HC's Ancient Aliens last episode "The Mystery of Puma Punku" DEVASTATED the show haters.

reply to post by Phage


I clicked on the link, it didn't flag for me. Perhaps you already flagged it and forgot?

Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by Unknown Soldier

 

It's possible, but where are the remains of those people and their civilization?

From what I know, there aren't any real evidences of that.

Yes that is true, however a hundred years ago the Gorilla was a myth as well. Now did the western world find gorilla bones before the gorilla was found? Or how about a race of beings almost identical to humans whom's remains have been found by excavation before and overlooked. Or assuming was to be fully human or some form other pre-homo sapiens. If we still yet to have found the missing link then the bones have to be somewhere yet to be found right? Perhaps the star child skull is key? Who knows

reply to post by TKDRL

The link was fixed.
But no, I hadn't flagged it previously.

reply to post by Unknown Soldier


gorilla was a myth to whome? I doubt they were a myth to people that live anywhere near them.

reply to post by Phage


Oh, my bad, didn't realize it was changed

reply to post by Unknown Soldier


Gorillas were given their scientific name in the 19th century, so they were not a myth at the beginning of the 20th century.

And as TKDRL said, the people living near them knew them for a long time, that's how we (Europeans) knew first about almost all of the less known animals, from those that lived in the area and knew the animals.

Riddle me this... How many people does it take to move and put upright a 20,000 pound monolith using nothing but wood, raw stones, rope and gravity?

1


Watch the video about 1/2 down the page, and this is a guy who didn't know how to do any of this and just experimented. Now think of a group of people spending 100s/1000s of years working stone and what they can accomplish.

Extreme Masonary

reply to post by Phage


Here'smy point of the question.

I don't believe any who ever looked up at the moon oir sun or looked at the planets through a telescope or stood on a mountain looking out at the horizon or saw their coast line disappear from the ship they were on could ever be so stupid as to believe the earth was flat. Even retarded people know better. I think this was a lie tptb put out and wanted people to believe. But no one did. I think it's assinine BS> Period.

I stand in the desert here in Apple Valley Ca. look out across the desert til I see the mountains. The earth is not flat. Even flat earthers have to admit to mountains. I think it's a another lie.

reply to post by randyvs

Telescopes haven't been around all that long but the Moon doesn't really look like a sphere, it looks like a disk and so does the Sun.

You're right about the horizon though, and it was probably seafaring cultures which first realized that the Earth isn't flat (the Chinese were sort of behind the curve on that though).

I don't know why (or if) the powers of the times encouraged people to believe the Earth was flat. And I don't know what it has to do with ancient Peru.

I watched the episode yesterday and to be honest i didn't find it too outstanding.

In your OP you say they devastated the show haters etc...and to be honest, although i am generally "buying" into the AA theory there was not much substance in this show.

It was basically continuous pointing out obvious things like "how smooth the surfaces are"..and how incredible "precise" the stones are, blah blah...and the rest was speculation....but not enough SUBSTANCE which would really "debunk" the haters or doubters.

The only halfway interesting thing was when they compared the cuts to the diamond/laser cuts under a microscope, but they didn't come to a conclusion there really.

In my opinion, if they really want to DEBUNK THE DEBUNKERS, it would need much more scientific research and putting up evidence...eg. by making tests and coming to conclusions...and (sorry!) holding a measuring tool against the stones and while at the same time talking about "alien ramps" or whatever other speculations wont cut it, in my opinion. The episode was rather weak, imho.

Originally posted by OwenGP185

Originally posted by 1AnunnakiBastard
I guess we can have a slight idea about power tools being used to build those megalithic structures in the Andes, if we take a look at the statues of the so called "Tula" warriors, who according to the local traditions were giant African-like stonemasons always seen in the company of Quetzalcoatl. They are usually depicted bearing something hanging in their waist, that looks A LOT like power tools in holsters.



Of course the naysayers will say that those objects are "fancy chisels", "stone hammers" or perhaps "ceremonial magic wands"...

