1.21 Gigawatts!? National Ignition Facility Announces: LIFE Fusion Within 6 to 18 Months!

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by nobodysavedme

 

From what I understand, taget devris is negligible, given that the D-T reactants are consumed in the ignition and fusion reaction.with minimal impact from the "container."

Time willl tell.

I hate to use the word "impossible" in any situation, as it is often just a reflection of self-imposed limits rather than true physical/mental/social impossibility.

jw

you do realize that some fraction of the very high energy lasers beams will hit the target VAPORISE IT AND .....AND then CONTINUE to the OTHER side of the chamber and damage it and or vaporize bits from it or do you think the beams are going to magically STOP at the pellet?

you can use 18 torches to understand this.

i mean this with 18 lasers all aimed at a tiny little pellet.

also how you going to get any USEFUL energy out of it.

the pellet must be naked.

seriously this is anther retarded idea.

So what are the odds they figure it out in December of 2012? I hate to go a different route on this one but......

Originally posted by jdub297
s? Do you really want this country governed by "the Dreams of [His] Father?)

As for the NIF, it is the fruit of the foresight and determination of several administrations before Obama ever took ANY elected office.

The National Ignition Facility is 99% about nuclear weapons and 1% about energy generation---the PR cover.

His paltry $481 million in NIF/LIFE appropriations doesn't even begin to cover the utter waste of Billions on crony payoffs that serve no purpose other than preservation of his administration and the achievement of his and his father's agenda.

The big difference you and others overlook about the Solyndra, A123, Obamacare and other abominations is that there will be a huge return on the investment from the NIF!

Really? When? It's much much further from commercialization than batteries or solar, and it's about preserving nuclear weaponry.

reply to post by mbkennel

The National Ignition Facility is 99% about nuclear weapons and 1% about energy generation---the PR cover.

Without credible cites and sources, that statement is nothing more than your misguided opinion.

It's much much further from commercialization than batteries or solar

Name a solar facility that is producing commercial electrical power.
How much profit is Solyndra generating, even after we wasted almost $600 million?
How many Fisker Electrics are there on the road today?
Just look at the "bottom line" for such battery "giants" as EnerDel (HEV) and A123. Tell me how "commercial" they are without taxpayers propping them up.

and it's about preserving nuclear weaponry.

Repeating BS does not render it any less BS than it was the 1st time around.

jw

Spaceships?

reply to post by nobodysavedme


I'm sorry, but do some research before you post so you do not come off like a complete moron. They have already done this, they did not vaporize the building. They simply have yet to reach a net gain of energy, they are close to achieving it. If the idea sounds dumb look inward for the reason.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by nobodysavedme

 

I'm sorry, but do some research before you post so you do not come off like a complete moron. They have already done this, they did not vaporize the building. They simply have yet to reach a net gain of energy, they are close to achieving it. If the idea sounds dumb look inward for the reason.

you are wrong again.

i did my research.


they can only vaporise one pellet a day.

you got that?


and guess what?

they have to change the very expensive ultra pure glass optics for the lasers every time.


they idea is way beyond stupid.

This is very NEW stuff and in my view Incredibly dangerous to mess with.

There claimed peak power of (1,000 times more than the United States uses at any instant in time) is more than enough to make you wonder why they have this thing near homes,schools,hospitals, and so on...
What will be the outcome when they finally do place a Hydrogen2/Deuterium pellet in this stream of energy; this massive..........zzzzzZZZB00000Mmmmm!
Naw, but other than that this is facinating technology and very important information for the Human race, of course it will be immediately converted to a weapons platform. BO0O0O0M!

reply to post by mbkennel


Very good points, its unfortunate we will ultimately blast are selves to oblivion.
Once this Tech is fully harnessed it will be used to create a small chamber in a suitcase, with a very small/microscopic *star* in a very balanced environment(sphere).
They will find a target and allow that balanced device to go unstable and .......B0O0O0O0O0OM,
*The Fusion Bomb is born*

Originally posted by jdub297
reply to post by mbkennel

 

The National Ignition Facility is 99% about nuclear weapons and 1% about energy generation---the PR cover.

Without credible cites and sources, that statement is nothing more than your misguided opinion.

It's my informed opinion that nuclear weapons is the dominant subject of the NIF scientific runs.

The physics studied by NIF is precisely that of the high-energy fluid mechanics & radiative transfer involved in the secondary stage of thermonuclear weapons, which is the area of primary uncertainty. There will be classified runs.

