Pulling the PTSD card

reply to post by hmdphantom

Oh good the circus is in town.
Ladies and gentleman meet the only poster who can easily surpass the "Professional" with muslim supremacist anti American Hopliphobic logic.
But don't take my words as gospel.
I'm getting popcorn now.

Originally posted by hmdphantom

So , if someone serves and kills for Zionists , at least deserves to be treated the same way he treats the locals.

It is just fair. It is the same message all prophets brought to us . We are all created equally.

Pure Garbage.

This eye for an eye logic is childish mantra. Just come clean,without all the mumbo jumbo? They should kill this man,and should then kill just as many innocent victims,to appease your desires. Dont hide behind your handlers. Come clean.Dont bring in the "prophets",or bring in God,or many Gods. Just claim your hatred like a normal man. I still wouldn't respect ANYTHING you say,but the message would be clearer,then having to wade through the BS.

reply to post by Exsisto


Sarah Who?

by your comments you refer to, For your digestion... --clapping hands-- beautiful attempt at subject change but epic fail...

1) you only answered a select part then made it the baseline reason to not respond to any of it... its called a straw-man argument... I call it...

2) the fact is that you do not like what you heard.... then you tried to associate me with someone your liberal friends would associate as bad... straw-man argument

historical foreign policy....

I know its hard why dont you try to stop having liberalcoservatism thoughts...

You closet conservative shame on you.....

the whole point
1-we would not be there if they did not claim credit for it

as it STANDS, the Taliban attacked us ...


Go to what is called a library... pick up what is called a book... (try and find one on asymmetric warfare)... I know as a follower of liberalconservatism you can judge the quality of the contents of a book by the way the cover smells, but humor me....

if your beliefs are so correct, why has four years under the rule of your particular brand of liberalconservatism not suceeded.... or is it ok for people to be broke and homeless, while banks are donating billions to liberalconservatism candidates


(by the way, would you like to by Solyndra stock via the Rush Limbaugh foot in mouth institute)

see I can use strawman arguments as well...

I ask however for you to consider before you start comparing me with people to think for a minute.... If were not supposed to be over there, Why did Obama not immediately order the withdrawal of US troops on January 20, 2009?

Until such a time as I am presented with hard evidence that the Taliban/ Al Queda/ Afghanistan had no role in 9/11. They did it... which means that it is war... asymmetric warfare has consequences, dont use it if you cant stomach the side effects

Which ties us right back into the main thread...

A DFAS employee should have pulled from the game on account of injury. Coach put him back in...

Where I come from we dont blame the grown dog for crappin on the carpet when he was never taught not to when he was a puppy...

It is a Responsibility Metric point

It does not square with liberalconservatism rhetoric- they are allergic to the big R word....

The Responsibility here is simple...

The soldier is US Government Property... (ask any person who has served in the US military) those responsible for the Property

Medical
Command
Senior Enlisted

All irresponsible people....each was an inhouse preventative measure to stop these situations from occuring

They need to have their nose rubbed in their poop... and badly...


As for an education, come to Lancaster in dallas ,tx... you need gas money or bus fare?
we will wait outside pharmacy and Ill show you... its a real direct observation experience... we can talk to any of the vets you want to...

or if you want we can go talk to the vets sitting outside the clinics waiting for their appointments (should only be about an hour or two wait... the finest example of government sponsored healthcare)

which team you want to visit.. platinum? gold? silver?

a free edjumacation on PTSD for you my treat!


in closing, If Sarah Palin is stealing my material I will sue her...

She needs to get her own crap and quit partially quoting it half arsedly... send her some books on history it might do her some good....

PTSD is a mental illness and only an ignorant bigot would try and argue otherwise in any way shape or form...

(hows that for a strawman argument... Ive been practicing my liberalconservatism rhetoric )

reply to post by sonnny1


is there a way I can super star or flag your comment...

www.wcpo.com...

Military officials have said that Bales, after drinking on a southern Afghanistan base, crept away March 11 to two slumbering villages overnight, shooting his victims and setting many of them on fire. Nine of the 16 killed were children and 11 belonged to one family.

