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A Vision had by Charles Dickens

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posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 09:16 AM
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Keep in mind, this is coming from a fella who was pretty down on Catholics and had an almost Unitarian thought towards religion. It could have been just a dream. It could have been a vision of a dead relative. It could have been a visit by the Virgin Mary. It could have been a NDE. It could have been him going mad. Whatever it was .. it is interesting.

Charles Dickens Vision

This was the Dickens who in 1844 underwent a religious experience (rarely written about), which he described vividly in a letter to Forster. “Let me tell you,” he wrote from Venice, “of a curious dream I had, last Monday night; and of the fragments of reality I can collect; which helped to make it up … In an indistinct place, which was quite sublime in its indistinctness, I was visited by a Spirit. I could not make out the face, nor do I recollect that I desired to do so. It wore a blue drapery, as the Madonna might in a picture by Raphael; and bore no resemblance to any one I have known except in stature … It was so full of compassion and sorrow for me… that it cut me to the heart; and I said, sobbing, ‘Oh! give me some token that you have really visited me!… Answer me one… question!’ I said, in an agony of entreaty lest it should leave me. ‘What is the True religion?’ As it paused a moment without replying, I said – Good God in such an agony of haste, lest it should go away! – ’You think, as I do, that the Form of religion does not so greatly matter, if we try to do good? or,’ I said, observing that it still hesitated, and was moved with the greatest compassion for me, ‘perhaps the Roman Catholic is the best? perhaps it makes one think of God oftener, and believe in him more steadily?’

“‘For you,’ said the Spirit, full of such heavenly tenderness for me, that I felt as if my heart would break; ‘for you it is the best!’ Then I awoke, with the tears running down my face, and myself in exactly the condition of the dream. It was just dawn.”


Related -
Spirit Daily - From Charles Dickens to Those Who Return from Death; Alleged Insights into the Future




posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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So basically it's a " whatever floats your boat" message, that's pretty cool actually!
Peace and much Love



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by NoLoveInFear46and2
So basically it's a " whatever floats your boat" message, that's pretty cool actually!


Yep. I found that interesting ... the 'for you the best religion is _________' (and the vision told him the one that he dislikes the most). I don't know if this was a real 'vision' or not, but it was very interesting. I don't know why 'heaven' would not just say which one (if any) was the most truthful.

Truth is truth. Wrong is wrong. But this vision doesn't seem to be saying that ....



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 09:44 AM
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I have often said that this whole righteous "one religion is greater than another" line is just a crock.

There is more than one way to skin a cat...if it gets the job done, and progresses you sufficiently, more power to you.

There is no wrong religion, except for those that advocate violence. If abstinence is your form of worship, good for you. If promiscuity or delving into chemical substances teaches you about love and the nature of the world, then go for it (responsibly, of course.
)

The only absolute RIGHT religion, is love...and love can be found in many forms and expressions And I even hesitate to call it a religion, because of the meaning religion has been given.

I am not a supporter of organized religion...I am a supporter of loving the world, and knowing the true nature of our existence.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


FlyersFan,
This is an awesome find! Thank you for sharing this with us! He was an incredible writer. The vision he describes is beautiful...Almost as if the entity that felt for him so much could maybe have been his guide or some divine spirit, something along the sort. Trying to comfort him in his wonders. Maybe when it says 'For you..this is best' it means we have different variations of religions that lead to the same aspiration and meaning, and that is why the entity had no answer comprehensible for him because the entity already feels that one meaning, and we do not yet..still describing it with measly words. If that even makes sense.
Thank you FlyersFan for posting this very cool find!!



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 11:09 AM
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Now put all that together with his 'A Christmas Carol' and it gets interesting eh?
I'm wondering how much his spiritual ventures got translated into his writing.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 11:56 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Nice thread FF. I look forward to reading it when work is over. Star and flag for you my friend.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 01:26 PM
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VERY interesting!

It appears as though Catholicism was the best for him just because he didnt want it. I understand the lesson in that. Love what you hate to be at peace. Though, not just love it, but understand it. Live it. See from their eyes. Goes to show that the right one is the one that makes you feel closer to God.

Thanks!
edit on 1-3-2012 by theRhenn because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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The vision by Charles Dickens tickled my brain. I remembered reading something like that elsewhere. Then it popped into my head ... the near death experience book Embraced by the Light. Betty J. Eadie telling about a conversation she had 'after death' with God ...

From the book Embraced by the Light
By Betty J. Eadie Page 45


I wanted to know why there were so many churches in the world. Why didn't God give us only one church, one pure religion? The answer came to me with the purest of understanding. Each of us, I was told, is at a different level of spiritual development and understanding. Each person is therefore prepared for a different level of spiritual knowledge. All religions upon the earth are necessary because there are people who need what they teach. People in one religion may not have a complete understanding of the Lord's gospel and never will have while in that religion. But that religion is used as a stepping stone to further knowledge. each church fulfills spiritual needs that perhaps others cannot fill. No one church can fulfill everybody's needs at every level. As an individual raises his level of understanding about God and his own eternal progress, he might feel disconnected with the teachings of his present church and seek a different philosophy or religion to fill the void. When this occurs he has reached another level of understanding and will long for further truth and knowledge, and for another opportunity to grow. And at every step of the way, these new opportunities to learn will be given.


