I have had enough...

In the naivety of my youth I saw that the world was filled with inequality. It permeated almost every facet of my life. I was born into a $15k/year household, which is not very much to say the least. My parents divorced when I was very young and my mother's salary was barely enough to get us by. I saw the inequality, and thought, naively that It was by honest means that the wealthy got that way. I am older now and I see that honesty is something that isn't very popular in American business. In fact I see that the very system in which business is conducted is the cause.

I am a Socialist. I believe that, as a system, capitalism is Institutionalized wage slavery. In all the patriotic songs of my childhood no word is used more than freedom. But what is capitalistic freedom? If it is the freedom to make profits from the sweat of one's brow then it is simultaneously the freedom to steal profits from someone else's sweat.

The socialism that America hears of, such as that of the former USSR (State Capitalism) and Nazi Germany (capitalistic fascism) are NOT at all Socialism. Nor is any form of government which seeks to directly control it's citizens. The usual argument against Socialism is that It will turn us into one of those systems of control.

This is not intended to persuade anyone of the benefits of socialism over capitalism. It is just me venting. I see too many people who believe that socialism will lead them into fascism, or a welfare state of lazy non-production.

The ONLY thing Socialism Wants to do is give control of the means of production to the people who actually produce it. Shouldn't the people who make the things we all use, and greatly take for granted, be the ones who profit from it?

If you would like to be persuaded of the pros of Socialism and the cons of Capitalism I would recommend these books.

The Iron Heel by Jack London

And the Granddaddy of them all...
The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx

Most people don't realize that capitalism is what got us into this current financial mess. For capitalism to work, there need to be heavy regulations placed upon it, such as wage limits, otherwise it creates a huge imbalance between the rich and the poor in any nation. For example, a CEO should not make over 300 times what the average employee is payed. 10 times, fine, 300? No. Greed is the bane of humanity, for as long as we praise greed we will suffer from vast inequality.

The most profound part of the capitalist system we have going on in America is that TPTB have convinced many poor people that capitalism actually benefits them when, in fact, it only exploits them and puts them in debt.

What's wrong with higher taxes when the money that is given to the government actually benefits one's neighbor and self? I understand that our current gov't doesn't represent us whatsoever, but within a governing system that actually cares about its people, socialism/Marxism is ideal.

Good for you star and flagged, I agree with you and I really don't understand the amount of Americans who hate the idea.
I come from the UK and you could say we are socialist because we have Healthcare/welfare and it is a good thing in fact if you asked many people from the UK we would pay a couple of pence in the pound more tax to keep the NHS going.
Healthcare is a prime example or Obamacare as some people call it, to me living in any society should mean we look after people who are ill or down on there luck. It is the moral and intelligent thing to do. But I read so many posts which people are against it.
To me it seems many people in the USA just think of themselves and not of anyone else.
You are brave for going against the norm and I expect a few posts calling you a commie etc.

reply to post by boot2theface


ouch,with a little touch of communism..socialistic parties never prevail,nor extreme democrats either.

reply to post by boymonkey74

To me it seems many people in the USA just think of themselves and not of anyone else.

I know. There is no solidarity in any of the masses. It's really sad, and our media are just bought and paid for spokespeople for the corporations...

reply to post by boot2theface


You are making a mistake in your thinking due to the fact that
you do not understand how business works.
You have never seen that part of the coin, and you should. Given that I happen to know,
I will simply say that I too am a socialist, albeit I believe in meritocracy,
rather than believing in giving things away for the hell of everyone being equal, because they aren't.

Yes, most businesses are ran by sociopaths, this is a fact.
you have to be devoid of a conscience in order to make big bucks,
it's just the way it works. Am I like that? No, I still have some humanity left in me.
Besides, this sociopath trend is the reason western economies are failing.
A corporate constitution as a remedy comes to mind.

Careful with Marx and the whole left spectrum,
I have dipped myself in Marxism enough to realize
that the whole foundation of that jabbering schitzo is none existent.
This is a man who preached the elimination of the division of labor while at the same time
acknowledging that there can never be such a thing to begin with by giving examples of where
it can be found and how early, the family unit example comes to mind.

Marx preached the disintegration of the invisible hand of the market,
the natural self regulating element that balances supply and demand,
again, another impossibility. You can try by controlling it, via supply,
but you can never get rid of it. If you DO attempt to control it via state planning,
you will end up with either shortages or economic failure on the part of the supplier,
since the supply system looses money by producing a certain product, hence withers and dies.

And don't go thinking that you can run a society without money,
people need motivation to work, money is that motivation.