Court records and interviews in recent days have revealed that Bales had a string of commendations for good conduct after four tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. But he also faced a number of troubles in recent years: a Florida investment job went sour, his Seattle-area home was condemned as he struggled to make payments on another, and he failed to get a recent promotion.

Stressors.

Legal troubles included charges that he assaulted a girlfriend and, in a hit-and run accident, ran bleeding in military clothes into the woods, court records show. He told police he fell asleep at the wheel and paid a fine to get the charges dismissed, the records show.

This should be considered part of a pattern of increasing troubles with decision making.

reply to post by Aeons


they are also actions that make a soldier non deployable

and non retainable

reply to post by ripcontrol


Like I said in my earlier post, I know quite a number of veterans and am very familiar with the PTSD affliction. While I appreciate your offer of an "edumacation" tour of Lancaster, TX, I must decline and we'll have to keep our instructive discourse to ATS. However, you should note, I agree with your assessment of the chain of responsibility, and your feelings about PTSD.

You're still wrong about 9/11 and the Taliban. The reason we went into Afghanistan after 9/11 is because Al Qaeda was reportedly using the country as a base of operations, and a training ground for its terrorist operatives. However, the Taliban and Al Qaeda are not the same thing, and the Taliban were never accused of having anything to do with the attacks themselves, nor did they claim such.

And as for the rest of your response, I refuse your invitation to venture with you into a political discussion. I'm not going to change your opinions and assumptions with facts, so what's the point?

reply to post by Exsisto


so we agree on some points... I am actually glad it is some things that are more important... The PTSD point and the responsibility point

I know of the separation between them.... in fact I would suggest outlining this point... you make a good argument on it...

however, I will not give aid or comfort to those that conduct asymmetric against us troops... I stand by the original statements I have made


hopefully it is a mere matter matter of interpretation we disagree on...

__________________________________________________________
No you will not change my mind, but I will leave this single door open...


I give a promise I made to a friend, if I am ever in charge... I will find the truth... If it turns out that the USA was responsible, lets just say there will be no where those who actually did it can hide... no where on earth or space....

You will be able to smile a warm little smile in your heart of hearts...

If I am ever in charge, You will know it was me because of how they are found... they each will be found with the marine corps recruiters card from the small town near where I live, on them ... all over the world they will be found with that card... the recruiter will be given only one answer he is allowed to give... if you want to know what happened just sign these documents first...now raise your right hand...

I myself have suspicions due to building insurance matter. (the owner changing it after 25 years the day before) been laughed at for it which made me even more stubborn

but, it is not enough (its why I would have to be in charge mostly to change my mind... intelligence/ information)

________________________________________________________________________________________

Now for the Afghans side of the coin... They are a people with a very long and proud history....My god these people directly resisted the Russian Government, directly.. we helped them out just a little bit...

they threw out the British empire, via massacre... only one survivor of the whole British expedition

out of respect for these facts, and your own acknowledgement of at the very least training bases...

We show them nothing but strength... anything less is a fool's errand and total disrespect to the history we share with them....

We reach out to build a future with them, as we press the attack... the olive branch in one hand and a rifle in the other....We stop the attacks only after we De-tooth the beast... attack while you negotiate

________________________________________________________________________


Did they ever punish those who ran the bases?

Have they ordered the tribal leaders to stop attacking us troops?

They would not have to attack us to get us to leave... just come to the peace table and poof we would leave....


No, right now they are making there own issues and this is one of them...

The O-man would withdraw from an inherited war for the popularity points of ending the Afghan war phase in the war on terror (did I get that right)

either way sir I always appreciate an opinion that is different from mine... I am glad to see that we do agree on that fact that this man is suffering from a disease...

My question for you is this... lets say we put him in a psych ward, do you think he would ever be let out?

_________________________________________________________________________

another thing I want to add, is the fact that others here may want to consider... the brain trauma angle may be more significant then expected...

brain trauma- google

I have yet to hear that the soldier was given an MRI or cat scan before being redeployed.... let alone a single psych test or eeg


have any of you?

Even if it all went down like its being reported....everyone has a breaking point......everyone.

