If You're On Food Stamps, You Should Lose Voting Privileges?

Originally posted by Pigraphia
My grandmother said there are 3 things and you should have 2 of them or be able to check them off to vote.

1) A job of any sort
2) Own Real Property(land, house etc...)
3) Active in your community IE charity, or going to every town hall etc...

I told her that she doesn't qualify to vote under her own list and she said she was fine with that as long as it forced others to check off at least 2 of the above list.

Number 2 I can kind of understand, in California and LA there are measures all the time to increase property taxes and allocate the funds this way or that.
I don't think it's right that someone who rents or leases their house can vote to raise the taxes on other people.
If someone put a measure forth to tax just renters there would be an uproar, but it's okay to tax just home owners?
That's not right.

I can also see number 3, if you are active in your community you will want to improve it and won't vote for stupid measures that actually harm the community.
Too many people don't actually read what they vote for.
I honestly think cities should be broken up into smaller voting units so everyone can go to town halls and learn about what is happening in their community.
Too many people just hope someone else will fix the problem, or vote randomly or down party lines without knowing the issues.

Number 1 is hard because this is a tough economy, and if you don't have number 1 you will never have number 2.
Still something needs to change because too many people are voting and not knowing what they vote for.

In LA they were stealing money through an illegal tax on cell phones.
So they had to vote on it, they wrote the info on it saying that if you vote no we will have to refund all the money stolen and that will bankrupt the school system.
If people actually read the ballot the money wasn't going to the schools in the first place that was a lie to get people to vote yes so the city could keep their stolen money.
The measure passed and we have a new tax in LA.
Too many people were fear mongered into voting one way.

We need to educate ourselves before each election.
I personally abstain from voting on certain things if I could not find enough info one way or another.
That is the responsible thing to do, not voting randomly.

#1 is garbage. Nowhere in the constitution does it say to be a citizen, and have the full rights of a citizen, one must carry a job.

#2 is garbage. Over half of america's population rents. Not to mention that the idea that it is necessary to own property is the reason that we are in this financial mess in the first place.

#3 is garbage. If I choose to sit in a basement and play video games all day, why does that make my opinion count less to this country.

Im sorry, but your grandmother obviously didnt understand what this country is really about.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


I never said her arguments were constitutional they were her opinion.

And actually historical, at one time owning property was required to vote.
It's not garbage, how can someone who doesn't pay property taxes get to vote and say what those who do have to pay?
Got us in this mess? No buying homes people couldn't afford got us into this mess.
No one forced them to buy the homes, though the banks were pressured into lending to sup prime consumers.

As for whether your opinions are valid or not, if you stay stuck in your basement you actually don't have a vested interest in your community you are basically a hermit.
Her argument for that was if all your opinions are academic and not based on actually being part of the community you don't have the full picture.
Basement bloggers who whine about everything but don't actually live, don't know what they are talking about.

As far as a job, how can those who don't actually pay taxes tell those that do what the taxes are spent on?

Honestly I don't think my grandmothers ideas are 100% sound, but your objections to them make me look back and them even more.

Originally posted by Pigraphia
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I never said her arguments were constitutional they were her opinion.

And actually historical, at one time owning property was required to vote.
It's not garbage, how can someone who doesn't pay property taxes get to vote and say what those who do have to pay?
Got us in this mess? No buying homes people couldn't afford got us into this mess.
No one forced them to buy the homes, though the banks were pressured into lending to sup prime consumers.

As for whether your opinions are valid or not, if you stay stuck in your basement you actually don't have a vested interest in your community you are basically a hermit.
Her argument for that was if all your opinions are academic and not based on actually being part of the community you don't have the full picture.
Basement bloggers who whine about everything but don't actually live, don't know what they are talking about.

As far as a job, how can those who don't actually pay taxes tell those that do what the taxes are spent on?

Honestly I don't think my grandmothers ideas are 100% sound, but your objections to them make me look back and them even more.

