SHTF 1/3 Americans QUIT Work! Angry ends near dont hav anything to live 4 just want Benefits not Job

reply to post by BiggerPicture


well, my sons aren't declared as dependents and they haven't worked much at all, and they haven't probably paid much, but well, they haven't had too much opportunities of late in the job market, and are basically living on our charity!! and...
this household in total income earns less that the mean...meaning 50% or the households earn more, 50% of the households earn less. we have no dependents...just me and my hubby, kids file their own returns, and well.
we did actually get a return this year.....only because I adjusted my withholding to assure that we didn't owe again this year!!!
so, you claim that 50% aren't paying taxes......more than 50% are earning more than us....so those that are. are obviously taking advantage of deductions and credits that we aren't!! you got another explanation?? more than likely, they have a kid or two, who they pay to have put in daycare, or they have a home office, with a car that is used for the business that they are running, ect. ect. bought solar panels, or have a mortgage, or whatever....

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


You're right... i noticed the same thing about loads of people walking around during weekdays!!

I wonder if my proposal for a silent demonstration by not going to work has actually started... but that figure does seem pretty high...

well said, detached.

re other 2 previous posters:

true, delving into tax laws CPA financial niche which i know nothing about nor need to in greater scheme of things (despite the PO Topic not being about Income vs Payroll/Sales tax at all) and what not, some people pay payroll tax but not income tax. ie if u make 10k/yr taxable income or less you are considered BELOW POVERTY whether you work or not. so of course they aren't going to take income tax your measly 10k/yr as you're considered a POVERTY case, then, theres tax evasion. but yes some payroll tax will come out i see you're asking yet youre saying you know its around 30% so i'm not sure why the indirect rhetoric if that's what it is.

but hey, once you mentioned 'sales tax' i can't help but not bother.

cuz that is sidetracking into nit-pickery at what the articles and surveys cant humanly survey nitty gritty and more importantly, evading what the topic and references articles are reporting and the surveys are finding.

iie asking why people confuse income tax with payroll tax - again meant for a payroll forum and obviously something i can't answer - how can i answer why people are confused about a niche financial topic as that?

anyways..to reiterate the FICTION...

Percentage of Americans who don’t pay income taxes, now accounts for nearly half of the U.S. population. Meanwhile, most of that population receives generous federal benefits.

+

The percentage of people who do not pay federal income taxes, and who are not claimed as dependents by someone who does pay them, jumped from 14.8 percent in 1984 to 49.5 percent in 2009.”

and so what i would like to know as far as the "Bigger Picture" of it all, is why the percentage of people who do not pay federal income taxes, and who are not claimed as dependents by someone who does pay them, jumped from 14.8 percent in 1984 to 49.5 percent in 2009

obviously the answer doesn't like in details payroll vs sales tax yada yada

so the big question is why are half of Americans NO LONGER paying any fed *income* taxe at all (since 1984)... what happened after 1984?


there are multiple news articles online, saying the same thing and quoting the statistics from the governemt sources, that match.i guess they are all "FICTION" per the previous previous poster.yet everything is fine and dandy and the whole topic and all the articles posted up front and yt videos are ALL fabrications... including the following additional link...

www.csmonitor.com...

and it gets to the point, i guess a purely FICTIONAL point, too LOL:

Half of Americans don't pay income tax. So what. The increase in reliance on government assistanceis the problem, not a lack of people who pay income tax.

now that's the long and short of it, after pages and pages of PURE FICTION. it boils down to the above purely fictitious, compact fear mongering conclusion, the end.

reply to post by BiggerPicture

well, I think it's safe to say that probably the top 10% or so of income earners don't really earn their income, it's more through investment of the money they already have....
and that kind of income has been enjoying a nice big tax break of late......

and, in case you haven't noticed, most of the raises have gone to the higher income brackets of late, not to use low income earners....
I keep finding myself asking....is this because those higher income earners earn more than the limit of the social security tax, a nd therefor, the boss can give the a raise without increasing the business tax liability?? which isn't actually related to the income tax directly, but it might shed some light onto why there are more and more people falling into the realm of those who don't pay any income tax.

but, that 50% or so that don't pay taxes don't follow along the income brackets and are more scattered amoung many, since we've always earned below the mean, and this is the first year we haven't owed more than they had taken out of the paychecks and had to write a check out for them!!! and that was because I got sick of that crap (we have a multitude of local taxes that come due at the same time) and insanely adjusted my withholding to the point where I knew for sure we wouldn't owe them!!!