As far as PTSD goes......you don't have to be in war to get it......and some get it from both combat, and non-combat related stressors....like me.

Its is a disease none the less, and it effects everyone differently.

Honestly though I don't buy the official story...too much missing IMO to be taken for face value...at this point logically they are either back peddeling or looking for a cop out.

in 1978 military officers invited the Marxist party to form the Afghan government, under the leadership of Noor Mohammed Taraki, a university professor.The government began to bring in much-needed reforms, but with restraint and prudence. Labour unions were legalized, a minimum wage was established, a progressive income tax was introduced, men and women were given equal rights, and girls were encouraged to go to school. On September 1,1978, there was an abolition of all debts owed by farmers. A program was being developed for major land reform, and it was expected that all farm families (including landlords) would be given the equivalent of equal amounts of land.

Everywhere life seemed peaceful and there were few police and soldiers on the scene. This was a genuinely popular government and people looked forward to the future with great hope. Admittedly, the issue of women's rights and education for girls was controversial, and fundamentalist mullahs conducted campaigns against this. It was these people and their converts, along with landlords, who migrated to Pakistan, as refugees.

But there was a much more powerful opponent to the government -- that was the U.S., which objected to it because it was Marxist. The CIA, along with Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, almost immediately began to provide military aid and training to the Muslim extremists.

Afghan Marxists have claimed that one of their countrymen, Hafizullah Amin, while on visits to the U.S., had been "converted" by the CIA and became their agent in the Taraki government. He worked his way to the top, and, as defense minister, in September, 1979, carried out a coup, took over the government, and had Taraki killed. All his loyal supporters were killed, jailed, or exiled. He then proceeded to undermine and discredit the Marxist government. He enacted draconian laws against the Muslim clergy, to purposefully further alienate them. Progressive reforms were halted and thousands of people were jailed.

Meanwhile, the CIA's trained and armed mujahedeen came in by the thousands to attack parts of the country. In a matter of three months, Amin had essentially destroyed the Marxist government and had planned to surrender to the mujahedeen, and become the president of a fundamentalist Islamic state. But at the end of December, 1979, Amin was overthrown by the remnants of Taraki supporters, and, under the leadership of Babrak Karmal (who had been in exile in the U.S.S.R.), they invited the U.S.S.R. to send in a contingent of troops to help ward off the well-armed mujahedeen invaders,many being foreign mercenaries.

The advent of Soviet troops on Afghan soil tragically set the stage for the eventual destruction of the country. President Carter's national security advisor, Zbigniew Brzezinske, saw this as a golden opportunity to fire up the zeal of the most reactionary Muslim fanatics -- to have them declare a jihad on the atheist infidels who defiled Afghan soil -- and to not only expel them but to pursue them and "liberate" the Muslim-majority areas of the U.S.S.R. And for the next ten years, with an expenditure of about 40 billion dollars from the U.S. and Saudi Arabia, and with the recruitment of 30,000 non- Afghan Muslims into the jihad (including Osama bin Laden), this army of religious zealots laid waste to the land and people of Afghanistan.

Fast forward to 2001 when the US sent in troops and against laid waste to an already destroyed peoples, all thanks to US foreign policy. More than 10 Years later the US is still there, acting out in hatred of a people they destroyed long ago by supporting evil in their country in the first place. Now US soldiers are burning Quran. desecrating the dead bodies of people, and now going door to door killing innocent women and children, admittedly.

I am positive the Afghani people do not care to hear about PTSD and all the excuses that will be laid on the table for this act, if anyone has the right to claim PTSD it would be the Afghani's themselves. I am sure the good citizens of that country are sick with hearing excuses and US reasoning, they were once a happy people who were safe on their land and in their homes, who could dream of a positive future which was taken from them long ago by US foreign policy.

It is the Afghan people who have the right to say eye for an eye this time. This has to stop, and there is a time to say enough is enough. If PTSD is a reason to kill, Afghani's had that right long ago. The only reason Americans no longer enjoy the idea of eye for an eye is because they know it will be their eye that will be injured this time. There is only an eye for an eye if it wont be the American who is injured right?