Honestly .. I find it hard to believe that God thinks it's okay to have religions that have errors and lies. But if Betty Eadie and Charles Dickens really did see what they said .. then that's exactly what is happening and I guess it explains why there are some religions on the planet that are so absurd and others that are so etherial centered and of the Divine.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 03:36 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


What I thought of first was "mother issues", of course, being ever critical I did a little search and lo and behold:


"I never afterwards forgot, I never shall forget, I never can forget, that my mother was warm for my being sent back." His mother's failure to request his return was no doubt a factor in his dissatisfied attitude towards women
source

Jackpot.

So why would that spirit say that Catholicism was best for him - implying that the best religion is dependant of a persons situation/history? Maybe it was best for him to get that warmth that he lacked, from "Mother Mary" instead.

Maybe it was his subconscience, telling him that for the psychological ease of it(less conflict in his mind)?

Or maybe it was a spirit and he was meant to become kinder to women (through the love from 'Mother Mary') so that in the future he would do the following:


In May 1846 Angela Burdett Coutts, heir to the Coutts banking fortune, approached Dickens about setting up a home for the redemption of fallen women. Coutts envisioned a home that would differ from existing institutions, which offered harsh and punishing regimes for these women, and instead provide an environment where they could learn to read and write and become proficient in domestic household chores so as to re-integrate them into society. After initially resisting, Dickens eventually founded the home, named "Urania Cottage", in the Lime Grove section of Shepherds Bush.
source

Interesting and faith inspiring are words that come to mind. Who was that spirit?! :p
edit on 1-3-2012 by InfoKartel because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Thanks FF for sharing this. It's very interesting to hear a story about Charles Dickens in this light, and the Betty Eadie conversation was a refreshing read. What she says is really simple and seems to ring true with me.

So maybe the best 'path' is to follow all the religions, then follow none, and then slowly build up to somewhere in between?



It is worth repeating that Dickens himself certainly wondered whether this was indeed “an actual Vision”: and if a vision, of whom else?


Even Dickens doubts. We shouldn't feel to hard on ourselves



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 05:55 PM
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reply to post by theRhenn
 


I guess that brings it home a little for me.

I was born on February 7th, same as Dickens. I'm also a big lover of writing and have been praised for my works (unpublished and none of them are in book form anyway) just as he has.

I also detest organised religion as he did and have been dating a Roman Catholic for almost a year and now to read that Dickens hated that religion yet was told that was the best religion for him.....

As you can imagine, I'm seriously starting to wonder about many a thing now.



posted on Mar, 1 2012 @ 11:08 PM
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There are questions. What does it mean to follow a religion? Are you following what the local priest says? The pope? Dalai Lama? Or are you loyal to only the texts? Which texts? Who's interpretation of them? Religions change. Some people have religious experiences that change their path and others. Some do not. What to do? Who to trust?

This story is interesting. Thanks for sharing.



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 02:37 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


You don't think any of that is accurate?



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by InfoKartel
reply to post by FlyersFan
 

You don't think any of that is accurate?


I didn't say that I thought it wasn't accurate. I said it was hard for me to believe. That's totally different. The construct I have had in my head all this time has been of a 'God' who is truth .. and why would Truth support something that isn't true and tell people to go and worship in an untruthful manner?

I'm trying to come to terms with what these two sources say ... that some religions are right for certain people while others are right for other people. I would think that there would be one real truth ...

Can you see where I"m having a bump in the road ??

If what these people say is true, then I have to decontruct what I have imagined God to be and rebuild. So I'm trying to put it all together. I didn't say they were wrong at all. I have no idea if they are right or not. I'm just trying to wrap my head around it.



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 09:45 AM
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Whatever is happening for you is for you. Each of us is unique and every snowflake is different, there is not the same thing anywhere and your experience is perfect for you. There are many religions and they are like different fingers pointing at the same moon.
There is nothing that you experience that isn't an invitation to wake up.
Great suffering is the most effective way to find God.
edit on 2-3-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by Itisnowagain
Great suffering is the most effective way to find God

"Tribulation is a gift from God" - St. Thomas More.
But honestly I have found the opposite to be true.
My greatest sufferings have made me resent God .. it hasn't brought me closer to Him at all.



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


If you were willing to die then God would be revealed.
The only reason why people don't know God is because they have an image of 'him'. Man build images, he imagines all sorts of things.
edit on 2-3-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 10:52 AM
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If you live in resistance to what is happening, that is suffering, it is painful. When enough suffering is had something breaks, you break. You give up. It is amazing what happens next.

When 'you' break it is like an egg breaking and inside, behind, beyond 'you', is God.
The 'you' that you think you are is just a shell between the outside and the inside. When the shell is peeled off there is no longer an in and out.
It is all one, it is all the one true God.


edit on 2-3-2012 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 2 2012 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 



and why would Truth support something that isn't true and tell people to go and worship in an untruthful manner?


Why is it not true? For Charles Dickens it most certainly turned out to be true. Remember that the core of every and all these religions is kindness. But through life people become ...jaded and they lose this kindness.


I'm trying to come to terms with what these two sources say ... that some religions are right for certain people while others are right for other people. I would think that there would be one real truth


And that one real truth is simple. It goes for all religions. However, certain religions, for instance - Catholicism, I think are fitting for people who have had a hard or no relationship with their mother. The protestants then have Father God as a more prominent figure, so that might have something to do with a hard or no relationship with a father figure.


Can you see where I"m having a bump in the road ??


Yes, I've cracked my skull on the same spot a couple of times if you know what I mean.


If what these people say is true, then I have to decontruct what I have imagined God to be and rebuild.


And like with that Charles fellow, you need to look into your own mind/heart/faith(take your pick) for the answer. Maybe you don't need to deconstruct anything, maybe you just need to move a couple of paces to get a fresh perspective on the construction that is your religion.



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