Wow this is a depressing thread. Not that I completely agree with the numbers but there are some truths in at least the sentiment or the message.

What we have is the "Death of Hope". So many average people just thought life as we knew it would go on and we would work and try to give our children a little better life than we had and they would do the same and so on.

When we were slapped with the corruption of the Enron, then the financial and housing crisis...we all suddenly had to come to grips that there is nothing you have that someone can't take away and it just broke the spirit of millions of people. People thought "if I work hard, I can make a decent wage and life will be marvelously mundane and predictable"...what a wake up call we all got. Not to mention during the last decade or so all the jobs the quietly vanished without a whisper or puff of smoke...just gone to the country with the cheapest slaves...erm...workers.

I am not into the "doom and gloom" aspect. I think we are resilient and eventually hope will come back...but not for awhile. People first have to accept what happened and where they are and then adjust accordingly.

No, just because the psychoanalysts say "everyone is a winner and should get a trophy"....that is not reality. No...not everyone gets to have a big screen TV, smart phones, endless cable and satellites channels....hell, not everyone gets to eat everyday...you can feel sorry for yourself and resent the world for your troubles...or you can buck up, put one foot in front of the other and use whatever skill and talent you have to do the best you can...maybe it won't be "top notch"...but this is the world our apathy made over the last 15 to 20 years....now we have to live with it and in it.

I`ve always suspected that the unemployment rate was much higher than the %9 that the government has been reporting,but I never suspected that the true unemployment rate was over %40.If you don`t have a job you are unemployed and should be counted as such in the official unemployment rate.

It may be true that %50 of americans don`t pay income tax but I wonder how many of those %50 are %1ers who exploit tax loopholes and don`t pay any income tax?

I live here in Henderson Nevada. The unemployment rate is at 13.7%. I was laid off from a 13 year I.S. position that paid me close to 90k a year. I was laid off 9 months ago. For the first 2 months, I collected unemployment. Since then, I have worked miscellaneous temporary/part time jobs. Some of those employment opportunities included delivering pizza and warehouse dock work. I am a single Father with 2 children. My ex-wife and I share equally the responsibilities of our children. Since I was laid off, I have had to give up my home and made a great many sacrifices. In all, I have learned to live to my means.

When I hear that people can’t find jobs out there, I just want to throw-up! The fact of the matter is that there are MANY employment opportunities! Just NOT the ones most of these dead beat lazy azzes are willing to do! I could have easily sucked unemployment dry! But I didn’t! I don’t even make a fraction of what I made! Not even close to what I made in unemployment! What happen to America working hard for anything? When I hear people whine about they’re unemployment running out after 2 years, I am embarrass! Embarrassed that my fellow American can’t do what’s right or true anymore! There is a difference in WANTING something, and there is a difference in NEEDING something! I have 2 children I love very much! It doesn’t matter to me how big my house is, the car I drive, shoes I ware, people I know, etc... As long as I can work hard for something, give my kids a warm safe happy place to live, food in their mouths, than I am happy!

Americans are lazy, lazy, AND lazy! What a bunch of crybabies! Must be tough to lose that gravy train after 2 years! Mmmmmm, what am I going to do???? Well, I guess I can just tell people that I’m’ suicidal and have become a danger to myself and others. That’ll get me back on track to living the free loadin kind of life. Give me a break!

If you have to be on unemployment for over 6 months, than I consider you a welfare sucking reciprocate! If you can’t step up in life, than move out to another country that will provide the world to you for free! I don’t care what kind of excuses people try to come up with to avoid work! It might not be what you wish, but the jobs are out there! You might not be making what you once made, but either way, its work! If you’re too proud to work at Mc Donald’s, than don’t complain if you starve! Have “a little” dignity! Do what’s right! Set an example for your children!

reply to post by BiggerPicture

furthermore, Americans are increasingly carrying unpaid debt + acruuing interest for years, decades after graduation.

That's why it is a bad idea to major in art in college.

