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Rising gas prices are due to free market forces...

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posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


He also has oil money in his campaign chest.

But it's ok if it's for their reasons.




posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:15 PM
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Why oh why can't people get it? It is not a free market when you are forced to do it. It is a monopoly created by GOVERNMENT REGULATION to benefit s few mega corporations making it impossible for some legitimate competition to arise and challenge them. THESE MEGA CORPORATIONS BECAME SUCH DUE AGAIN TO GOVERNMENT REGULATION securing their markets against fair competition.

I can brew 190% pure ethanol for about 50 cents a gallon and you can run all engines on it including diesels and jets with some simple modifications. However I have to register with the ATF and if I try and sell some to my neighbors I have to pay mega fees and a bunch of taxes etc etc. etc. but hey I get a tax credit if I do whooopee....Those supposed regulations to protect consumers are nothing more then coercion to protect the oil cartels monopoly on energy markets.


edit on 25-2-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:28 PM
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Like I said before: If Gas prices go to $4.00 and above for a sustained month or more, the exact same thing that happened last time--2008 was it? It will collapse the still extremely fragile economy, and crash the stock market.

This time, there will be no bail outs... because of our major debt crisis... Talk about the Great Depression? Many even NOW are living in it.. Now, imagine another 50% in that bracket....

Keep raising prices on Oil you big companies and traders.. you are only gonna make a quick buck NOW, but in the Months ahead, you will have been the main reason for the collapse of the greatest super power in the World..
(And you will be charged with treason I hope).

And Diesel... hell, it ALWAYS used to be cheaper, remember? I mean, it requires MUCH less refining, so it should be much cheaper.. but these oil guys KNOW the big rigs are the backbone of the country, and HAVE to pay whatever it costs.. Its evil, and greedy... "Greed is the downfall of any nation" That is how Rome fell, and Greece... (and so many more lost cities in ancient times)...



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:28 PM
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reply to post by mastahunta
 


and more


Barack Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and their fellow socialists do not have enough respect for the American people to actually tell the truth to them. These socialists are not now, nor will they ever be “born again political conservatives.” They will never see the light of fiscal responsibility nor will they ever become disciples of the Constitution.
They all only want one thing: to Europeanize America. And they will stop at nothing to make America a has been.




progressivethink.com...

Bloggers are not tv

and more commentary


My conservative friends -- and even a few media liberals -- are agreed: The bloom is off the Obama rose. He's not the Obamessiah, just another 50-percent president. He tried to do too much too fast, and his numbers are sinking. The Europeanization of health care is dead. Fuhgeddabouddit.

omnia21.com...

And oh I think this is a Progressive site


The question posed by social scientist Charles Murray at the American Enterprise Institute’s annual dinner this month could hardly have been simpler: Do Americans want the United States to be like Europe?
He asked as someone who likes and admires Europe and Europeans. He asked also because it is becoming increasingly apparent that restructuring the U.S. along the lines of the European social-democratic model is the change many in the new administration — perhaps including President Obama himself — believe in. Such a redirection surely deserves consideration.
Murray is convinced that Europeanizing America is a bad idea, and not only because the European model creates chronically “sclerotic economies.” More significant, he says, is the fact that embracing the European model means discarding the Founders’ revolutionary reinvention of government, and of the relationship between the state and the citizen.


Murray has not explored the national-security implications of Europeanization but, coincidentally, John Bolton, the former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, addresses precisely that topic in a new essay in Commentary magazine.

www.defenddemocracy.org...

edit on 25-2-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-2-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 25-2-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by mastahunta

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
no rules, no regulation, and massive profit. Please, please, please, think when you vote, and think about who is going to profit.


I know, which is why I think so many people have tried to convince me that I am wrong for
thinking the way I do. I think all the people who have tried are simply not willing to state
that they see nothing wrong with any act of business regardless of what it is or who it
effects (in this case everyone in America, no biggie). If business does it, it is sacred
and the peons have to take it, which is the attitude of sheep, slave or loyalist. I do not
think you can call people free if all their REASONABLE options are dictated by wealth,
power and influence.

You can't afford health insurance? take vitamin C and stop complaining, what is the point
of living anyways? We all die someday? If you can see a doctor, then everyone can see a
doctor, can you imagine the dangers???

to

Oil prices

Start a refinery
By a bike
Grow wings
Make Alcohol in your bath tub
Stop Complaining
Can you prove gas is expensive?
Do you know what gas is?
Grow corn in your apartment
render the fat of roadkill and dump it in your tank

How about no???

