Gay marriage is not a 'human right': European ruling torpedoes Coalition stance

reply to post by SteelToe




It seems to go over your head...

I will go more primitive for round two to assume I meet sun tzu standards...

Since you POLITELY asked good sir, and were not rude in anyway...


Breakdown all the functions into the most base components...

Then walk through those basic components...

then toss them in and let them swim... gaining experience as they go walking through each metric...


Note: they will all complain and whine during this process.. trying everything under the sun to not be doing it... (if you are training properly) this includes backstabbing, exctra... it is actually a sign you are doing a job...

this sums up the experience part...

US Navy,
Private Consultant,
Ten plus years retail,
two step children,
GFs ladder climbing,
Roommates ladder climbing,
friend cash increases from VA,
four business start ups (two sold)..


Failures- had many encounters with slim



first Marriage- 80 percent outside my control, 20% review
Legal advisors necessary

VA claim- four years and fighting... and still no progress

Three lost friendships- over a woman (different ones, never the same woman)

Ex-mother in law- set me up not once but twice...

Conned- out of- apartment (younger), 350 dollar money order, 60 dollars,

Threads demoted to BTS- not able to maintain sociological point that qualify threads for most ATS issues...
(mods I am being honest on my failures) not getting material across properly

Story writing- fan fiction- need more development time- not mary sue but could have used her
and better organization

Scorched earth- took down two assistant managers and store manager... (unfortunately caused a FEW waves)
after getting screwed on false complaints... took down another manager (she is still in jail)

Dead parent- never told my father what I thought- the truth.... it wasnt nice- never will be able to

suffice it say I have a much longer list.....and could go on forever...

Its easy to learn from your own mistakes...
Harder to learn from your victories
but the sign of a master is to learn from the mistakes of others-

A is not equal to A but it is similar...
Mistakes ~ experience


I apologize I do not have a resume handy...do you want more experience... how to do thing right or how to have fun really screwing things up... I got both

during this time period I have met a lot of people... The gay ones are the most tragic.... I have seen the full breath of humanity during these years...

gay metrics---
Want love
Want happiness
Ambition

Sting of failure
emotional scars



So who am I, and by extension , who are you, to deny someone to peruse their dream and aspiration. The world is full of so little happiness

What harm will this do?

please provide exact examples

Such as , they intend to tie me to a chair and make me watch
God told me it was wrong
they will steal all the batteries out of the remote and I wont be able to change the channel
They will teach my children about gays, forcing me to become involved in my childs education
I pay taxes so I dont have to, its what the teachers are paid for

I have nothing solid out of any arguments so far....

All I have heard is fear based answers...

it will ruin the meaning, nay destroy the sanctity of marriage...

Huffington Post- divorce rate 2009

In all, there were 19.1 weddings performed per 1,000 men and 17.6 per 1,000 women across the U.S. in 2009, while divorces became final for 9.2 of every 1,000 men and 9.7 of every 1,000 women.

By region, the South and West had the most marriages, with rates of roughly 19 per 1,000. But they also led in divorces, each at about 10 per 1,000.

I erased large parts of this response... in the hopes that I could be real, but not insult you..

Originally posted by SteelToe
You keep ignoring the fact that homosexuals can have a civil union with the same equal rights of married couples.

DENY IGNORANCE

Nothing equals LEGAL marriage rights - - except LEGAL marriage rights.

Originally posted by SteelToe

IMO some of the gay marriage advocates behave like disrespectful, spoiled children with a very disturbing sense of self entitlement and lack of self control.

Here's your mirror.

Human Equality.

In my opinion, marriage in and of itself - same sex, or opposite sex - is not a legal right. However, also in my opinion, that isn't the point.

I believe that the freedom to marry - to the extent that no government agency or law should restrict one from doing so - and legal equality in terms of equal protection - should undeniably and inalienably be rights, both moral and legal.

I respect everyone's views, but that is my opinion. Peace.

So... some nonentity 'judge' makes an arbitrary statement, thus it's gospel...?

Sounds distinctly like the 'logic' fundamentalist Muslims predicate most of their lunacy upon...

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by SteelToe

There is no violation of civil rights here. You keep ignoring the fact that homosexuals can have a civil union with the same equal rights of married couples.

I will say this again: if there are churches that will marry gays in the eyes of God, then they deserve to get a marriage license like anyone else. To tell them that they can't, is discriminating against them because of their sexual orientation. To allow atheists to get a marriage license, but not allow gays to get a marriage license, is discrimination against gays. You are violating civil rights when you discriminate against a specific group.

You can believe whatever you want
and in my opinion a family consists of a mother,father and children with other relatives if any except in case of death of parents.
Any other 'family' is a joke.
You are ignorant both about marriage and family.
But it's usual with modern thinkers.

reply to post by deepankarm


Good on your for telling those out there raised or being raised by anything other than a mother and a father unless one or both a dead, that their family is wrong. Way to make them feel super awesome about themselves to satisfy your sickness.

