Rising gas prices are due to free market forces...

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posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by mastahunta
 





thats sort of like saying..."You have terminal cancer you say???" "Well get up and do some jumping jacks, drink some water...you'll be fine" I think there is a better option and I do have access or time to produce fuel or refine fuel.


Your strawman is nothing at all like what Realtruth was arguing.

There is no reasonable evidence to suggest doing jumping jacks and drinking "some" water will heal the disease of cancer, but there is plenty of evidence to bear out what Realtruth has argued.

Make your own fuel

Making your own feul

Make feul at home...

Make your own gas

Make your own biodiesel

How to make your own feul

Of course, it makes sense that someone who claims that the oil cartels that control the price of oil is "due to free market forces" would then make the ludicrous argument that suggesting people make their own fuel is like telling someone with cancer to heal the cancer by doing jumping jacks.



I used a straw man example exactly because asking everyone who is fed up with this
price gouging to make bio diesel is just as ridiculous as my straw man.

Tell me? have you ever lived in a small apartment? Would you beable or willing to refine and
store caustic and explosive fuel in your small living room? In fact even 30 gallons of the fuel
exploding in your apartment would devastate all the units around your unit. I know I can't even
afford the initial investment to buy the refining equipment, so your suggestion is a non starter
for me on several fronts.

May claim was, to be specific, Oil Speculation is a free market force, a force that increases
the cost of fuel to the point where it is a burden. The auxiliary market serves no purpose
but to rip customers off and I don't think it is unreasonable for me to be against it.




posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by mastahunta
 


It matters not where you live, if you have the actual will to do something it - usually - can be done. You can present all your woeful excuses as to why you can't do anything other than complain, and complain, and complain and that any suggestions towards fixing the problems you complain about have no bearing on you because you are...well kind of like a cancer patient who apparently thinks jumping jacks and drinking more water is a waste of time.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by downwind
Gas might be as low as 2.11 per gallon if people would demand the repeal of a law, H.R. 5660. No amount of drilling will help, the repeal of this bad law would.

Before 2000 investors were allowed to purchase a limited number of "futures" and crude oil was considered a strategic commodity. Thus futures contracts were tightly regulated untill congress decided to let hedge funds and investment banks wreak havoc in the name of modernization.

According to OPEC $30 to $40 per barrel is caused by speculation. People who have the means to buy oil contracts but do not have the means to take delivery or to distribute the product. This small number of people are responsible for about $1.40 of every gallon... fix the rules and this will change.

I would encourage everyone to contact their representatives and demand the repeal of H.R. 5660.

Enough is enough. All those extra dollars in circulation will help everbody instead of the offshore bank accounts of a few.


According to Jeff Hofmeister, former CEO of Shell, thinks that some barrels
have a 50% speculation quotient attached to them.

Seriously, gas has gone up 250% in ten years, that is not sustainable, can you imagine if the
trend continues unfettered? eeesh...



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 07:47 PM
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You still drive.. a gasoline powered vehicle?

How quaint!

Rising gas prices must really hurt, eh?

Get off the gas, mate.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by mastahunta
 


It matters not where you live, if you have the actual will to do something it - usually - can be done. You can present all your woeful excuses as to why you can't do anything other than complain, and complain, and complain and that any suggestions towards fixing the problems you complain about have no bearing on you because you are...well kind of like a cancer patient who apparently thinks jumping jacks and drinking more water is a waste of time.




Nice, attack me and the person I am because I am sick of Oil Cartels ripping off Americans.
Maybe you don't really care, which is why you would suggest the non solution you did.

I have a suggestion, eliminate oil speculation.
edit on 25-2-2012 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by Furbs
You still drive.. a gasoline powered vehicle?

How quaint!

Rising gas prices must really hurt, eh?

Get off the gas, mate.


Yes, I thinking about selling a kidney or buying a horse, I have a large closet which is good.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 07:57 PM
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reply to post by mastahunta
 





Nice, attack me and the person I am because I am sick of Oil Cartels ripping of Americans. Maybe you don't really care, which is why you would suggest the non solution you did.


Look! You cannot have cartels in a free market. Cartelization is antithetical to free market principles. That there are oil cartels is just one of several bits of evidence to clue you into the fact that it is not "free market forces" driving oil prices. Conversely, the more people begin manufacturing their own fuel the more this affects the market place regardless of cartelization.