You grow wings...

edit on 25-2-2012 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)


I try really hard to be a productive member of society, my wife and both work part time, get no government aid, except for the VA medical benefits, that I gave 7 years of my life for. The republicans (also referred to as old, rich, white guys) are scared. I am too old at this point to do much, but will not believe the lies, and will fight back on whatever front I can. I say we put the screws to the white wing and truly allow America to be free. Oh yeah, I am a white boy, and parts of my family has been here since 1621, would challenge some of you other bigots to show family history going back half that far. Don't even imply pics or it didn't happen, I have the documentation.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:30 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 



Why oh why can't people get it? It is not a free market when you are forced to do it. It is a monopoly created by GOVERNMENT REGULATION to benefit s few mega corporations making it impossible for some legitimate competition to arise and challenge them.


What complete and total nonsense. I am sorry that someone convince you of this nonsense, but that is exactly what it is.

The truth is that without democratic style governments, monopolies are more likely to exist.

The Black Knight controlling the bridge is the classic example. Also the guy controlling the only water supply in a desert region.

To claim that monopolies can not exist without government influence is naive, completely absurd nonsense.

Think about it for a few minutes, and you should quickly figure out that this is true.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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Originally posted by mastahunta
Yes Jeff Hofmeister's Senate testimony in 2008. The fact that prices have shot up 250% in ten
years, when the positive or negative trend use to be 40% in the same period.


I reviewed his testimony and am completely confused as to how you draw the conclusion of speculation. He basically gives two major reasons for the increase in consumption and prices:


The significant economic point comes when tensions arise between the growth of global demand for energy and the pace of investment, production and supply.


and


U.S. production has fallen steadily for the last 35 years. Oil production in this country peaked in the 1970s. As U.S. consumption of oil has doubled, domestic oil production has fallen off nearly 40 percent. Why? In large part, this is the result of government policies that placed important oil and gas resources off limits.


So, unless you're seeing something in this testimony that i'm not, in which you can point out to me specifically, the assertion of speculation as the problem is outright deception. He basically says there's ample supply for everyone but government won't allow the development of those resources.

To sum it up: the reason for price increases is due to government meddling in the economy, not speculation.



I pair this with what happened on Wall Street and it seems to be clear.


Then that is bad reasoning. That's basically saying this:

All oil/energy deals with money.
Wall Street means money.
Therefore, all oil/energy dreals with Wall Street.

What nonsense is that?

What further evidence/documentation can you provide?



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


What nonsense, no republican who has been in a position to "fiscal responsibility" has shown the discipline to do such.

Why do you wallow in such ignorance?

That you repubs actually seem to believe that you can pretend that last three repub admins did not create most of our debt screams of psychosis. Have you people gone mad?



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
All of the so called conservatives will defend this, this is what open markets bring us. For the realists of us out here, some of these speculators should be hung, drawn, and quartered, as a punishment for treason against the state. For the open minded out there, this is what the Republicans want for all markets, no rules, no regulation, and massive profit. Please, please, please, think when you vote, and think about who is going to profit.


What makes you think it's all conservatives speculating in the market? Don't you know that Obama has the biggest share of Wall Streeters behind him? What a foolish kind of thinking you have.


I never said it was conservatives speculating, I said the conservatives supported this free market. Please seek a specialist in remedial reading and comprehension, which I would suggest for all conservatives that watch faux news.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by BubbaJoe

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by BubbaJoe
All of the so called conservatives will defend this, this is what open markets bring us. For the realists of us out here, some of these speculators should be hung, drawn, and quartered, as a punishment for treason against the state. For the open minded out there, this is what the Republicans want for all markets, no rules, no regulation, and massive profit. Please, please, please, think when you vote, and think about who is going to profit.


What makes you think it's all conservatives speculating in the market? Don't you know that Obama has the biggest share of Wall Streeters behind him? What a foolish kind of thinking you have.


I never said it was conservatives speculating, I said the conservatives supported this free market. Please seek a specialist in remedial reading and comprehension, which I would suggest for all conservatives that watch faux news.


Well, you sure could have fooled me with your post about Republicans and conservatives.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by imherejusttoread
 


Say What????????


To sum it up: the reason for price increases is due to government meddling in the economy, not speculation.


You were making sense until you came up with this insane conclusion. You post to EX quotes point to a combination of drop in supply and increase in demand as the reason behind the climb in gas prices, and then you blame it on the government!!!!

I was about to give you a star and compliment you on your observation, until took a hard right off the cliff.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:43 PM
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Originally posted by hawkiye
Why oh why can't people get it? It is not a free market when you are forced to do it. It is a monopoly created by GOVERNMENT REGULATION


OK Hawkiye

Lay it down for us here....

Why are corporations and corporate proponents always trying to deregulate the industries they
are in?

I know for a fact that the Oil Industry habitually donates more to candidates who are free market
advocates. Further more George Bush's cabinet was full of Oil insiders and consequently they were
all free market proponents.

So why would Oil companies and insiders be for free markets if you are saying free markets will destroy
their grip on the industry?