Or a bag...

OP, you talk as though aliens walked around with every ancient civilisation in the world. Where they now, how many people are encountering them enough to create sculptures or megaliths for them? I guess the aliens must have stopped walking around Earth once humans started to paint more realistically. Every culture produces its art and representations with its own style, especially when those civilisations were not connected to the world. One day future humans might look at Japanese art of the last few decades and think they were aliens compared to Europeans or vice versa.

I just think sculptures are very subjective, I do illustrations that look nothing like a real human but it does not mean I have been hanging out with extra-terrestrials. How about find some of that technology if it was in so much abundance, where are all the unearthed laser guns amongst the pots and arrow heads?

Where those ancient aliens or SOME of those ancient aliens are now?? Go knock on the gates of Groom Lake or Dulce and ask the US military, I'm sure they can answer you better than me... Ask for a tourist ride in some of the dozens of DUMBS spread all across N. America, but I'm afraid it would be a one ticket ride.

Originally posted by Unknown Soldier
Yes that is true, however a hundred years ago the Gorilla was a myth as well. Now did the western world find gorilla bones before the gorilla was found? Or how about a race of beings almost identical to humans whom's remains have been found by excavation before and overlooked. Or assuming was to be fully human or some form other pre-homo sapiens. If we still yet to have found the missing link then the bones have to be somewhere yet to be found right? Perhaps the star child skull is key? Who knows

I agree to a point...maybe 100 years ago one could have argued that big foot may live in remote locations, but now we are basically everywhere with instant communications with just about every one of the 7 billion of us. There just isn't too many places left on earth for anything to hide or not be known. Kind of like Aliens...we still have nothing more than the same evidence of 6000 years ago.

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Riddle me this... How many people does it take to move and put upright a 20,000 pound monolith using nothing but wood, raw stones, rope and gravity?

1


Watch the video about 1/2 down the page, and this is a guy who didn't know how to do any of this and just experimented. Now think of a group of people spending 100s/1000s of years working stone and what they can accomplish.

Extreme Masonary

Also interesting on the subject in these threads

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by Unknown Soldier

 

Gorillas were given their scientific name in the 19th century, so they were not a myth at the beginning of the 20th century.

And as TKDRL said, the people living near them knew them for a long time, that's how we (Europeans) knew first about almost all of the less known animals, from those that lived in the area and knew the animals.

The mountain gorilla was "re-discovered” on October 17, 1902,
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally discovered 25,00 years ago By Romans

OK that is 90 years ago if you want to be approximate, not 100 years ago but close enough.

Just as we hear tales of people describing Bigfoot as the native Americans knew them. For all we know a tribe of Sasquatch built Puma Punku. And perhaps "what if" Sasquatch is native to this planet and we humans are not. How would we know.

Originally posted by sirjunlegun

Water, when it freezes, expands. So you fill the slots & holes with water, leave them overnight to freeze & expand and in the morning have a chunk of stone easily cleaved off.

Water contracts when it freezes, it expands when heated. Nothing I know of contracts when heated or expands when cooling.

So, now you have a new fact to add to your knowledge bank:

Have you never put a full plastic Coke bottle in the freezer?

Try it yourself (but don't use glass which may shatter under pressure). Fill a plastic container with standard tap water & seal the container with a lid (A plastic soda bottle is really good for this purpose). Take the sealed container and put it in the freezer. When frozen, note how the container bulges out everywhere due to the expansion of the water.

Water when being frozen (which begins at 0 degrees Celsius) firstly expands, until it reaches 4 degrees Celsius, and then it begins contracting again below that temperature.

Originally posted by thesearchfortruth
Good episode.

Don't underestimate the power of the human mind and body though, it isn't IMPOSSIBLE that they built these structures simply because it would have been hard.

I agree with Gortex, most of the theories discussed in AA are just so unlikely. And then they point to rock carving or something for evidence...