Aren't we not all living the life of Pinocchio and the governments that are going to turn us all into donkeys ?

reply to post by dalan.


or engineering I guess??

www.mcclatchydc.com...


just what do you suggest the kids go into college for??
mbas?? or political science??

reply to post by Propulsion


I worked hard from the time I was 14 until I was 36, when I was told after seven operations that I was no longer hire-able and was considered physically disabled. Since then I have been on disability, had several more operations and illnesses in between...but don't feel that I owe an explanation for collecting disability. Nor should I be made to feel ashamed of myself. I beat myself up enough without having to answer to anyone else who may have misconceptions about a person collecting disability and/or those calling it a handout.

Anyone who has walked in my shoes, or similar, knows that living on disability is not something aspired to or enjoyed as being lucky enough [to stay at home and live off of the hard working taxpayers money]. Most people that I know who are disabled have a great deal of respect for those hard workers, and are more grateful and humbled than most can imagine ever having to be.

Unemployment figures don't portray the whole picture. These jobs aren't being filled either, they were found to be not necessary for the company in the first place. The companies are making more money selling less. Fake Economies never work. Put people back to work creating jobs here in America. Make toasters and coffee pots, tools and appliances. Get rid of the law that allows a tag to be added to the product that says "Made in America" to be applied if one part is put on the imported product in America. Destroy the laws that cover this deceit.

I am out of work and have been for one year. Because I work as a lecturer (on call professor) I am not eligible for any unemployment benefits. Fortunately my spouse makes good money and we can both live on it. I am one of the unemployed who is not counted and doesn't count as far as the government is concerned. Add me to the list of forgotten and unemployed. NOT happily unemployed.

reply to post by RobinB022

Doesn't it suck being disabled? I hate it sometimes. I wish I could just go back to work but will probably never be able to unless I can find a cure for this Epilepsy on my own. It doesn't help to be allergic to all the epilepsy drugs.

Originally posted by Propulsion

Americans are lazy, lazy, AND lazy! What a bunch of crybabies! Must be tough to lose that gravy train after 2 years! Mmmmmm, what am I going to do???? Well, I guess I can just tell people that I’m’ suicidal and have become a danger to myself and others. That’ll get me back on track to living the free loadin kind of life. Give me a break!

If you have to be on unemployment for over 6 months, than I consider you a welfare sucking reciprocate! If you can’t step up in life, than move out to another country that will provide the world to you for free! I don’t care what kind of excuses people try to come up with to avoid work! It might not be what you wish, but the jobs are out there! You might not be making what you once made, but either way, its work! If you’re too proud to work at Mc Donald’s, than don’t complain if you starve! Have “a little” dignity! Do what’s right! Set an example for your children!

I can assure you US citizens are far from lazy. I have had the privilege of working all over the world for a number of years and people in the US have less days off of work than the rest of the world.

Now I do agree a good example is something to teach children, but when the ratio of just living, paying bills, and keeping afloat is far outweighed even if someone works 3 crappy jobs, then something is very wrong.

We are so preoccupied with the scraps that are being presented to us we are missing the whole picture.

IMO farmers should be the wealthiest people on the planet because they actually produce something from the ground, but everything is so manipulated these days that pencil pushers, that have zero conscious can fleece the system with a few phone calls and be multimillionaire.

The system as it stands currently was and is unsustainable.

Originally posted by RobinB022
reply to post by Propulsion

 

I worked hard from the time I was 14 until I was 36, when I was told after seven operations that I was no longer hire-able and was considered physically disabled. Since then I have been on disability, had several more operations and illnesses in between...but don't feel that I owe an explanation for collecting disability. Nor should I be made to feel ashamed of myself. I beat myself up enough without having to answer to anyone else who may have misconceptions about a person collecting disability and/or those calling it a handout.

Anyone who has walked in my shoes, or similar, knows that living on disability is not something aspired to or enjoyed as being lucky enough [to stay at home and live off of the hard working taxpayers money]. Most people that I know who are disabled have a great deal of respect for those hard workers, and are more grateful and humbled than most can imagine ever having to be.

Your situation is different from most that are collecting unemployment. I have MS, and I know what it’s like. You should not feel bad.

I’m sorry for your situation. I hope everything works out for the better. Hang in there bubb…

It's amazing how many of your are severely uninformed.

I couldn't read anymore after the 2nd page, after all the fuzzy math I encountered. If someone already covered this fine, my bad.

Here is a good article on the changes in the Labor Force Participation Rate from 2008-present.
www.epi.org...

If you take a Macroeconomics class, this topic will be one of the first few discussed.

