Should I follow my heart?

Alright. I've been debating posting this for some time, but I figured why not, more advice can't hurt....

That said, there is a specific user who might come across this thread. Keep your mouth shut on facebook buddy, do me that 1 solid favor and keep this to yourself......

So I've been with my wife for 12 years. We've been married a almost 2, but it was an epic long engagement. We met in college through a friend and have been together since, we moved in together within the first few months of dating.

So things have been slipping for some time now. Both of us are to blame for that, things got stale. We're more like best friends with benefits than a married couple at this point. financial issues and other issues have added unneeded stress into the mix.

Now over the course of this relationship I lost most of my friends, they saw the person I was becoming and didn't like it, and by extension her. I've never been that close to my family. Haven't seen my father since my wedding, haven't talked to my mother other than 1 facebook comment since the wedding, and she only lives 45 minutes away.

Years back I used to do a lot of chatting on irc and out of boredom I've recently gone back. Now this caused issues early in the relationship as I was an OP(operator) in a movie channel and got flirty with one of the female ops who lived close.

So I went back and reconnected with some people mainly just hanging out in trivia goofing off.

This is where the story turns into me being a jerk, so ladies, you can stop here if you like.....

I met someone there. We started chatting. A lot. And texting. and skyping. We are constantly in touch, we are so similar, yet different, that the chemistry is amazing. I've never really felt the way I do about anyone else, and this woman feels the exact same way.

So then my wife finds a txt from her, pretty innocent, but immediately she tells me she considers me talking with other women (not necessarily flirting) to be cheating.

Now like I said, i don't have a lot of people in my life right now, so having someone so connected to me, then having that ripped away, really hurt. This woman is also about to fight cancer again, for the 3rd time. As you can imagine, this has me all confused and paranoid and worried.

But i can't stop thinking about her, she can't stop thinking about me. She lives in the US and I'm in Canada, about 15 hours away on the I95.

So here is the thing.. I still love my wife. I'm just no longer IN love with her. And it's pretty clear to me the she is feeling the same thing. I've been thinking it over and have come to the conclusion that both of us stayed together because that was the easier thing to do. It's hard to say goodbye after 12 years.

I certainly don't want to break her heart, but I can't pull myself in that many directions. While we are having a tear filled fight, on the verge of divorce, all I can think of is this other woman, and how I can't lose her.

So.........

Should I start on the long road of getting a TN visa so I can move down to the US, work, and be with the woman I'm in love with? Should I stay and try to work it out with my wife?

If anyone can offer advice as to how to start that process please feel free, I do have training in 2 different fields that would qualify under nafta, but you need a job offer already before you can obtain the visa.

This woman has already stated that I can come and stay with her, as long as I have a PLAN and am legally able to work, she can help get me on my feet. Should I go down for a few months, round up some offers, come home and try for the visa? I believe a Canadian can stay in the us for up to 6 months before they are required to go back to Canada, so that's an option.

I'll end this dribble with 2 questions for anyone who bothered to read this...

1) Do you consider talking to, and flirting with, a woman online to be "cheating" as you would actual sex?
2) would you give up your job, your home, your country, your LIFE, for love?

p.s. i know I'm a cold heartless jerk, so you can save those comments please.

It's called an emotional affair, and yes it is cheating. One big question, are there any children involved.

Des

reply to post by Destinyone


no children at all and no intentions of having them, only cats. And thanks for your input

If you don't go with your heart, then what can you go with? The brain sucks for making such decisions. Especially the left side of it. Trust me...I know.

Sammy says it better than I can though.

To love somebody naturally
To love somebody faithfully
To love somebody equally
Is not enough
Is not enough
Is not enough
To love somebody secretly
And never touch
To love somebody honestly
And always trust
To love somebody tenderly
The tender touch
Is not enough
Is not enough
Love hurts sometimes
It's not so easy to find, no
Searchin' everywhere
You turn and swear
It's always been there
To love somebody foolishly
Can happen once
To love somebody hopelessly
It hurts so much
To love somebody equally
Is not enough
Is not enough
Is not enough
Love takes a little time
It's not so easy to find, no
Searchin' everywhere
You turn and swear
She's always been there
Standin' there....oh
And if it don't come easily
One thing you must believe
You can always have trust in me
Because my heart will always be
Yours honestly
Love hurts sometimes
It's not so easy to find, no
Searchin' everywhere
Then turn and swear
It's always been there
Standin' there
Love hurts sometimes
Not yours, it's not mine, no
Love's only to share
Turn and swear
It's everywhere
Standin' there
'cause it's always been there

reply to post by webpirate


It's entirely cliche, but yeah, I "get" those songs now. Makes me wonder if I was ever in love before this.

Gah..... this is not a light load on my brain and heart let me tell you.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


yeah...I know exactly what you mean. Exactly.