Edit: Actually, I'd bet money they would be more grounded and better people than those who say the things that you do.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by SteelToe
You keep ignoring the fact that homosexuals can have a civil union with the same equal rights of married couples.

DENY IGNORANCE

Nothing equals LEGAL marriage rights - - except LEGAL marriage rights.

Heterosexual marriage is recognized by every section of the society for thousands of years but homosexual marriage is not.

Marriage is a social institution not a legal one.
State should stop recognizing unions of any kind as marriage and give same legal rights to all, it will make everyone equal in the eyes of state.
It should leave the concept of marriage in the hand of society.
Again if any church wants to marry same sex couple, it will be free to do so but as anyone can differ with church's views, anyone is free to consider any union marriage or not.

Originally posted by deepankarm
Marriage is a social institution not a legal one.

Then why are there marriage laws and why do you have to apply to the government for a license?

Derp.

Originally posted by Garfee
reply to post by deepankarm

 

Good on your for telling those out there raised or being raised by anything other than a mother and a father unless one or both a dead. Way to make them feel super awesome about themselves to satisfy for sickness.

Edit: Actually, I'd bet money they would be more grounded and better people than those who say the things that you do.

edit on 22-3-2012 by Garfee because: (no reason given)

I will say it again.
The concept of family starts with mother and father.
I can assure you that you are free to delude yourself.

Originally posted by Garfee
reply to post by deepankarm

 

Good on your for telling those out there raised or being raised by anything other than a mother and a father unless one or both a dead. Way to make them feel super awesome about themselves to satisfy for sickness.

Edit: Actually, I'd bet money they would be more grounded and better people than those who say the things that you do.

edit on 22-3-2012 by Garfee because: (no reason given)

I will say it again.
The concept of family starts with mother and father.
I can assure you that you are free to delude yourself.

reply to post by deepankarm


And I can assure you that if you think a family should only be a mother and a father you are wrong.

Originally posted by deepankarm

and in my opinion a family consists of a mother,father and children with other relatives if any except in case of death of parents. Any other 'family' is a joke.

That's right - it's just your opinion. It doesn't reflect reality.

You are ignorant both about marriage and family.
But it's usual with modern thinkers.

Gays are capable of love. They are capable of commitment. They are capable of caring and nurturing. They are capable of having intelligence and dignity. Any child would be happy to be a part of that environment. If you deny that, then you are the ignorant one.

I was with my partner for 11 and half years. We had a great time together, and also helped raise his daughter. I am glad we did not get married because when he got divorced, damn did he get screwed financially.

The notion of getting married to me is an abomination of governments to God and the world. Just think of all the those whores of Babylon Marriages that women abuse in the knowledge that they will get a good deal out of it. So when they get bored, they just move on to their next hapless victim! Thats secular Marriage - and I have seen it in the Church as well!!

I also recognise the fact that Marriage in the Christian context is meant for life, and that in itself is honourable, and they should and hopefully do lead by that example in their faith.

But the fact that they are rejoicing over an EU ruling against Gay Marriage exposes the fact that they just hate Gay people. Why? If they feel so strongly about Christian Marriage, why are they not standing against secular Marriage, which as I said before, makes their idea of Marriage a REAL and far greater ABOMINATION!!!

I suggest Christians take the plank out of their eyes, before picking the splinters from others (which for some doesn't even exist yet!!!!)

If I wanted to celebrate my Love and commitment to someone, we will do it in our own way, have our own ceremony, and keep the "i'm bored I want a divorce, and all your money" clause out of the equation.

I suggest the Church divorces state control of their own Marital affairs, and keeps it within the sanctity of God and Church. Christian marriage has been riding the Beast for far too long!

reply to post by deepankarm


My parents split up when I was 3 years old, after that I was raised by my father. Since my mother left, I suppose my family must be a "joke" to you.

I moved in with my mother when I was 17, she had a boyfriend who had two sons. They were like family to me, and even after my mother split up with her boyfriend, I still think of his sons as my brothers. That must be a "joke" to you as well.

I find it sickening that you think this is amusing. Not all families work out as the "perfect" mother, father and 2.5 children unit. Someone has a run of bad luck and you think its funny?

Originally posted by deepankarm

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by SteelToe
You keep ignoring the fact that homosexuals can have a civil union with the same equal rights of married couples.

DENY IGNORANCE

Nothing equals LEGAL marriage rights - - except LEGAL marriage rights.

Heterosexual marriage is recognized by every section of the society for thousands of years but homosexual marriage is not.

Marriage is a social institution not a legal one.
State should stop recognizing unions of any kind as marriage and give same legal rights to all, it will make everyone equal in the eyes of state.
It should leave the concept of marriage in the hand of society.
Again if any church wants to marry same sex couple, it will be free to do so but as anyone can differ with church's views, anyone is free to consider any union marriage or not.

