Rising gas prices are due to free market forces...

Speculation primarily affects the Demand Curve (currently bullish due to speculation regarding the Iranian situation and the proximity to the Strait of Hormuz). In addition to Demand there is the Supply factor and that is also bullish presently due to the Saudis saying that they will cut oil production. Supply and Demand determines the Price.

reply to post by mastahunta
That is not speculation, it is price gouging by wall-street. No one at that level ever seems to loose money, if there was a possibility of losing money than it would be speculating. Look at the truth, these people have created ways of gaining money with cheaply borrowed money. The whole thing is a form of deceit and although the general public is allowed to participate, their influence is miniscule. In order to be legal, all citizens can get involved. Trouble is when regular people put money in it is through funds that have high rates. I've studied it and could make money at the expense of all Americans but will not venture into deceitful practices.

reply to post by mastahunta


Yeah. No one said Freedom was nice , but you said it yourself. You are completely free to profit in the way you see fit. That is what happens when you are free ... either profit from your own ingenuity , profit off other's ingenuity , or live off the government.

Socialism at its best sir , you.

----

Eventually the government should step in if the most needed life source besides water and food are increasing beyond the means for the country to operate. I think 4.50$ is the maximum amount our economy can sustain for fuel. The government would not have a choice but to step in.

I do agree with some government intervention , but only when necessary and then they need to get back out. You fixed the problem , don't keep fixin it if it doesn't need fixin.

Originally posted by mastahunta

Can any person opt out of gas prices???

Sure you can.

Produce your own fuel.

People are co-opting in Michigan and producing diesel and ethanol. Sucks for long trips, but the farmers are doing an OK job.

People in this country got lazy and relied on someone else to produce for them, so those people now get to name their price.

Originally posted by Realtruth

Originally posted by mastahunta

Can any person opt out of gas prices???

Sure you can.

Produce your own fuel.

People are co-opting in Michigan and producing diesel and ethanol. Sucks for long trips, but the farmers are doing an OK job.

People in this country got lazy and relied on someone else to produce for them, so those people now get to name their price.

Hell ya!

thats sort of like saying..."You have terminal cancer you say???"

"Well get up and do some jumping jacks, drink some water...you'll be fine"
I think there is a better option and I do have access or time to produce fuel or refine fuel.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by mastahunta

 

Yeah. No one said Freedom was nice , but you said it yourself. You are completely free to profit in the way you see fit. That is what happens when you are free ... either profit from your own ingenuity , profit off other's ingenuity , or live off the government.

Socialism at its best sir , you.

----

Eventually the government should step in if the most needed life source besides water and food are increasing beyond the means for the country to operate. I think 4.50$ is the maximum amount our economy can sustain for fuel. The government would not have a choice but to step in.

I do agree with some government intervention , but only when necessary and then they need to get back out. You fixed the problem , don't keep fixin it if it doesn't need fixin.

edit on 25-2-2012 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

My problem is that it is not right to gouge the entire world for the benefit of a few people.
I also think the current prices are manipulated... I do not have to accept it or agree with
it which is the real beauty of freedom.

Free market requires unrestricted market entry to work.

Most people blame the oil companies and don't understand what's really happening. The Oil companies can participate in this market and make money in excess of their selling price if they want but cannot create a company to drive prices up. The government reprimanded a US oil company for doing this a few years back and told them they don't want to see them doing this again....... Another words, we don't want anyone to know you do so don't have a special office for it....... The government can't legally restrict the oil companies from participating in this, it's open to everyone who wants to under the laws. Just because it's legal doesn't make it right though.

Originally posted by Vilkata
Free market requires unrestricted market entry to work.

Free Market require ethics, Lottery tickets require luck, flying requires super powers.

I personally think were going to start seeing large protests in DC in a few months from now. The combination of $5.00 a gallon gas prices and the increase in food prices are really going to affect a lot of people's pocket books. Not to mention, the effect it's going to have on local and national businesses.

The prices at the grocery stores are steadily rising, heck you can't buy a single steak for less than $12.00 now! You can hear people talking about the high prices just walking past the meat department.

To our friends across the pond, I know you're used to $5.00 a gallon for gas, but to many Americans it will become a shock and a hard pill to swallow. These increases will push our economy over the brink. Congress better open the oil reserves or do something to head off an economic catastrophe.

Originally posted by WeRpeons
I personally think were going to start seeing large protests in DC in a few months from now. The combination of $5.00 a gallon gas prices and the increase in food prices are really going to affect a lot of people's pocket books. Not to mention, the effect it's going to have on local and national businesses.

The prices at the grocery stores are steadily rising, heck you can't buy a single steak for less than $12.00 now! You can hear people talking about the high prices just walking past the meat department.