And at one time women and slaves werent allowed to vote. Its called evolving as a country.

Owning property has NOTHING to do with paying taxes.

And, again, there is nothing that says I have to have a vested interest in this country to have the benefits of citizenship. But Ill go further than that. If i sit in my basement and study politics all day, every day, you can bet I am more informed than most of your 'vested' members of society. Participation does not have anything to do with knowledge, and leaving ones house is not the only way one can participate.

Your grandma wanted this to be something OTHER than the USA.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

And at one time women and slaves werent allowed to vote. Its called evolving as a country.

Considering the state of our country I would consider it more devolving.
Not referring to any particular group voting or not here, just the country in general.
We are going down the drain not growing.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Owning property has NOTHING to do with paying taxes.

You're right it has nothing to do with paying taxes, in fact people who don't own property don't pay property taxes yet they get to vote and control those that do.
You've ignored this point several times.
Back to taxes, there are countless people who take more from the system then they give back in taxes.
So how is that right that someone who doesn't pay taxes gets to vote on measures that alter taxes or how they are spent.
They certainly won't vote to remove their entitlements that's for sure.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
And, again, there is nothing that says I have to have a vested interest in this country to have the benefits of citizenship. But Ill go further than that. If i sit in my basement and study politics all day, every day, you can bet I am more informed than most of your 'vested' members of society. Participation does not have anything to do with knowledge, and leaving ones house is not the only way one can participate.

Yeah because the majority of basement dwellers spend all day studying politics.
You may very well think you are more informed, but you are probably the exception.
Again I raise the argument that if you aren't actually out there living your "information" is abstract seen through the bubble lens of your computer monitor or books.
I'm not just talking about the "well informed" basement dwellers, I'm talking about the people out there who are ignorant of what they are actually voting for.
Even people out there living aren't learning enough about what they vote for.
You can't tell me the following woman is informed?



It's interesting that you ignored my comments about people voting down party lines.
There are too many people out there who don't know squat about the country, from those out there living and active to those who isolate themselves.

At the very least I would like an IQ test before voting.
It will never happen because that is too "mean, evil, extreme"
Is voting a "right" yes, but it is also a privilege and too many people just piss on it and vote for their own benefit and not the country as a whole.

I abstain from votes that I can't find enough info on, such as some of the judiciary and some obscure public offices.
Why, because I take voting seriously and won't vote down party lines or randomly.
Too bad more people don't do that.

I think it should be interesting to note, since I was told earlier in the thread that welfare does not make up a big % of the budget. I'll let the facts speak for themselves

Federal Government Expenditures for year 2011

Welfare - $472.9 Billion
Defense - $878.5 Billion
Health Care - $858.2 Billion
Education - $113.7 Billion
Pensions - $775.6 Billion
Total Spending - $3.6 Trillion
Deficit - $1.3 Trillion



Link for data - www.usgovernmentspending.com...

reply to post by andersensrm


Just estimating based on the first digit that looks like 1/7th of the budget I could do the math and be more specific.

To many anything over 10% is significant, but that's just me.

I'd been feeling endlessly guilty about a previous post where I unloaded alot of poison on my fellow strugglers. This post is off topic but not a thread derailer, cuz I just want to say that I have sensory intolerences so severe, they are literally,...well, disabling. Makes life in apartments, a living hell sometimes. Thats all! Carry on!

Originally posted by andersensrm
I think it should be interesting to note, since I was told earlier in the thread that welfare does not make up a big % of the budget. I'll let the facts speak for themselves

Federal Government Expenditures for year 2011

Welfare - $472.9 Billion
Defense - $878.5 Billion
Health Care - $858.2 Billion
Education - $113.7 Billion
Pensions - $775.6 Billion
Total Spending - $3.6 Trillion
Deficit - $1.3 Trillion

Link for data - www.usgovernmentspending.com...