Marxism isn't political or economic, it is an opiate induced hallucination.
A fairy tale close to wishful thinking that disregards reality.
Stay the hell away from it.
I could discuss post-Marxism and cultural Marxism, another part of the left that people
need to stay the hell away from, but I'll leave that one for someone else to dissect.

If you want a good socio-economic system, make one yourself.
It's not easy, I still wonder about a few things, albeit I was able to polish certain aspects.
I'm at the point where empirical evidence would be needed via societal experimentation.

Originally posted by Radekus
reply to post by boot2theface

 

If you want a good socio-economic system, make one yourself.
It's not easy, I still wonder about a few things, albeit I was able to polish certain aspects.
I'm at the point where empirical evidence would be needed via societal experimentation.

edit on 12-3-2012 by Radekus because: (no reason given)

I was directed to this website by a member on another forum recently. Interesting you mention Meritocracy.

Haven't read through all of it yet, and I have come across a few things that say "dystopic" to me, however he has gone through a lot of trouble to put it together.

Short of some kind of global war/catastrophe I really don't see how any such major social/political/economical shift can occur ... which of course always makes me suspicious at the same time, as that kind of "galvanizing event" seems to be the perfect IN for some type of global tyrannical government we all are aware of as being a real possibility.

Check it out: www.numacalca.ro...

Im an anarchist, we my friend are quite similar

Second line

Interesting perspectives in here.

I too am not a huge fan of the current system. I can appreciate how it is "supposed" to work and I can see how lack of regulation has caused the problems we now face.

It isn't, as someone else said, all that clear or black and white. There are sooo many variables.

Some say "Greed is good"...now I "get" what they mean as it drives people to buy things and that in turn creates a demand and someone has to make a product to fill that demand...I get that...but unbridled greed at the "top" of the financial food chain is not good...and we can all see why.

I have came to the conclusion that the corporate sociopathic leaders (it's been proven true, most are psychotic at the least) are actually a socially acceptable form of "hoarding". If you hoard newspapers or cats and dogs...they come get you with a straight jacket and put you in a padded cell....well...load you up on medications at the very least anyway. If you hoard money or wealth...well that is apparently just fine...enviable by many...

But they are in many ways, the same kind of disorder...an addiction. The hoarder just cannot get enough of "________". The alcoholic or the drug addict can't get enough booze or drug of choice to satisfy that endless craving...and so is it for the person that hoards up wealth. They would deprive those that rely on them for a wage and a standard of living just to briefly feel like they have gained a little more. It is a sickness....it is like they have a great big hole that runs right through their middle and there isn't enough money or wealth or material substance that will ever fill that hole up.

If you are really interested in checking out successful forms of Socialism, I suggest you check out the Nordic examples. Sweden, Finland, Denmark and Norway. Norway got into some trouble a few years ago when they started playing the capitalist game...buying and selling currency and debt....you play with fire...sometimes you get burned. But the others are very successful and...most don't know this...they have the highest percentage of millionaires and billionaires per capita of anywhere in the world...yes, they even beat the USA. So the myth that you cannot be wealthy in a Socialist state is just propaganda to scare people away...the Nordic people are also happier and healthier than anyone else...go figure...

I guess am basically a Socialist Libertarian. I see a need for social nets and there are some things that are required for the basics of human life that should be provided...to me anyway. BUT...I want to be free to live as the constitution guarantees me...."life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". I don't want someone telling me what is good and bad...what is evil or what is holy...I expect...no demand to be able to make my own decisions and suffer the consequences or reap the rewards of those decisions....so...I suppose I have weird since of political philosophy...that's why I said I "guess" I am a socialist Libertarian...not sure how else to describe it.

reply to post by HIWATT


Careful with reading other people's writings, everyone has an agenda of some sorts.
Most revolutionary groups are funded by interest groups, Rockefeller and the lot come to mind.
If you see a movement growing too fast too soon out of mere obscurity, you can damn well be sure
that it is founded by someone somewhere who doesn't have your interests at heart.

When you read, analyze, ask yourself "does this make sense"?
The problem with most people is that they read crap other people
write and they think it's the holy truth.
Be a scholar, not a student. This goes for everyone on here.

When an idea is too complicated, there is someone benefiting somewhere.
Meritocracy from my view point:

Free education, because it's a good investment in the long run.
while studying necessities such as food, shelter, clothing, etc, are provided.


Free healthcare, because keeping people healthy is a good investment in the long run.


Mandatory defense military service/civil service,
because everyone needs to learn what teamwork and hard physical labor is about.
Also, free labor provides the opportunity to make things otherwise impossible due to
cost constraints.


