Reality Hammer - Iran will have nukes

Originally posted by mad scientist

Originally posted by DeltaChaos

Remember when Clinton bombed the outskirts of(and somewhat in the city)Sarajevo? I'm thinking something like that. We dropped more ordnance on those artillery positions in a short thirty-three days than was dropped in the entire Vietnam war. And there's plenty where that came from. Since our weapons are basically Israel's weapons, there's no reason to think that wouldn't happen. It would only take a decision on the part of Israeli leadership.

I just had to correct this complete fallacy. During Vietnam the US dropped between 10-11 million short tons of bombs on Vietnam and ajacent boarder areas with Cambodia and Loas.
Now how can you possibly say that in 33 days more bombs were dropped near Sarajevo ?

You're right. I couldn't find the statistic on Sarajevo, but I knew I had read that it applied somewhere. Here is the a quote based on what Bob Dornan had to say in an address to the house. This is what I was referring to when I put that statistic out. Thank you for prompting me to re-educate myself.



So, regardless of which air campaign it occurred in, the fact remains that in a period of a little over month, we have pummeled region with more ordinance than in the Vietnam war.

The point was, that it can happen whenever someone like Israel or the United States wants it to.

I'm sorry but 6-7 million tons of bombs were dropped on Vietnam and surrounds over 10 years, anyone making the assertion that there wre more bmbs dropped anywhere else is just plain wrong.
To put it in perspective in WWII 2-3 million tons were dropped on Germany and Japan during the war.
I don't know where people get these facts from but they are plain wrong no matter where they are from.

• WW II....................2,150,000
  
• Korea.........................454,000
  
• Vietnam/SEA..........6,162,000
  
• Gulf War......................60,624
  
  www.globalsecurity.org...
  
  The link you provided seems to be just another politician talking bs to make a point. I have read the same type of assertion in books which claim to be non-fiction.
  
  
  [edit on 23-9-2004 by mad scientist]

MS, I'm not going to argue against someone who refuses to be wrong, and berates people while doing so.

If you want to take up the arguement, take it up with the actual bomber pilot who originally wrote it, and Representative Dornan, who presented it before Congress.

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
MS, I'm not going to argue against someone who refuses to be wrong, and berates people while doing so.

There's nothi9ng to argue, I'm right. . The numbers are there in black and white.

I believe what was intended was that the "rate" at which they were dropped in a short interval was much higher than at any time during Vietnam war. I know that some carpet bombing was done during Desert Storm, but I didn't think it was as heavy as that done during Vietnam but perhaps it was.

Anyway, this is a moot point. The point is that lots of conventional bombs can be dropped in short order. Nobody disputes that fact.

Originally posted by HizbAlHatred
I believe what was intended was that the "rate" at which they were dropped in a short interval was much higher than at any time during Vietnam war. I know that some carpet bombing was done during Desert Storm, but I didn't think it was as heavy as that done during Vietnam but perhaps it was.

Anyway, this is a moot point. The point is that lots of conventional bombs can be dropped in short order. Nobody disputes that fact.

No the whole statement is wrong no matter how you spin it.

Ttonnage per month


• WW II.......................47,777.78
  
• Korea........................12,270.27
  
• Vietnam/SEA.............44,014.29
  
• Gulf War....................40,416.00
  
  

www.globalsecurity.org...

Ok, MS, I am wrong.

This is a quote from your source, Global Security, which I should know better to trust than our own Congress.



I hope you feel better.

I have edited this post at the request of a mod I hold in high regard. At the time caused my infraction, namely, personal insult, the target had 5 warns on him for calling people idiots, morons, and the like.

Apparently, it takes more than 5 warnings to get what you deserve anymore, or maybe there were 3 warns for one form of infraction, and 2 for another, but I think the point is that if someone needs to be warned 5 times in a 2 day period, well, that's too much.

I felt obliged to call whatshisname a (sexual organ located in the lower abdominal area), and I still feel that obligation. Were it not for a respectful request from a fellow research colleague, the dick would have stayed.

Thank you.



[edit on 3-10-2004 by DeltaChaos]

that some time just before the reactor comes online there will be a series of mysterious explostion that level it, neither the US or Isreal will comment.

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
Yes, you are right, MS. But you're still a dick...

Hey, take it easy. I have seen many claims about how the US bombing of Iraq was the heaviest since WWII, this time I just had to put things right. Not your fault, like you said it was what this ignorant congreesman said.

Israel has ground and air forces that are among the most elite in the world. Just because we haven't seen them in action doesn't mean that they won't use them if they feel that a city of 11 million or so is legitimately threatened. Times have changed, and the enemies that continue to surround Israel are stronger than they used to be, but don't forget that Israel held them all off to victory after they were handed their land.

Ya but you probably forgot that Lebanese with small arms kicked Israel out of their country?

Originally posted by persian

Ya but you probably forgot that Lebanese with small arms kicked Israel out of their country?

Yeah, they effectively kicked the U.S. out, too. After the bombing of the Marine barracks, the CinC was quick to get the hell out of there. The Lebanese know how to meet thier ends.

Countdown has begun. Apparently, January is the month by which Iran's nukes will be a reality. Do the US and Israel have the target intelligence and plans for a strike? Will Iran fire WMDs at Israel if their nuke programs are touched, or at US troops in the Gulf? We are at a very interesting point of the game.