The Labor Force is defined by the number of people employed plus the number of unemployed who are actively seeking work. It does not include Children, Retirees, Students, Housewives, Medically Disabled, and any other group of people not participating, which is also inclusive of people who have stopped looking for work.
Link: www.bls.gov...

The current US population is ~ 300,000,000 and is the number your calculations should reflect. We don't just tag on 30 million people because we assume they hid from the census.

The Current rate as of February is 63.7% which reflects ~191 million in the labor force. This rate is also close to the relative average which is normally 2/3 of the US. This is not something that has dramatically changed. If the rate fell to 50% or lower, it would most certainly be a SHTF experience. This is not the case and the last few months (SINCE FEB) have shown and increase in the overall rates.

The LFPR has been steadily increasing since 1975. So this isn't like the frog in a pot of boiling water.

The LFPR has dropped 2.5% in the last 4 years. Which is the most dramatic fluctuation in the last 30+ years. Even so, the 2.5% reflects only 750k people who stopped looking for work, went back to school, or retired. [ (0.025) * 300mill = 750k ]

1/3 of the population is usually not part of the participation rate. Just because you finally educated yourselves does not mean we jump to radical conclusions that are purely speculative.

And since there was some confusion about this, the UNEMPLOYMENT RATES are calculated by defining the labor force then dividing the number of unemployed who are actively seeking work by the number in the labor force or ==> [Unemployed / Labor Force = Unemployment Rate]

So if we have ~191 in the labor force and ~8.3% unemployment rate, using algebraic properties we can find the number of unemployed ===> [ 0.083 * 191,100,000 = 15,861,300 ] , so ~ 16 million people are unemployed. You can add this number to the people not in the labor force, but it is not an accurate measurement of the unemployed in this country, it is a fictitious number that includes people in the labor force who aren't looking for work. This is what the OP is talking about, and this shows why he is wrong.

A SHTF scenario isn't going to occur simply because 750k people stopped looking for work over a 4 year average. These 750k maybe the middle class who found their positions becoming obsolete, and they may be more aware and technically adherent to notify people about their opinions compared to if the lower class experienced high employment rate drop offs. More significantly, your service jobs, account for little in the US GDP, in fact the majority of the GDP comes from taxing us, even those not working. And selling bonds to recoupe from spending deficits.

The real scenario we should worry about, is a sudden halt of foreigners (mainly china) buying US security bonds, while predicted unlikely by US & Foreign economists. It's still feasible if they wanted to move away from the USD as the currency standard.

Originally posted by Realtruth

Originally posted by Propulsion

Americans are lazy, lazy, AND lazy! What a bunch of crybabies! Must be tough to lose that gravy train after 2 years! Mmmmmm, what am I going to do???? Well, I guess I can just tell people that I’m’ suicidal and have become a danger to myself and others. That’ll get me back on track to living the free loadin kind of life. Give me a break!

If you have to be on unemployment for over 6 months, than I consider you a welfare sucking reciprocate! If you can’t step up in life, than move out to another country that will provide the world to you for free! I don’t care what kind of excuses people try to come up with to avoid work! It might not be what you wish, but the jobs are out there! You might not be making what you once made, but either way, its work! If you’re too proud to work at Mc Donald’s, than don’t complain if you starve! Have “a little” dignity! Do what’s right! Set an example for your children!

I can assure you US citizens are far from lazy. I have had the privilege of working all over the world for a number of years and people in the US have less days off of work than the rest of the world.

Now I do agree a good example is something to teach children, but when the ratio of just living, paying bills, and keeping afloat is far outweighed even if someone works 3 crappy jobs, then something is very wrong.

We are so preoccupied with the scraps that are being presented to us we are missing the whole picture.

IMO farmers should be the wealthiest people on the planet because they actually produce something from the ground, but everything is so manipulated these days that pencil pushers, that have zero conscious can fleece the system with a few phone calls and be multimillionaire.

The system as it stands currently was and is unsustainable.

I never said all people are lazy. There are many Americans who work hard, but many won’t chew their pride and take the lesser paying job. I live here in the states, and it seems as though there is a trend going on. More and more Americans are relying on the system to get bye. It’s pretty sad.

I agree, I think farmers should get paid more. I was born and raised on a farm in northern Minnesota. It's hard work. I think police officers, firemen, and teachers should be the highest paid. People who put themselves in danger should get the most money. Not movie stars or athletes. Our priorities are screwed up here in America.