I don't see that anything HC Ancient Aliens series has so far theorised on, is remotely as far fetched as a single etheral god, existing in nothing, no planet, no systems, no Universe or Multiverse suddenly deciding to create everything...yet, millions of people consider that little barrel of BS to be gospel...literally!

The simplest answer is usually the correct one. It's simply impossible for a primitive, stone age culture to even have concieved of, much less produced the monuments we see in these programmes..period. The people had to either have been of a very high technological standard, other than is officially thought..or they didn't build them and 'somebody' else did.

Regardless of who did, the cultures attributed to them, didn't.

So a couple points I'm not sure if anyone hit on. These stones, not only very large/heavy and placed in an area of high altitude, but the stone they used was diorite. It is so hard it would require diamond tipped tools. The flat surfaces, even over large areas, didn't vary anymore that a couple hundredth of mm. I say it's safe to say there is no way they could make one of these very intricate stones.....let alone hundreds.

reply to post by Hr2burn


Except they are not so hard, that they require diamond tools.... Did you take high school science?

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by kdog1982

 

I'm no expert. I will defer to others who are archeologists (Byrd, etc.) and have knowledge about the work that has been done about the stones, their manufacture, and transport. From what they have said (in other threads on the subject) there is nothing remarkable about the stones. Nothing remarkable except for the demonstrated skill. Given time and skill, humans can do wonderful things. With tools which were made by human hands. With tools which were made from natural materials.

I don't agree with the notion that "primitive" people were incapable of producing such work.

edit on 3/17/2012 by Phage because: (no reason given)

In my youth, I worked for an aviation company as a fitter machinist. One of the things I heard about was that a German tool manufacturer produced what they thought was the tiniest manufactured drill bit and gave some to Rolls Royce Engines in the UK as engineering samples. Rolls Royce then returned the drill bits, drilled down the center and tapped with an internal thread (which they matched to a piece of threaded wire which screwed into the hole).

The dumbfounded Germans wanted to know how they did this and the Rolls Royce engineer said "you have some marvelous tools, but we have craftsmen".

Puma Punku is the most interesting ancient site on planet earth in my opinion. There are many, many more questions than answers. This episode of Ancient Aliens does an interesting job of presenting the site, and why it is so baffling. For the sake of the show's theme, they make some leaps of logic that tie in 'ancient aliens', but the fact is that you don't even really have to bring aliens in to the discussion to be astonished. It's every bit as interesting and mysterious without them.

The mainstream believes this site is simply part of the Tiwanaku civilization that thrived in the area around 500-600 B.C. and built all kinds of sites around the Lake Titicaca area. The Tiwanaku themselves were no slouches as can be seen at nearby amazing sites, but they did nothing similar to Puma Punku anywhere else in the area. Apparently nothing even comes close.

There are many reasons for speculation about someone else building Puma Punku. The level of precision and the highly complex geometries used is unique to this one site. The stones at Puma Punku also indicate that there was precise prefabrication of interlocking blocks, which cannot be found at any other Tiwanaku site. There is no history of work that shows the Tiwanaku leading up to this level of precision and geometric shaping (their learning curve over time or very similar work elsewhere), and there are no tools to be found anywhere. There no accounting for this level of precision stone cutting in the archaeological record, and even mainstream archaeologists admit they simply don't know how it was done, according to the Wikipedia page.

Occam's Razor is always a good way to go when there are no clear answers. This has led the mainstream to believe it must be part of the Tiwanaku civilization. I personally prefer to keep an open mind rather than consider our best guess to be the last word. For me "I don't know" is better than taking a leap of logic in any direction. Still, being humans, most of us require a best guess and that is sometimes all we get.

In my mind, sites like Puma Punku are the spice of life as a human on earth. They make me wonder at possibilities, and help me realize that while we humans are pretty damned smart, and our science is pretty damned good, there's still a lot we don't know about our own history on this planet, even with subjects that are only a couple thousand years old. Consider the fact that this planet is about 4.6 billion years old at our best guess and we have great difficulty even looking back a short 5000 years ago.