The logic behind this statement of yours is irrefutable.
The problem isn't the state giving or not giving supposed rights to a group, but that the state is even considered as a conduit for religious and social institutions and the governor of dispursing the requirements exemplified in them.

It is soooooooo simple.
Rather than infringing on religious institutions authority in these matters we just take the state out of the equation now that the country is secular in its mindset and allow religions their territory and the state needs to be doing the business of regulating commerce, not defining religion as right or wrong. So, civil unions for all defined by the state.
marriage for those that their religion defines as such.
If you are gay and want more, as to possibly want religion to bow to their supposed need to be seen as equals and demanding that religion succomb to the want of equal footing in the guise of subjective "rights" in or by dogmatic or empiracal means.....well, tough. I never wanted to be a member of the girl scouts but if I wanted to be, it's not my "right". I still buy the cookies though!
It's soooooooo simple.
Just remove the state from the contract in religious matters and the debate is over. I mean, what business does the state have with me wanting to be a girl scout? Should the state mandate that gays be scout leaders? Or should the institution decide?

This debate is about the definition.
The institution itself clearly defines the matter.
The gay marriage movement isn't so much about the desire for "rights" as it is for redefining something that offends their desire to be accepted as equals. A noble ideal for sure.
But this is why the debate will not stop with the civil rights of healthcare visitations and inheritance issues.
They want to change religious views and they want the state to be the cop that does it. THAT IS THE PROBLEM!

I am a libertarian.
Go live your life as you see fit. Find a community you fit into and can find happiness.
But me too!
Marriage is a religious institution and now that our new society does not share the ideals and values it once had, as ideals have shifted and changed, remove the name from state sanctioned unions made for commerce and redefine the new name into something like "civil unions", a concept that can be accepted by all people regardless of religious affiliation, or non affiliation.
Anything else is meant as an affront and attack and meant as a divisive issue to distract us and seperate us as a united people living in the same states and country.

reply to post by Glass


Hi Glass, I certainly don't think its funny, and I think I have a pretty good understand of what you are saying.

I was in a fortunate position to build a lot of bridges between my partners daughter, her mother and him, and thankfully all is well for them at present.

It is a disgrace how children almost always end up getting hurt when Marriage breaks down, because their parents are too busy arguing about money and each other, whilst their children often blame themselves - i've witnessed it first hand!!! She now spends most of her time with her mum, and now visits her Father at weekends, and that is because that is what she wants now, and we never stopped her from seeing her Mother, even when all she could do is say hateful things about her Father to her face on hideous verbal technicolor...

It is wonderful that you are part of a family now, and have a real sense of being a part of that. There are many children out there that still don't, be grateful for what you have, as you know very well what it is like to be without.

The institution of Marriage is still abhorrent in my mind, and your life that you have told me about should tell you that Marriage is not the always answer. Why? Because the way children are treated when a Marriage breaks up is unforgivable in this day and age. In the UK where I live children are not legally allowed to have a say about what they want until they are 13, that in itself is a wrong. My ex partners daughter knew what she wanted a lot earlier, and she got that from us whatever she needed when she needed it. Also her Mother was violently abusive towards my ex, and often beat him. She Married into a violent relationship after they split, and that is why she lived with us as seeing her mother being throttled at the top of the stairs was lets face it, not exactly good for her.

So laughing at your predicament, really doesn't cut it. Hell, I have only got to know you by your agressive response.

Originally posted by deepankarm

Gay marriage is not a 'human right': European ruling torpedoes Coalition stance

dailymail.co.uk

Same-sex marriages are not a human right, European judges have ruled.

Their decision shreds the claim by ministers that gay marriage is a universal human right and that same-sex couples have a right to marry because their mutual commitment is just as strong as that of husbands and wives.

The ruling was made by judges of the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg following a case involving a lesbian couple in a civil partnership who complained the French courts would not allow them to adopt a child as a couple.

(visit the link for the full news article)

This is funny. Any other time the members are trashing the EU and the United States following in the footsteps of anyone especially the Europeans...puleeze come on. All of a sudden we are apparently in lock step and up their butts? They decide something arbitrarily, make a mistake and suddenly it is pertinent?

Let's ask the gay community this question since it is they who would be most involved.
Let's ask the community at large if they think couples should be able to see each other in the hospital or be covered as spouses under insurance policies and a multitude of other questions that arise when you discriminate who can "marry."


When you really don't even know the question you have no right to chime in on what you think the answers are.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder
reply to post by deepankarm

 

And restricting gay marriage is not a 'government right'.

No, but the government give the authority to officiate a "marriage", so you loose.

reply to post by newcovenant


I have known many gay couples that have not been allowed to see their life long partner when they are dying, because of their partners family has not allowed them to be there (sometimes hateful Christians, like that's Loving and compassionate).

That IS a human right, shouldn't just have everything to do with Marriage.