Reply to post by forevertruepatriot

You're pulling the PTSD card.

As a civvie, I see too many vets use PTSD as a cop-out for their actions. They also love to shout down those who disagree with them and the wars they fight.

If you're going to remind me that you're "protecting" my freedom, I'd be glad to remind you that WWII was the last war where our freedom was truly at stake.

Today's soldiers are pawns for TPTB and their superiors, who have brainwashed them into blind compliance.

I'm not going to win many friends with that comment. Rest assured, my grandfather's service in WWII preserved my right to make such comments. I also have an estranged uncle that served in Vietnam and a cousin who served in the Persian Gulf conflict.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Originally posted by hmdphantom
My hate is always there for the ones who invade , occupy and kill.

Then you must really hate Islam.

Originally posted by EktoPlazm
When one of the insurgent "snaps" and massacres civilians, we demand blood. Yet, when one of our soldiers "snaps" and massacres civilians, we make excuses.

The insurgents don't 'snap' .... when they mass murder they do so of their own free will and with full understanding of what they are doing. They aren't killing because stress and situation have snapped their mind. They do so because they want to and because they plan to with full use of their intellect IN TACT. VERY different from PTSD.

reply to post by Jameela


Oh , I thought people in Afghanistan loved CIA and they were opening arms for american soldiers ? (sarcasm for warmongers)

reply to post by cavtrooper7

Oh good the circus is in town.

Then what are you doing out of the cage? Hmd is correct in his assertion and positions in regards to this thread. We are fighting this war for the benefits of corporations and Israel/Christians/Endtimers who want to see the Gog-Magog war.

reply to post by hmdphantom


Meaning of Equality in Islam: For people to exist in their proper place as defined by the Qu'ran.

We call this sort of thing "talking out of two sides of your mouth."

Peace of Thor Be Upon You today hmdphantom.

reply to post by The Sword


That you disagree with the current politics in the use of the military, doesn't make PTSD less real.

Trauma isn't tied to your politics views. You agree with a military action and therefore all injuries due to it are more real than they would be if you didn't.

Originally posted by IPEEINTHESHOWER
reply to post by Adyta

 

AND I QUOTE "PTSD is 100% the fault of the soldiers, nobody else." Are you serious? I guess by that logic the rape victim that gets PTSD its their fault as well. You sir should put that crack pipe down and read a book on PTSD. I hope God has mercy on your soul, that is if you even have one. A wise man once said " It is better to confess ignorance than provide it." I suggest you start confessing ASAP. Ponder over that.

Not even remotely the same. A woman being raped as she walks through the park is not the same as a soldier signing up for the military when it is COMMON KNOWLEDGE a LOT of people in the military come back from warzones with PTSD.

So if the woman was volunteering to be raped, and got raped, then yeah I guess it was her fault.

A more fitting comparison would be "If a man burned his hand when he touched a red hot stove, is that his fault?"

Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by sonnny1

 

This eye for an eye logic is childish mantra. Just come clean,without all the mumbo jumbo? They should kill this man,and should then kill just as many innocent victims,to appease your desires. Dont hide behind your handlers. Come clean.Dont bring in the "prophets",or bring in God,or many Gods. Just claim your hatred like a normal man. I still wouldn't respect ANYTHING you say,but the message would be clearer,then having to wade through the BS.

My hate is always there for the ones who invade , occupy and kill. Prophets brought message of equality while Zionists bring message of superiority.

Equality is childish to you . then religion is childish to you. Then what are the people you are supporting ? They call themselves as Jews. So , with your logic (jungle logic) it is always matter of force and conquer. I don't live with your logic.

So as much as I am following prophets , I reject Zionists.

No.....,some prophets bring hatred,spread hatred,and dictate hatred. Lets NOT sugarcoat it. I don't know WHO you profess to follow.Nor do I really care. Name ONE major religion that hasn't caused death,and misery ? You cant. Putting that aside,You still want an eye for an eye? You still want revenge? Vengeance? You are No better,then the ones you HATE. Period. Let it consume you. You have my sympathy. And BTW,You don't have to believe in a RELIGION to believe in a higher power.