Bureau of mandatory employment, because it makes sense that everyone who can work SHOULD work.


No welfare, no freebies, but also no usury and no debt.
You keep what you earn.


Oddly enough, this is exactly what modern national socialism preaches.

Just posting a video by one of my favorite journalists. It seems relevant at the moment

The War on Democracy by John Pilger



And I response to Radekus I cannot agree with a meritocracy. It sounds like intellectual elitism. Sorry

Just saw this video again today that refutes the claim that the financial gain offered by the capitalist system is the best motivator.



I do think the capitalist system has a lot of benefits but, it's time we recognize it's flaws and work to correct them.

reply to post by Radekus


Right. I do approach anything like that pretty critically.

I did say there were parts of it that were a bit disturbing to me. Dystopic is the term I used.

Nothing's perfect however, and it did seem some parts of his "proposal" were stated as evolutionary.

Although I do relish the idea of having some kind of revolutionary and beneficial change to our entire system, it invariably will arrive only after many many people have died... which is frustrating and sad.

The banking system I think most of us can agree on, is the root of most of the problems we experience.

I think every sane free thinker of this world has had enough.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
To me it seems many people in the USA just think of themselves and not of anyone else.

It isn't that. It's just something about freedoms and personal responsibility.

Many don't like the idea of being force to help others. That is inherently anti-freedom.

reply to post by boot2theface


I go a lot deeper than most people do with this OP. I don't just blame any one system I blame them all. Any system that uses a currency. I believe they're all evil and I fully embrace what the Bible says about the love of money. Money is that which enables the division of classes. With out money you lose so much evil in the world.
I'm not talking about a cashless society that employs numbers or credit cards or a mark of somekind. I'm talking about a Kingdom.. A Kingdom that I believe is soon to come. So even tho you're like me and a lot of us. As you say you've had enough. I would beg you not to do anything that would ruin your chances at being a part of that Kingdom. This world is not what was meant to be and it will not forever stand. Be patient, it's already beginning to change.

SnF for you

reply to post by randyvs


It's a great thought and like many free thinking sane people, I hope something does change...but TPTB are not just going to roll over ....they like they way things are.

Here's a vid....It's been around for awhile...most of you have probably watched it, but it's a nice thought as well.

Some folks have said it's communism....I disagree...but whatever....

"The Kingdom of heaven is within men"....

I take that to be that we have it within us to make a better world...if we collectively choose to do so...but...we apparently can't stop bickering over stupid shiz long enough to discuss it rationally...

Here's the Vid

reply to post by Damrod


Wow thanks for that vid it brought a tear to my eye
Also that is Charlie Chaplin right?
What an amazing voice.
Why isn't this video viral instead of that other one recently.

reply to post by boot2theface

The ONLY thing Socialism Wants to do

Whether it's Capitalism, Socialism, Communism, or Feudalism - any system is only as good as the people who are running it.

Human nature is pretty bipolar, hence the types of systems we currently have.
Don't look for many improvements, just more clever means of control.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by Damrod

 

Wow thanks for that vid it brought a tear to my eye

Also that is Charlie Chaplin right?
What an amazing voice.
Why isn't this video viral instead of that other one recently.

You're welcome. It does kinda stir the emotions up.

Yes it is Charlie Chapman.

Why hasn't it gone viral? Lack of exposure partly...

Partly because Charlie Chaplin was a self professed communist, but not like USSR or China's communism...but...it is a word attached to his name and you KNOW everyone is supposed to fear that word and socialism too...it's the American way to think.

Another reason is...and I'm sure it is some deeply rooted part of our primordial consciousness...that we feel the need to be superior (not all "we" but the species in general) to our neighbors. We must have better jobs, better houses, a prettier wife, a faster, more expensive car...on and on...this deep rooted animal need to compete. (and all this time I thought that is what sports was invented for...oh well). Honestly I think it goes back to sparse populations and the need to find and secure a mate....it was competition for the survival of your gene pool...but anyway.

It's just outside the capacity of some people to think of all people as equal...to share equally and to prosper equally. Perhaps one day that awakening will stir and enlightenment will find a way to show people that having "more" than the guy beside you is not real happiness...it is fleeting...you will feel more true happiness and fulfillment when you share what you have with the person beside you...but most people are too dumbed down, distracted and radically programed to ever become aware of that simple truth of our existence...

It makes me feel like this...



Allow me to leave you with a couple music videos that explain why it won't go viral and why no one listens to the beautiful truth contained behind the words...