It doesn't make a lick of sense to me man.

I think a lot of you are trying to bridge what you like and prefer, to a reality that is not in line with
what you desire.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by mastahunta
 


Nailed it on the head here.


So why would Oil companies and insiders be for free markets if you are saying free markets will destroy
their grip on the industry?


Excellent post, you are on a roll.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:47 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by imherejusttoread
 


Say What????????


To sum it up: the reason for price increases is due to government meddling in the economy, not speculation.


You were making sense until you came up with this insane conclusion. You post to EX quotes point to a combination of drop in supply and increase in demand as the reason behind the climb in gas prices, and then you blame it on the government!!!!

I was about to give you a star and compliment you on your observation, until took a hard right off the cliff.



I agree with you here -

Ever argument is covered, if its regulated it s the government, if its not regulated its the government.
If you are being exploited by corporations it your fault, it is all very nutty.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by hawkiye
 



Why oh why can't people get it? It is not a free market when you are forced to do it. It is a monopoly created by GOVERNMENT REGULATION to benefit s few mega corporations making it impossible for some legitimate competition to arise and challenge them.


What complete and total nonsense. I am sorry that someone convince you of this nonsense, but that is exactly what it is.

The truth is that without democratic style governments, monopolies are more likely to exist.

The Black Knight controlling the bridge is the classic example. Also the guy controlling the only water supply in a desert region.

To claim that monopolies can not exist without government influence is naive, completely absurd nonsense.

Think about it for a few minutes, and you should quickly figure out that this is true.



Still touting your BS and ignorant of history and reality I see... Sigh! Of course I never said a monopoly could not exist without without democratic governments that is your strawman argument. Any type of government that can bring force to bear can create monopolies whether it be monarchies or so called democracies. However the key point is there is always some sort of force applied to suppress fair competition. In our case this force is brought to bear with government regulations enforced at gun point. So not much different then the Black Knight controlling the bridge. Which blows your strawman argument out of the water.

To suggest that government use more heavy handed regulation to create more freedom is the height of ignorance and stupidity.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:51 PM
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reply to post by mastahunta
 


The sad thing is a lot of intelligent people fall for this free market nonsense.

At what point do they wake up and face reality?



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:52 PM
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Ridiculous argument and one full of ignorance of what is going on across the globe.

Rising gas prices are a result of: (in order of the greatest contributor to least)

1. Trillions of dollars being printed out of thin air driven by Keynesian economics (opposite of free market). This of course lowers the value of currencies and drives up the prices of commodities like oil and food. More than $8 trillion has been printed across the nations of the world. The new culprit is Europe in the midst of their financial crisis.

2. Wars and rumors of wars. The speculation of war with Iran (who produces 10% of the world's oil) and the ramifications of instability this may cause forces oil prices to increase.

3. The realization that oil is a finite resource and will one day be gone forces oil to continue upward. This is negative in that it causes prices to go up but positive in that it increases the demand of alternative energy and the desire of people to engage these technologies.

4. The war on oil in the United States and other countries. This occurs when you have administrations that choose to not build oil pipelines, infrastructure, and open up oil reserves to drilling because of environmental and political agendas. This increases demand and forces prices up.

As you can see 3/4 are mostly a result of government and hardly a representation of free market. Of course there are other limited factors that include speculation, tyranny, corruption, greed, and more. However, the truth does remain that oil prices will continue higher according to current government policy.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:53 PM
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Originally posted by hawkiye
I can brew 190% pure ethanol for about 50 cents a gallon and you can run all engines on it including diesels and jets with some simple modifications. However I have to register with the ATF and if I try and sell some to my neighbors I have to pay mega fees and a bunch of taxes etc etc. etc. but hey I get a tax credit if I do whooopee....Those supposed regulations to protect consumers are nothing more then coercion to protect the oil cartels monopoly on energy markets.


edit on 25-2-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)


To follow up with this part...

I think you should be free to brew and make your own fuel without having to pay
someone to do it. But that doesn't change my other opinions...



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by poet1b
You were making sense until you came up with this insane conclusion. You post to EX quotes point to a combination of drop in supply and increase in demand as the reason behind the climb in gas prices, and then you blame it on the government!!!!


Well, if government is preventing the development of those resources then it's preventing the demand from being satisfied. If government moves out of the way and allows the development of those resources then it will be supplied and the relative demand will be met.



posted on Feb, 25 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by hawkiye
 


Nice try Hawkiye. Honestly I respect you.

My point remains the same, the establishment of monopolies has nothing to do with the existence of government, they can occur with or without the existence of government.

It is the quality of government that prevents monopolies, and oligarchies, from forming.

Like it or not, the quality of government is a huge factor in the creation of monopolies or oligarchies.

It all depends on the establishment of an evenly enforced fair set of rules.

Just like in professional sports.



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