Again, let the Israelis deal with it. I don't see any Israelis in Iraq helping us, and if we invaded Iraq for anyone's safety and security, it was Israels. I'm tired of my tax dollars going to a country that never expects to reciprocate.

Originally posted by DeltaChaos
Again, let the Israelis deal with it. I don't see any Israelis in Iraq helping us, and if we invaded Iraq for anyone's safety and security, it was Israels. I'm tired of my tax dollars going to a country that never expects to reciprocate.

I don't think Israel has capability to deal with it. Israel is set up for the ultimate defense, not the ultimate offense. They will have to get concessions of Syria or Jordan as well as Iraqi government to strike Iran, and it's about a 2,000 mile round-trip strike against full Iranian defenses. You need stealth attack or cruise missiles to even have a chance at success. If Iranians have warning that attack is coming I guarantee the Uranium is either mobile or stored in an elevator that can sink down a few hundred feet. Then Israel has conducted a strike that did not get the cookie. That would not be a good situation.

I think we are now closer to nuclear warfare than in the 80s.

Hey all can we please keep this thread on topic without the Personal Attacks?

Trick

It's becoming more and more clear that air strikes alone will not stop the Iranians.

They have their own Uranium.

They have their own scientists and tech.

Their country hasn't been touched by outsiders since 1988 Iran-Iraq war ended.

They can't really be affected by sanctions at this point.

Diplomacy is not going to persuay them to stop.

Ground invasion or air assault on Tehran look like the only options at this point to prevent them from gaining nukes.

If they gain nukes that can hit Israel, Israel is pretty much done. Iran can support Hamas and the Palestinians pretty much all they want without worries about repurcussions. They can just keep attacking Israel through proxy.

I honestly believe that we should let them go ahead and build their nukes. Everyone here is conditioned to fear and believe that Iranian government is dangerous, is ready to attack Israel or U.S. or whatever and is going to mop their enemies with nukes if they get to produce a good amount of them. This is juts plain out false and completely misleading. Why is it that we werent after Iran in the mid 90's. I definetly feel Iran has the right to protect their statehood, and that means a nuclear deterance. I mean Iran was just minding its own business until Afghansitan fell. This obviously set of an alarm in their minds because hey what do you know a year later the country exactly on the other side of them falls as well. Now Iran is surrounded by 2 American held nations (Afghanistan and Iraq) and an american aly (Pakistan)with American forces sitting in the waters of their coast. Now they didn't decide to do anything out of the ordinary until someone else started messin with their # to put it in simple terms. I am going to provide an example using a man and his neighbors.

At one point a man gets into an arguement with his neighbor. One of them decides to pull out a gun and shoots at the other killing the man. Your other neighbors have just been watching in awe. He leaves the children and wifre without a father and husband. Man gets locked away and the families try to mend things. 20 years later The son of the father who died comes back to the block. He pokes his nose around and finds out something to get him locked away. Now he moves his friend in that and does the same for another neighbor. The rest of the neighbrs do what he says now for fear of being killed or locked away. Now the son of the murderer is surrounded with guns pointing at him. He saw this coming however and figures his demise was near anyway. Surprise he opens his jacket to reveal he is strapped with enough explosive to destroy the block including the people surrounding him. He goes on to say something like "I am not responsible for what my father did but there is nothing I can do now to convince you otherwise from destroying me. Therefore if I go out, I am taking you all out with me." The true perputrator of course was the family on the next block who has been instigating for the past 20 years to the family of the widower because he didnt like the way the other family behaved. Of course he doesnt care what happens to anyone because whatever happens his "enemy" so to say will be destroyed regardless thanks to his ignorant and intolerant beliefs. This is how I am viewing the current situation and although I am very tired and havnt bene able to explain in full detail or as understandable as possible, I am sure some people will figure out what I have said here.

My point, Iran has the right to mind their own business, and at the moment arming yourself with the only deterrant possible while being surrounded by enemies that hate you and want you gone for not much reasons except that they are told to is in all truth minding their own.

Besides I dont really think Japan would appreciate anyone attacking Iran anytime soon anyways.

And whats up with Armenia they are right in the middle of it all and I have not heard a damn word from them at all. What is their story anyways?

Israel expects to be attacked by all the nations of the earth and is why they have the ultimate defense - the Samson Option. Many Jewish books of the prophets foretell of all nations that will come against Israel in the day of the Lord.

According to the Jewish Book of Zechariah, a prophet around 520 B.C. during the reign of Darius Hystaspes:

"And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the people who fought against Jerusalem: Their flesh will dissolve while they stand on their feet, their eyes shall dissolve in their sockets, and their tongues shall dissolve in their mouths."
Zechariah 14:12

And this was written about 2500 years ago. So is Israel concerned about Iran? They have been dealing with the persians for thousands of years and will continue to until the day of the Lord.

Russia to forge ahead with Iran reactor pledge: Three more planned

Let's see... Russia is arming Islam... the US is fully ZioChristianized...

Is a line being drawn around Iran? The Cold War was fought via proxy in such places as Afghanistan, Vietnam, Korea. Would communists (Russia/China) care if this pending proxy war between the two claimants to Abraham's bloodline and the Jesus-crew destroys all of them?

Forced war versus Christians and Moslems... Wasn't that plan written down somewhere?



[edit on 7-1-2005 by smallpeeps]