You want to eat your cake and have it too. You want to stay reliant on oil cartelization, but you don't want to pay the price of it, and being as woefully ignorant as you are about economy and free market principles you surely do not want to consider the idea of an actual free market, you are all for the absurd regulations that benefits cartelization. You can eat your cake, but once you have you can no longer have that cake, just the crap it produces.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by mastahunta
Nice, attack me and the person I am because I am sick of Oil Cartels ripping off Americans.
Maybe you don't really care, which is why you would suggest the non solution you did.

I have a suggestion, eliminate oil speculation.
edit on 25-2-2012 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)


My suggestion was better, because it is something that YOU can actually do by yourself to stop being ripped off by oil speculators.

Stop buying gasoline.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 08:11 PM
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Originally posted by mastahunta
May claim was, to be specific, Oil Speculation is a free market force, a force that increases
the cost of fuel to the point where it is a burden. The auxiliary market serves no purpose
but to rip customers off and I don't think it is unreasonable for me to be against it.


Do you have any evidence of speculation increasing current prices? Documentation?



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
reply to post by mastahunta
 





Nice, attack me and the person I am because I am sick of Oil Cartels ripping of Americans. Maybe you don't really care, which is why you would suggest the non solution you did.


Look! You cannot have cartels in a free market. Cartelization is antithetical to free market principles. That there are oil cartels is just one of several bits of evidence to clue you into the fact that it is not "free market forces" driving oil prices. Conversely, the more people begin manufacturing their own fuel the more this affects the market place regardless of cartelization.

You want to eat your cake and have it too. You want to stay reliant on oil cartelization, but you don't want to pay the price of it, and being as woefully ignorant as you are about economy and free market principles you surely do not want to consider the idea of an actual free market, you are all for the absurd regulations that benefits cartelization. You can eat your cake, but once you have you can no longer have that cake, just the crap it produces.





I do not want to stay reliant on cartelization, why are you assigning things to me that I don't
support? I am completely against cartels, but I don't think free markets prevent cartels like
conventional wisdom states. The Mexican drug cartels run a purely market based operation
and there is plenty of control over the smaller distributors that branch out. You seem to think
that consolidation cannot be achieved in a power struggle which businesses engage in everyday.
Increasing market share is virtually the mission of every fortune 500 company, the goal IS
consolidation,
edit on 25-2-2012 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by imherejusttoread

Originally posted by mastahunta
May claim was, to be specific, Oil Speculation is a free market force, a force that increases
the cost of fuel to the point where it is a burden. The auxiliary market serves no purpose
but to rip customers off and I don't think it is unreasonable for me to be against it.


Do you have any evidence of speculation increasing current prices? Documentation?


Yes Jeff Hofmeister's Senate testimony in 2008. The fact that prices have shot up 250% in ten
years, when the positive or negative trend use to be 40% in the same period. I pair this with
what happened on Wall Street and it seems to be clear. Are you asking me this so I will accept
the prices and shut up?

There are a lot of undertones in this thread, namely; who am I to question the exorbitant
costs at the pump. Like everything it seems to boil down to protect the corporations and
shut up, slave.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 08:22 PM
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Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by mastahunta
Nice, attack me and the person I am because I am sick of Oil Cartels ripping off Americans.
Maybe you don't really care, which is why you would suggest the non solution you did.

I have a suggestion, eliminate oil speculation.
edit on 25-2-2012 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)


My suggestion was better, because it is something that YOU can actually do by yourself to stop being ripped off by oil speculators.

Stop buying gasoline.


No, I think it is better to start off by addressing the abusive practices of the industry.
I don't know a single soul who wants to pay for speculation induced premiums, except
for the Corporate defense league here.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by mastahunta
 




"Conventional wisdom" may be conventional but it is rarely wise. "Conventional wisdom" points to the heavily regulated markets of the U.S. and declares that a "free market".

Regulations and acts of legislation actually have the effect of paving the way for cartels. Hence the Federal Reserve and the banking cartels. Free markets prevent cartels when buyers stop buying from cartels and start buying other products to replace that by being offered by a cartel.

If enough people began making their own fuel it is easily enough to predict the federal government would step in and put a stop to that, all the while "conventional wisdom" will keep calling it a "free market".



edit on 25-2-2012 by Jean Paul Zodeaux because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by mastahunta

Originally posted by Furbs

Originally posted by mastahunta
Nice, attack me and the person I am because I am sick of Oil Cartels ripping off Americans.
Maybe you don't really care, which is why you would suggest the non solution you did.

I have a suggestion, eliminate oil speculation.
edit on 25-2-2012 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)


My suggestion was better, because it is something that YOU can actually do by yourself to stop being ripped off by oil speculators.

Stop buying gasoline.