And this song in particular can apply to all 3 parties involved. Or 4 depending on your circumstance.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by Destinyone

 

no children at all and no intentions of having them, only cats. And thanks for your input

Good, with no children to be effected by your decision, follow your heart.....

There is nothing worse than living in a loveless marriage. There will be pain on both parts of you and your wife, but it's not the dull daily pain of settling for something that is stagnant, and going nowhere.

I don't know the reasons you cut off contact with your family. I would suggest you try to reestablish those avenues of communication. That is, unless they are totally toxic to you.

Good Luck...

Des

reply to post by Destinyone

There is nothing worse than living in a loveless marriage. There will be pain on both parts of you and your wife, but it's not the dull daily pain of settling for something that is stagnant, and going nowhere.

Yeah I know and feel that deeply. It's not fair for her for me to be torn like this, either way someone will get hurt, but I think I'm going to follow my heart on this one and see where it leads me.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters

1) Do you consider talking to, and flirting with, a woman online to be "cheating" as you would actual sex?

2) would you give up your job, your home, your country, your LIFE, for love?

p.s. i know I'm a cold heartless jerk, so you can save those comments please.

You said yourself that your marriage was slipping before you even met this other person. Sounds like you're not cheating as much as you're filling a void. That void being the love that you USED to feel for your "friend with benefits". After loving someone for as long as you have, you can't just go and turn off that spigot. I don't think it's humanly possible. You'd be a cold blooded jerk if you did, and to be perfectly honest, why would the next woman want you if she see's that you're capable of doing something like that.

Look at it this way; your insincts are telling you that you need love in your life. Perfectly natural and understandable. You've been easing out of love with one woman ( nature's doing) while easing into love with another ( your doing). That's not cheating. That's acting on your natural instinct to love another human being. Cheating, to me, is just having casual sex for the sake of it while you're in an otherwise loving and fulfilling relationship, which, based by your own words, you're not in. I don't care what anyone says, we all want love and we all need it. I don't see anything wrong in what you're doing and based on the fact that you posted what you did, it shows that you're a compassionate man who doesn't really want to hurt the woman you spent 12 years of your life loving. I think that's an admirable trait man, I really do. And if this woman is as good as you say she is, she'll see that too and respect you on that level.

Now, you said that there's a chemistry between you two that is simply "amazing." If I were you I'd take off your rose colored shades for a little bit and look at everything I said in the first paragraph objectively. Look at the business end of it. She obviously is by telling you that you have to have a plan, a sense of responsibility and a job. Sounds like she's got her head screwed on in a very level way and that she's one step ahead of you by being logical about all this. Take a cue from that. Make SURE that what you're feeling is love and not just the feeling of security that comes from being with someone. Do you love this other woman just for the sake of it and reading some deep things into it to justify it all? Or have you looked at this "relationship" objectively every step of the way and see it for what it is? Love.

Another way of looking at that is to see if synchronicity keeps rearing it's head all the time while you're chatting or otherwise communicating. If things are happening between you two that you just can't explain, then I think you've got the real thing here. ( ly) And if that's the case, the answer to question # 2 would be a resounding YES. You can have the best job and all the money and security that comes with it that you want. If you're not happy, if you're not sharing it all with someone you love on a pretty deep level when you have the opportunity to.......what's the point?

If you've got cold feet about a big move like this, that's understandable too. If it's any consolation, I know a couple who just got married after being together for a couple of years and they met online as well. Chatting, Skype, the whole 9 yards. One of them made a cross country ( U.S.) move to be with the other, and by the looks of things, they're still getting on pretty well. It takes a leap of faith by both people to make something like this work, but you have to keep your head in the game at the same time.

Anyway, sorry for rambling on like that but that's my take on it. Just one more thing though....If you're connecting on a deep level and that is what opened the door for all this to happen, when you do get together, when you do walk through that door, turn the light on. Keep it light and easy in other words because there is a big difference between communicating those "deep" things with someone online and then finally hooking up with them face to face. Light and easy may be the way to go there. Business maybe?

i'd say you'll do more damage by trying to keep the act up than to go ahead and ditch each other!

too many people have fallen for this idea of life long partners so they feel guilty when it doesn't work...like they are giving up! i don't think there are very many couples meant to last forever. i think it's like pretty much every aspect of life: all good things must come to an end for us to learn from that good thing.

after every death is another birth! but, from personal opinion...i'd say jumping one ship for another will eventually find you in the same predicament you're in now...just hopefully you'll realize sooner than 12 years!

i wonder how many people have gone against that feeling that "it's coming to an end" yet fight it and stay together and it actually worked? cuz typically speaking...your instinct knows.

quit wasting your energy feeling bad for wanting to move on...and move on my friend.

that little voice in the back of your head telling you it's already over...has been there for years and will only get louder and louder until you listen!