To our friends across the pond, I know you're used to $5.00 a gallon for gas, but to many Americans it will become a shock and a hard pill to swallow. These increases will push our economy over the brink. Congress better open the oil reserves or do something to head off an economic catastrophe.

It is funny because it was the gas prices that essentially broke the camels back in 08.
Did you know that gas prices have gone up nearly 900% in thirty years? I cannot, for
life of me understand people who have come to this thread and defend this stuff, in
anyway. Imagine if wages went up 900%?

The most sickening part of the whole oil ordeal, is that the big oil companies are setting record profits each quarter...I mean c'mon

Originally posted by mastahunta
Free Market require ethics, Lottery tickets require luck, flying requires super powers.

And any government solutions require divinity.

Ethics, luck, and the laws of physics are far more practical than deus ex machinas.

Well, on the flipside, the high price of oil makes people drive less which is better for the environment. I can't understand why people have to fly all over the world to vacation anyway. It takes a week to recover from a vacation and a year to save for it. WTF The grass is greener on the other side of the fence? It's greener because you're money was green and they have it now...... Buy local, vacation local.....Do something good for the environment that way.

This is a great thread and effects us all here no-matter where we are in the world.
Here is a link that might shed some light on this crap, if it has already been posted my apologies here.
online.wsj.com...



Regardless of the reason it sure smells like treason :-)

Also to add here the US saying no to the Keystone Pipeline looks to me as intentional self implosion of some sorts.

S&F
Regards, Iwinder

I'm so scared I'm gonna fall of my chair.

Originally posted by rickymouse
Well, on the flipside, the high price of oil makes people drive less which is better for the environment. I can't understand why people have to fly all over the world to vacation anyway. It takes a week to recover from a vacation and a year to save for it. WTF The grass is greener on the other side of the fence? It's greener because you're money was green and they have it now...... Buy local, vacation local.....Do something good for the environment that way.

Well said and I could not agree more with your statement.
Star for you Sir/Madame

reply to post by mastahunta

thats sort of like saying..."You have terminal cancer you say???" "Well get up and do some jumping jacks, drink some water...you'll be fine" I think there is a better option and I do have access or time to produce fuel or refine fuel.

Your strawman is nothing at all like what Realtruth was arguing.

There is no reasonable evidence to suggest doing jumping jacks and drinking "some" water will heal the disease of cancer, but there is plenty of evidence to bear out what Realtruth has argued.

Make your own fuel

Making your own feul

Make feul at home...

Make your own gas

Make your own biodiesel

How to make your own feul

Of course, it makes sense that someone who claims that the oil cartels that control the price of oil is "due to free market forces" would then make the ludicrous argument that suggesting people make their own fuel is like telling someone with cancer to heal the cancer by doing jumping jacks.

reply to post by mastahunta


There is nothing free about the free markets, in fact I don't know why people still call it that. Its like an oxymoron, it should all be called the controlled markets.

But yes this whole investing thing has reached new heights of degeneration, but such is life all things will go to this and lead to this and people will take advantage of it. Then eventually in time it will come crashing down, so everybody tries to pull out before that time comes.

Its the same old #, if you want to get off gas I suggest you all get together and find other way or alternatives. And yes there are alternatives and alternative lifestyles. But you know there are people who say otherwise, because frankly its there job to say so. But mostly because people do not really care and just blindly take what is given to them.

Kind of like free markets.

Originally posted by mastahunta
To put it simply.

If speculators were not FREE to speculate, we would not have to pay for their
speculation.

Nobody is FORCING speculators to drive the costs of gas up and up and up,
they are FREE to do it, so they do it with impunity.

Actually your right. But then they would not be making as much money off it. So like you see its all about human greed, more and more, pushing the bounds of what they can get away with....Simply because they can. Which is the reason why anybody does anything.

Gas might be as low as 2.11 per gallon if people would demand the repeal of a law, H.R. 5660. No amount of drilling will help, the repeal of this bad law would.

Before 2000 investors were allowed to purchase a limited number of "futures" and crude oil was considered a strategic commodity. Thus futures contracts were tightly regulated untill congress decided to let hedge funds and investment banks wreak havoc in the name of modernization.

According to OPEC $30 to $40 per barrel is caused by speculation. People who have the means to buy oil contracts but do not have the means to take delivery or to distribute the product. This small number of people are responsible for about $1.40 of every gallon... fix the rules and this will change.

I would encourage everyone to contact their representatives and demand the repeal of H.R. 5660.

Enough is enough. All those extra dollars in circulation will help everbody instead of the offshore bank accounts of a few.