Originally posted by Realtruth

Originally posted by Propulsion

Americans are lazy, lazy, AND lazy! What a bunch of crybabies! Must be tough to lose that gravy train after 2 years! Mmmmmm, what am I going to do???? Well, I guess I can just tell people that I’m’ suicidal and have become a danger to myself and others. That’ll get me back on track to living the free loadin kind of life. Give me a break!

If you have to be on unemployment for over 6 months, than I consider you a welfare sucking reciprocate! If you can’t step up in life, than move out to another country that will provide the world to you for free! I don’t care what kind of excuses people try to come up with to avoid work! It might not be what you wish, but the jobs are out there! You might not be making what you once made, but either way, its work! If you’re too proud to work at Mc Donald’s, than don’t complain if you starve! Have “a little” dignity! Do what’s right! Set an example for your children!

I can assure you US citizens are far from lazy. I have had the privilege of working all over the world for a number of years and people in the US have less days off of work than the rest of the world.

Now I do agree a good example is something to teach children, but when the ratio of just living, paying bills, and keeping afloat is far outweighed even if someone works 3 crappy jobs, then something is very wrong.

We are so preoccupied with the scraps that are being presented to us we are missing the whole picture.

IMO farmers should be the wealthiest people on the planet because they actually produce something from the ground, but everything is so manipulated these days that pencil pushers, that have zero conscious can fleece the system with a few phone calls and be multimillionaire.

The system as it stands currently was and is unsustainable.

Well said!

I completely agree that sometimes people forget that in other countries, you "start" a term of employment with a month vacation....not one week after a year and 2 weeks after 5 years. Americans are hard working and have become acclimated to long hours and few days off. We are over-worked, under appreciated and definitely under-rewarded. Americans were and are still....the paid slaves of the world...if our work ethic is declining, it is because we have stepped back and looked around at the rest of the world and said "wait a minute, that's not fair"

I agree that farmers get the short end of the stick...not just because, as you said "they produce something from the ground"...no, it's more than that...yes they are working nature, but they feed the world and all things being considered...the man that makes the food we all need....should be the most important person in the world...

just my opinion

This thread is ignoring a few facts that must be considered in the bigger picture.

1) of the 330,000,000 people in the US, how many are children or elders?

2) people have learned how to tighten their belts and get by on less

3) many are working for themselves in their own communities rather than for a 'paycheck' from a formal 'employer'

4) parents of small children can no longer afford day care...so one of them stays home to do the child care (Which, in my opinion, is an improvement for society. People should be raising their own kids -- especially those people who do have a work ethic and an education. I see far too many 30something executves having kids -- their 'biological clocks' are approaching critical....but they selfishly want to have it all: great career, fancy house, new car every year, 2.5 kids.... only to 'farm them out' to a daycare provider)

5) in my case, I am by choice not 'employed' full time, but I work every single day, maintaining my home, taking care of all the chores (way more than 40 hours/week)...cleaning, cooking, laundry, banking/bill paying, mowing, raking, pruning, painting, inventory control, tax returns, taking care of daytime-only business like DMV, and making sure things run smoothly.

I left my last full-time job for a major hotel chain because of the corruption and unethical corporate policies. It made me sick, literally, to be associated with what I saw going on once I moved into lower management. I was miserable, astonished, disillusioned, and back-stabbed....and my husband said, "Quit. Quit the job. I can't stand what it's dong to you."

I have never, ever received government benefits. EVER. My husband was laid off and received 6 months of unemployment. After that, we used his savings, which were enough to get us through another several months. He now has a great job, excellent fit for him. We're both happy, and take care of the workload that is not compensated.

Perhaps the government doesn't know as much as they think they do about how people are managing without them, and without their knowledge.

The numbers presented in the OP are skewed, at least to some degree. I am aware that many people are taking advantage of benefits...but many are not. I gave up looking for a replacement job once we had readjusted to having one income...perhaps others have as well. I consider it to be 'helping' ... by leaving jobs available for those who have to have a job.

For me, it's an option, and our life is fine, all things considered. Modest house in a modest working-class neighborhood with a mortgage that is lower than renting, cars that are totally paid for, no new wardrobe every few months, no big vacations, rarely eat out, once or twice a year go to a matinee, neither of us are overweight or lazy. Both of us are educated. We just aren't "consumers" like many feel compelled to be.