My advice would be that if you think that you would actually leave your wife for someone else, then at least let her know (not all of it), but let her know that you think that the relationship is lacking, and you fear wandering.

She may in fact feel the same as you, or at least give her the courtesy to try to mend whatever it is you think has been lacking. There is a fair and balanced way to end a relationship with someone, and you never know if she has a thread like this somewhere on the internet as well.

Peace, NRE.

BTW, reading this

and you never know if she has a thread like this somewhere on the internet as well.

how did it make you feel, it may help figuring out what to do based on thinking this could be possible.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Just as a postscript........If she offered to let you live with her, take her up on it. People can get to know each other very well online to where that would be a natural move that both want.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
Should I start on the long road of getting a TN visa so I can move down to the US, work, and be with the woman I'm in love with? Should I stay and try to work it out with my wife?

Well it does seem you've already made your mind up and if you don't go, you'll end up regretting it and blaming your wife and things will never work with her... you'll see her as the reason you never went and tried with this other woman.

However

12 years is a long time and I don't think you should just give up.
It's hard to maintain the level of intimacy and stimulation (mental and otherwise) for that many years, and they always say... if you want to stop having sex, get married.

You say you're not in love with your wife but could you be again? Has she totally just changed and is no longer that person you fell for? Have you changed so much that you no loner feel she is the one?

Stale and "like friends" is very common.... and if you think it's over, then nobody knows better than you and your wife... but if you only want it to be over so that you can go have this new life with the other woman, then I'd be very careful.

Should I go down for a few months, round up some offers, come home and try for the visa? I believe a Canadian can stay in the us for up to 6 months before they are required to go back to Canada, so that's an option.

If you're going to do it, I'd say do this definitely.
To just absolutely uproot and move just on the off chance that something will happen and you'll get work, in THIS climate right now, would be crazy.

But yes... go, see what's it's like, whether there are jobs etc.

But don't see it as a trial run.... don't go for 6 months, stay with this woman, realise it's all much better in your head and then go crawling back to your wife... that would be really, really bad.

1) Do you consider talking to, and flirting with, a woman online to be "cheating" as you would actual sex?

In a word, yes.

Perhaps not as bad as sex (obviously) but it's a similar thing.
It's emotional cheating... it's deceiving your wife... do you tell her you talk to this woman and what you talk about?

Would you?

If no, then you know that it's as bad as physically cheating (or at least as dishonest)

2) would you give up your job, your home, your country, your LIFE, for love?

Yes... I absolutely would.

But in your situation, and with not only yourself to think about... it's much, much more difficult and a much bigger decision.

Don't let anyone else sway you or make your mind up okay?

It's your decision and you know deep down (heart/soul whatever) what the right thing to do is, whether it will work with your wife if you want it to, whether the other woman is really all you've been looking for, or whether you just need a change or a break.

It's all on you my friend.

Good luck.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple


Wow, that's a whole lot of advice from you guys, I really appreciate it. And for the record, nothing here is going to sway my opinion one way or another, I guess i just need some input and to talk it out a bit with people who don't know me.

Let me try to hit all the points you guys (and gals) made....

synchronicity? I can't even tell you, but let me try.....

Both of us had very similar childhoods, dealt with problems, screwed up families, the whole deal.
We've actually crossed paths before, several times, over the past 15 years online.
We both have similar art styles, and really enjoy drawing pictures for each other, she actually drew me a valentine.
Pretty much any subject that comes up, we can discuss, we might not agree 100% but there's enough mutual ground that we can enjoy just about anything.
She loves music, I play music, she loves my music.
We've actually had those instances where i'm trying to call her as she's trying to call me, randomly, or on msn or skype, like our minds are linked or something silly.

I can say this much for certain, this is indeed love. It's not infatuation, it's not desire or lust, and it's not merely the fact that i'm filling a void... I was filling that void just chatting and interacting with people, I was NOT looking for what I found.

This is one of those relationships that, even if the romance doesn't work out, we will still be friends, eventually.

I do feel horrible for how my wife will take this. We have talked about this, not fully of course, when she found the text. I took that as a last chance to maybe try to work things out, explained WHY I was talking to those people and all of that. didn't help at all. Actually, it just made it worse.

It's not like I enjoyed going around in secret, but as I said to her, it surely could have been worse. I could easily register at dating sites and find some local whore to fool around with. That wasn't what I was after at all. We both talked about how things are stale so it won't be a complete shock.. i won't just disappear either, I'll tell her the whole thing.

but, honestly, I don't think I'm strong enough to do that in person. I wouldn't be able to leave, I'd stay, be unhappy, waste HER time, and quite possibly break this other womans heart.. I have never been a "player" I have never cheated but for this. I do not feel great about it, I can't sleep, I haven't been eating well.