Most importantly, follow the money. The budget for the NIF is from the NNSA part of the DOE. It is not part of the Office of Fusion Energy Sciences---because it isn't about fusion energy.

It's much much further from commercialization than batteries or solar

Name a solar facility that is producing commercial electrical power.

www.pv-tech.org...

among a number.

How much profit is Solyndra generating, even after we wasted almost $600 million?
How many Fisker Electrics are there on the road today?
Just look at the "bottom line" for such battery "giants" as EnerDel (HEV) and A123. Tell me how "commercial" they are without taxpayers propping them up.

What is the point here? Without government intervention the cheapest power is provided by unregulated coal.

and it's about preserving nuclear weaponry.

Repeating BS does not render it any less BS than it was the 1st time around.

jw

It's about preserving nuclear weaponry. This is not a secret, the DOE says so.

lasers.llnl.gov...

The National Ignition Campaign (NIC) encompasses all of the experiments, hardware and infrastructure needed to carry out the initial integrated ignition experiments on NIF beginning in 2010 and to continue research on ignition in the following years. NIC is a key element of the National Nuclear Security Administration's Stockpile Stewardship Program.

NIC's ICF experiments are designed to advance the National Nuclear Security Administration's Stockpile Stewardship Program as well as basic high energy density science research in such fields as astrophysics, nuclear physics, radiation transport, materials dynamics and hydrodynamics (see Science at the Extremes).

This is a translation for "calibrating the hydrodynamical simulations codes used in the modeling of nuclear weapons".

It goes on to say:

Other experiments will provide scientists with the necessary understanding of the physics underlying the use of ICF for safe, clean energy production (see Inertial Fusion Energy).

Note "other experiments"---secondary goals of the NIF. "necessary understanding of the physics" also is a translation from "very far from commercialization". None of the NIF design was meant to explore any of the engineering issues involved in a commercial power production plant (you'd probably used charged particle beams not lasers at a minimum), by contrast the plant being built in France for magnetic-confinement fusion and its experimental program does have exploring engineering issues, especially in materials, as a primary scientific goal.

Note that my description of the facts (NIF is about nuclear weaponry primarily) does not represent my preference.
I personally believe that the only commercially feasible nuclear power is, and will continue to be, fission, and the commercial feasibility of it is already in jeopardy for capital cost and (sometimes perceived & sometimes real) safety reasons, but is nevertheless a desirable goal because of the need to mitigate the magnitude of global warming.

If fusion provides us with super cheap energy how will this change society? Could a Utopia be started by this one breakthrough? Imagine a world where we don't spend so much on petrochemicals to produce food. Everybody get fed, and a laptop computer too.

reply to post by nobodysavedme


Oh really, due to the building being vaporized? Show me where you researched that. Here is some actual research.

www.llnl.gov...

In the process of achieving this milestone, the NIF research team has met or exceeded a number of critical performance criteria including:
• Demonstration of 0.2 to 25 nanosecond shaped pulses.
• Less than five hours between shots (providing capability for more than 700 laser shots per year.)
• Better than required beam uniformity.
• Beam relative timing to 6 picoseconds (trillionths of a second.)

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by nobodysavedme

 

Oh really, due to the building being vaporized? Show me where you researched that. Here is some actual research.

www.llnl.gov...

In the process of achieving this milestone, the NIF research team has met or exceeded a number of critical performance criteria including:
• Demonstration of 0.2 to 25 nanosecond shaped pulses.
• Less than five hours between shots (providing capability for more than 700 laser shots per year.)
• Better than required beam uniformity.
• Beam relative timing to 6 picoseconds (trillionths of a second.)

i never said the building would be vaporized.learn to read.

5 hours between shots?

you can produce power with 5 hours between shots?

also you forgot to mention the little fact that the very expensive ULTRACLEAR OPTICS FOR ALL THE LASERS HAVE TO BE HAVE TO BE CHANGED AFTER EVERY SHOT due to deposition of debris from the shots.


this facility is really about weapons research.



i quote:-
"NIF also will be used to achieve inertial confinement fusion ignition with energy gain, which will provide researchers with a better understanding of the processes that occur in nuclear weapons...!

