there who will be unsettle, be it just questioning said values. There are.

In fact, there are not so many discrepancies as you would think. Of course they dress different and behave different - but in tolerable ways. There are no Muttawas on Berlins streets. There is no force on non-islamic women to dress in burqas. Let them live their lives as long as they don't interfere with yours, that is my way of looking at others. Every other way is the way of "we are better than them and they should *damnit* accept that!" - and that is rubbish. Simply said, it is Herrenmenschentum. And we are over that, right?

But coming back to the original topic of this thread, when you think about that action of the so-called salafists. What else is it, if not a (subtile) attack against our society. The original slogan of it was "Lies!" and that´s what´s in that book: lies.

Wow. Lies? Like the lies in the bible? Come on, you can't regard to a complete religion by saying that it's based on lies.

Fine, hand me a free Bible and a free Quran,
i´m running low on rolling papers.

Just to remind you, we are not talking about moderate muslims handing out Korans here.

Salafists and their likes are the extremists, the kind that supports violent terrorism, killing apostates, homosexuals and stoning adulterers. And yes, they do not make up majority of muslims, but they do make a very large minority, meaning hundreds of millions of adherents and tens of % of global muslim population.

reply to post by Freeborn


It's amazing how we in the west have turned a blind eye to the actions of the House of Saud. Guilty of the same human rights offenses as the other middle eastern nations we impose sanctions on and bomb. Yet Saudi arabia and Bahrain get away scot free. Weren't the majority of the 9/11 bombers from Saudi. Instead these regimes are invited to meet with our leaders and tea with the Queen and Bahrain gets the Grand prix. It seems these despotic monarchies are all good in the eyes of the west.

Originally posted by Maslo
Salafists and their likes are the extremists, the kind that supports violent terrorism, killing apostates, homosexuals and stoning adulterers.

Correction:
The extremists are the true muslims. Most people don't know how to read the koran. The newer verses supercede the older ones.

And interestingly enough, the newer ones are also the most violent.

I dont even have a bible......i'll be damned if I have a koran in my home......

Originally posted by Germanicus
But what is wrong with it? Wouldnt it educate people on islam?

Edit-

The initiative is monitored by a branch of the German security service in case it violates constitutional rules on religious freedom.

According to the report, the campaign is led by a Cologne-based cleric, Ibrahim Abou Nagie, who said he wants to save non-Muslims from hell.

europenews.dk...

That is a slightly less sensational article. You people shouldnt be so scared of everything. They are giving books away. They cant make people take them. I have a copy myself. Why not learn about it?

Free books. Call the cops

There is no need to be so scared of everything.

edit on 17-4-2012 by Germanicus because: (no reason given)

And how has Islam fared in... say, Islamic nations? Thousands fleeing every year. Persecuted and in fear for their lives, they FLEE islamic nations, where the Qur'an is everywhere. It works so well in the countries that enforce a much embrace it, we should all have one. Yay.

Just what good has the book done where it originates, let alone in countries where it offers a very abrasive alternative to western society?

reply to post by Kemal


Indeed.

Originally posted by Germanicus
I hate the west and I actually live here. Im not surprised that there are extremists when the American Army invades their land.

The truth. At first the message was hidden, behind the "What's wrong with it?" question, when the reality of it is You simply hate the west, and would most likely side against it should you ever have the opportunity.

That is the honestly scary thing. First the lie hides behind good intent, until it finds an escape and then it reveals itself. Taqiyya in it's clearest form. And the exact mechanism that allows the threat of extremist attack a REAL possibility, because it gives free run of those who'd enact such ideas, and it also by default, puts anyone who questions it in the big nasty racist bigot basket.

"I've read the Qur'an and it's a good book."
"Maybe it will make people more aware about Islam."
"I hate the west...."

I see the trend, and I know where this thread will go...

... as long as they don't interfere with yours, that is my way of looking at others. Every other way is the way of "we are better than them and they should *damnit* accept that!" - and that is rubbish. Simply said, it is Herrenmenschentum. And we are over that, right?

I see your point, but there you go again ... ("Simply said, it is Herrenmenschentum") What does Adolf Nazi has to do with that discussion? And as said by others above, we are not talking about moderate muslims handing out Korans here. Oh and/but there IS muttawa-ish behavior inside many families in Germany. Just look at the honor-killings on open street. (Muttawa=Mutaween=religious police for all who care).

But coming back to the original topic of this thread, when you think about that action of the so-called salafists. What else is it, if not a (subtile) attack against our society. The original slogan of it was "Lies!" and that´s what´s in that book: lies.

Wow. Lies? Like the lies in the bible? Come on, you can't regard to a complete religion by saying that it's based on lies.

Last word on that from my side. Read the quran. It´s not a collection of stories. These are instructions and claims. As are in the talmud. Don´t get me wrong, I consider the bible as equally counter productive for the development of the human mind, but more harmless none the less.
Let GZA speak for me: For years religion did nothing but divide. Peace

I am confident germans will read it as intensively as they read the bible.