No, I think it is better to start off by addressing the abusive practices of the industry.
I don't know a single soul who wants to pay for speculation induced premiums, except
for the Corporate defense league here.


Well, of the two of us, you and I, one of us is paying high gas prices and one of us isn't.

Address the abusive practices all you want, but when you are ready to DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, vote with your dollars and stop buying the gasoline.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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All of the so called conservatives will defend this, this is what open markets bring us. For the realists of us out here, some of these speculators should be hung, drawn, and quartered, as a punishment for treason against the state. For the open minded out there, this is what the Republicans want for all markets, no rules, no regulation, and massive profit. Please, please, please, think when you vote, and think about who is going to profit.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 08:51 PM
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Originally posted by BubbaJoe
no rules, no regulation, and massive profit. Please, please, please, think when you vote, and think about who is going to profit.


I know, which is why I think so many people have tried to convince me that I am wrong for
thinking the way I do. I think all the people who have tried are simply not willing to state
that they see nothing wrong with any act of business regardless of what it is or who it
effects (in this case everyone in America, no biggie). If business does it, it is sacred
and the peons have to take it, which is the attitude of sheep, slave or loyalist. I do not
think you can call people free if all their REASONABLE options are dictated by wealth,
power and influence.

You can't afford health insurance? take vitamin C and stop complaining, what is the point
of living anyways? We all die someday? If you can see a doctor, then everyone can see a
doctor, can you imagine the dangers???

to

Oil prices

Start a refinery
By a bike
Grow wings
Make Alcohol in your bath tub
Stop Complaining
Can you prove gas is expensive?
Do you know what gas is?
Grow corn in your apartment
render the fat of roadkill and dump it in your tank

How about no???

You grow wings...
edit on 25-2-2012 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 08:52 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


He also has spent his entire Presidency Europeanizing us. What is the freakin obsession he has with European Socialists?
edit on 25-2-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


He also has spent his entire Presidency Europeanizing us. What is the freakin obsession he has with European Socialists?
edit on 25-2-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)


Ya a socialist who just proposed slashing corporate tax rates -

You are the one obsessed with European socialists, maybe you should stop watching TV
edit on 25-2-2012 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:01 PM
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Originally posted by BubbaJoe
All of the so called conservatives will defend this, this is what open markets bring us. For the realists of us out here, some of these speculators should be hung, drawn, and quartered, as a punishment for treason against the state. For the open minded out there, this is what the Republicans want for all markets, no rules, no regulation, and massive profit. Please, please, please, think when you vote, and think about who is going to profit.


What makes you think it's all conservatives speculating in the market? Don't you know that Obama has the biggest share of Wall Streeters behind him? What a foolish kind of thinking you have.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:03 PM
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Originally posted by mastahunta

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


He also has spent his entire Presidency Europeanizing us. What is the freakin obsession he has with European Socialists?
edit on 25-2-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)


Ya a socialist who just proposed slashing corporate tax rates -

You are the one obsessed with European socialists, maybe you should stop watching TV
edit on 25-2-2012 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)


Lol this isn't about watching tv. Obama has been obsessed with Europeanizing us. All you have to do is listen to him. I doubt you even hear what he says if you bother to listen to him.

However I let the Internet do the talking
Daniel Hannan, Wall Street Journal


He is not pursuing a set of random initiatives but a program of comprehensive Europeanization: European health care, European welfare, European carbon taxes, European day care, European college education, even a European foreign policy, based on engagement with supranational technocracies, nuclear disarmament and a reluctance to deploy forces overseas.

online.wsj.com...
More on Europeanizing the US


By now you may have heard: America is on its way to becoming another European country. Now, by that I do not mean that we’re moving our tectonic plate off the coast of France or anything, but rather that a century-long dream of American progressives is finally looking like it might become a reality. The recently passed health-care legislation is the cornerstone of the Europeanization of America. And to pay for it, the White House is now floating the idea of imposing a value-added tax (VAT) like the ones they have throughout most of Europe.
In the egghead-o-sphere, there’s been an ongoing debate about whether America should become more like Europe. The battle lines are split almost perfectly along left-right lines ideologically. Liberals like Europe’s welfare states, unionized workforces (in and out of government), generous benefits, long vacations, etc. Conservatives like America’s economic growth, its dynamism and innovation.





To be fair, liberals insist conservatives are wrong to think that Europeanizing America will necessarily come at any significant cost. New York Times columnist and Princeton economist Paul Krugman says that, in exchange for only a tiny bit less growth, Europeans buy a whole lot of security and comfort

www.nationalreview.com...
edit on 25-2-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)
edit on 25-2-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)





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