Originally posted by nobodysavedme
i never said the building would be vaporized.learn to read.

you do realize that some fraction of the very high energy lasers beams will hit the target VAPORISE IT AND .....AND then CONTINUE to the OTHER side of the chamber and damage it and or

vaporize

bits from it or do you think the beams are going to magically STOP at the pellet?
5 hours between shots?

Seems my reading ability is intact, perhaps you need to get your memory checked out. I'm glad we both agree your original statement of the laser beams vaporizing the building is rediculous.

you can produce power with 5 hours between shots?

Yes, you can, I'm glad I can educate you further.
"the National Ignition Facility generated the equivalent of 411 trillion watts of peak power, which the NIF described as being 1,000 times more energy than the entire US uses "at any instant in time"."
www.theregister.co.uk...

also you forgot to mention the little fact that the very expensive ULTRACLEAR OPTICS FOR ALL THE LASERS HAVE TO BE HAVE TO BE CHANGED AFTER EVERY SHOT due to deposition of debris from the shots.

Actually, this is false, they are usually replaced after every shot, they do not have to be and are not always replaced. This is something they are working on solving. Regardless this is a strawman argument. If substantial energy is created at a reduced cost and prices are lower using this technology who cares what has to be replaced?

this facility is really about weapons research.

You're right, everything that has it's roots in weapons and war should not be used. So you don't use antibiotics for any reason right?

i quote:-
"NIF also will be used to achieve inertial confinement fusion ignition with energy gain, which will provide researchers with a better understanding of the processes that occur in nuclear weapons...!

Another strawman argument, who cares about the other uses of the NIF, if it generates power cheaper than what we currently pay the other uses are moot. Your arguments are all invalid.

Fusion is the least viable of alternate energy sources, solar, wind, geothermal, are all in a much better position NOW to start redusing energy needs. Big Coal will stop at nothing to thwart sustainable energy.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by nobodysavedme
i never said the building would be vaporized.learn to read.

you do realize that some fraction of the very high energy lasers beams will hit the target VAPORISE IT AND .....AND then CONTINUE to the OTHER side of the chamber and damage it and or

vaporize

bits from it or do you think the beams are going to magically STOP at the pellet?
5 hours between shots?

Seems my reading ability is intact, perhaps you need to get your memory checked out. I'm glad we both agree your original statement of the laser beams vaporizing the building is rediculous.

you can produce power with 5 hours between shots?

Yes, you can, I'm glad I can educate you further.
"the National Ignition Facility generated the equivalent of 411 trillion watts of peak power, which the NIF described as being 1,000 times more energy than the entire US uses "at any instant in time"."
www.theregister.co.uk...

learn to read and remember.i never said vaporize the BUILDING.

my cellphone battery's energy can produce more POWER if i use it in 0.000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds than "411 trillion watts of peak power".

you seem to be confused between energy and power.

here are some pointers for you.





en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by nobodysavedme


I'm sorry you can't admit your mistake. You flat out stated it may continue to the other side of the chamber and vaporize part of it. Is the chamber somehow not part of the building? I even put it in bold for you.

Cool story on your cell phone battery, I give you actual scientific data and you make up numbers and don't refute what I said. Show me some scientific evidence to support your cell phone theory.

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
reply to post by nobodysavedme

 

I'm sorry you can't admit your mistake. You flat out stated it may continue to the other side of the chamber and vaporize part of it. Is the chamber somehow not part of the building? I even put it in bold for you.

Cool story on your cell phone battery, I give you actual scientific data and you make up numbers and don't refute what I said. Show me some scientific evidence to support your cell phone theory.

yes PARTS of it.


you are confused between energy and power.

p=e/t

power = energy divide by time.

1000 joules in 1 second = 1 kilowatt

1000 joules in 0.000001 seconds =1000 megawatts power.

hence my cell phone has more energy than that used in above.

use a magnifying glass?

it just concentrates energy from a large area into a small area.

this concentrates energy from a large time period into a very small time period.

just multiply your power by the small time period to get your actual energy...

this is cool my father did some work at this lab.

is the energy subsidized?

reply to post by nobodysavedme

you do realize that some fraction of the very high energy lasers beams will hit the target VAPORISE IT AND .....AND then CONTINUE to the OTHER side of the chamber and damage it and or vaporize bits from it

i never said the building would be vaporized.learn to read.

learn to read and remember.i never said vaporize the BUILDING.

yes PARTS of it.

At least you finally admit you DID say part of the building would be vaporized, after lying and claiming you didnt say it. I guess that's as much a win as any I will get from you.