Yes...but under our current economic system, it does not matter how much "money" we spend on anything because the "money" is imaginary. Only 3% of the "money" in circulation is even PRINTED. Likewise, the amount of debt or deficit we have is also completely irrelevant since "money" = debt.

In the current Federal Reserve / Fractional Reserve system that we have "money" is CREATED only when the government issues a bond to the PRIVATELY HELD CORPORATION known as The "Federal" Reserve. A BOND IS SIMPLY A UNIT OF DEBT...NOTHING MORE.

Therefore...if the US was TRULY "DEBT FREE" there would be utter chaos in the streets because the "dollar" would simply cease to exist. I don't mean that we would run out of money or not have enough money....I mean that we would have to go back to a barter economy because there would be no such thing as "dollars".

Hence the scam. Under our current paradigm...the ONLY way to grow the economy and the supply of money is to increase Federal debt and deficits. It's ridiculous.

I'm all for balanced budgets and whatnot....IF AND ONLY IF we are going back to denominating currency in some type of material good such as gold, silver, precious metals in general, a basket of commodities, etc.

If we are not...then it really doesn't matter. Since money is digital and arbitrary we have an endless supply of it. If we need another $ 1 Trillion dollars or so...it's as easy as opening up excel and typing in 1,000,000,000,000.00 so long as you have the "magical spreadsheet" down at the Federal Reserve.

reply to post by illuminatislave


Yes, because saying idiots shouldn't vote = killing tends of millions of people.

What a laughable bunch if ignorant silliness indeed.

So is the OP saying that the mentally disabled should also be able to vote?

Or anyone under the age of 18 should be able too as well.

Guess what.

There are plenty of mentally disabled and 13 year olds that are much smarter than those who are on food stamps.

reply to post by balon0


The OP isn't speaking to an intelligence issue with those voting.

They are saying that people on welfare/food stamps are not adding to the tax pool and should lose their right to vote based on that.

Personally I think the voting process at least in terms of taxes is completely #ed up.

How is it right for someone renting, or paying nothing for their housing to vote to increase the property taxes on those that own property?
If someone came up with a renters tax and it somehow passed there would be riots in the streets.
Yet it is fine for those that don't pay the tax and may never pay it to force others to pay it?

It's not just property tax, in California there was recently a measure to add a new cigarette tax.
The ads even said "and remember if you don't smoke you wouldn't pay the tax".
How is that right?

I don't think we should pay direct tax in the first place only consumption tax, that aside I don't think the issue of new taxes should be decided by the popular vote.
Forcing someone to pay a tax that you won't pay is the same as holding them up at gun point.

As for voting in general I do wish there was some way to limit voting by forcing people to learn about the issues before they vote.

In the last primary while waiting for my turn to vote someone came in and couldn't tell which booth to go into.
When asked the name of their party they said they didn't know and admitted they couldn't read well and memorized how to vote from what their friend told them.
They then said that they know the Elephant is the picture for their party and asked where the picture of the Elephant was so they could vote.

How is that a good thing?
This person doesn't even know what they were voting for they were told how to vote by someone else.

The entire system is falling apart.

reply to post by balon0


I heard the mentally disabled wrote the story he's citing.

lose voting privileges, test people for not just drugs but cigarettes, the states are broke, who is going to pay for this testing??? if there is a false posititve, they will sue, but there will be a big delay in getting their food stamps and assistance.

who will pay for the workers to do these regular checks on the children??? who said they are the lowest of the low....I hope you never have to eat your words......but if you do, I hope you are turned down and it goes to someone more deserving....after all...you don't want to be one of those low lifers do you...

Originally posted by JBA2848
Just add if you have a government job or have a government contract you should not have voting privilages due to the fact it will make you vote in order to gain more contracts or higher pay.

edit on 29-2-2012 by JBA2848 because: (no reason given)

Bull ! I am sure every taxdollar spent by Haliburton was accounted for and within reason .