I've also discussed this with the other woman, asking her if she could trust me knowing I was still married when we fell in love. She's been down this road 1 other time, strangely enough it lasted almost 12 years, 8 year engagement, before he got caught cheating.

So yeah, you guys are right when you say it seems I've already made up my mind, I'm pretty sure I have, it's merely an implementation that needs to take place. I'd like to be prepped, have a job lined up and such before I go, but things are deteriorating at home so fast because I'm simply horrible at lying. I just don't know if I can actually WAIT out the time it takes to get those balls rolling.

I watched my parents failed marriage drag on for years before my mom finally left, I refuse to be in one of those marriages, we aren't there yet, we don't actually hate each other yet. and when we talked about this other woman, it was made clear, even if it ends, we still love each other.

I've never been a selfish guy, but I can't help but feel entirely selfish in this situation. I have a woman I've been with for 12 years, my best friend, who i will probably destroy with this, and I have this other woman, fighting cancer, completely in love with me, that I can't get to right now.

If I stay, my heart gets broken and so does hers, if I leave, my wife's heart gets broken BUT she might just find someone much better suited for her.

you know, after all this, I'm fairly sure getting married was a move of desperation on my part to try to save the relationship, and that doomed us, doomed us hard.

you only live once, and sometimes not very long, I think that should answer your question.
if you want to be happy, then go be happy.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Yeah, you sound like you know what you're doing. Both you and your new love in fact.

I'm happy for you. Sounds like you have something really special.

The initial break-up will be hard for both of you, there's no doubting that, but it sounds like it needs to be done whether you have someone else lined up or not. The fact that you do is just another case of synchronicity if you think about it

reply to post by phishyblankwaters

I'd like to be prepped, have a job lined up and such before I go...

I'll try to be as polite as I can. lol Sorry, but my heart ALWAYS goes out to the spouse being left. It's just the person I am.

You need to tell your wife ASAP. It is not right for you to basically be using her or keeping her in the dark while you get your new life set up. It sounds like you want to have your cake and eat it, too. Or at least leave the dinner on the table while you sneak off for the cake.

So don't wait or leave your wife thinking things are fine while you plan your new life. I would feel like such a dope and the pain would only be amplified to find out my husband was coming home to me every night, sharing our bed, making love, kissing me on the forehead every morning before leaving for work... only to find out it was all a cover while he was pining for another and scheming his departure. Don't do that to your wife- she doesn't sound like a bad lady.

Also, you say this new woman is true love. I have no choice but to believe you because you would know better. But if it's any help at all, remember those butterflies in the stomach and the newness of a relationship do morph into the comfort zone and friendship eventually. Your wife sounds great to me. Marriage SHOULD be 'friends with benefits' in a sense.

Anyways, that's my take on it. I'll leave it be. Best of luck and quick healing for your wife. I pray she finds someone and is at the same place you are.

A song to enjoy and ponder:

You said: "So here is the thing.. I still love my wife. I'm just no longer IN love with her."

It doesn't matter how passionately IN love you are with someone, after so many years you will not feel the same deep passion as you do early on in the relationship. So if you move in with the new woman, expect to not be IN love after so many years. Real love is so much more than being IN love.

I have spoken to so many couples who have divorced and re-married only to discover that the grass wasn't any greener on the other side. Just some things to take into consideration. Whatever you decide, I wish you well.

You also said: "I've never been a selfish guy, but I can't help but feel entirely selfish in this situation. I have a woman I've been with for 12 years, my best friend, who i will probably destroy with this,"

A woman who has stood by your side and shared her life with you for 12 years who is also your best friend. Hmmm, seems like you have something special right there. How do you expect her to be able to compete with something completely fresh and new and exciting? I can see where there would be temptation, but to just throw it all away on something that may not even work out the way you think it might? We all think that when we are first in love with someone it will last forever. It doesn't mean that it will. Your wife/best friend will be devestated. Can you really walk away from that?

As for leaving Canada for the USA, good luck finding a job right now. We have millions of unemployed citizens right now. It may not be as easy as you think. I don't know, for now I have to say I hope you stay with the woman who has been by your side all these years.

Something else to consider, since this new lady has had re-occuring cancer, what if she dies? What if you end up in another country unable to find work and alone? I don't mean to be the harbinger of doom but you should think about the possibilities.

Originally posted by Night Star

Something else to consider, since this new lady has had re-occuring cancer, what if she dies? What if you end up in another country unable to find work and alone? I don't mean to be the harbinger of doom but you should think about the possibilities.

Just to expand on this, Phish...
I have lived in Fla. for almost 6 yrs. When you need that doctor, it won't take you long to relize that it isn't done the same in the states as it is here. It can and will cripple someone financially if you don't have the resources.