Why is Christianity so obsessed with 'sin'?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


I’ll probably lose my reward in heaven for sharing this but you said something that made me want to post this. I was looking for a way to give to God secretly and as much as he wants. If anyone else is earnestly looking to do this I give you a challenge.

I keep one dollar bills in a compartment in my car. Every time I drive by someone asking for money, or if I am at the store I give them one dollar. Now I don’t always have money so sometimes it goes empty but whenever I have money I put dollars in the spot so that I try not to run out. When I started this I told God that he could take as much as he wanted and I would keep putting ones in until I had no money each check.

There is a verse that says give to all those who ask, and another verse that says you never know when you entertained an angel. If you want some real motivation to stop walking by the homeless beggar read about Lazarus.

But if you need motivation than maybe you aren’t in it for the right reason. Since Jesus says the only way to buy your way into heaven is to sell all you have, give to the poor, then follow me.

Just thought this might help some of you the way it helps me.

reply to post by charles1952


So if I believe in him and such but I am a complete sh###y person then I can go to heaven because I'm his "child".
OR I could not believe in him, donate most of my money to charities and live a life of helping people but go to hell?

I'd rather be the second outta the two, but i could still be a good person and be a christian. So don't think I'm saying christian people are bad

Just too much for me to want to believe, too much garbage it seems.

reply to post by sacgamer25

God hates sin for the same reason you would hate your child doing drugs. Not because he hates his children but because they are hurting themselves.

I never denied God hates sin....and I am not endorsing sin in any way.

The OP commented on how christianity is so focussed on sin, that its central doctrines revolve around sin.
I also pointed out how christianitys sin oriented themes are so different from what Jesus taught.
Therefore one needs to question the origins of christian doctrines.
Did they come from Jesus, or did they come from the men who handled christianity?

Why is there such a difference between what Jesus actually taught and what christianity teaches?

The bible predicted exactly what you are saying.

You throw at me a verse pertaining to false prophets, because thats easier than refuting the point of the OP... That Jesus words bear no resemblance to the doctrines of christianity.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

God hates sin for the same reason you would hate your child doing drugs. Not because he hates his children but because they are hurting themselves.

I never denied God hates sin....and I am not endorsing sin in any way.

The OP commented on how christianity is so focussed on sin, that its central doctrines revolve around sin.
I also pointed out how christianitys sin oriented themes are so different from what Jesus taught.
Therefore one needs to question the origins of christian doctrines.
Did they come from Jesus, or did they come from the men who handled christianity?

Why is there such a difference between what Jesus actually taught and what christianity teaches?

The bible predicted exactly what you are saying.

You throw at me a verse pertaining to false prophets, because thats easier than refuting the point of the OP... That Jesus words bear no resemblance to the doctrines of christianity.

I don't know if you gathered this but I was using those verses to agree with you. One of us is not understanding the other. Sorry for the confusion. But I have been known to call the church the Anti-christ

The false teachers are the ones who are not saying what you are saying. You are speaking the truth.

And the point about sin I was trying to make is God does not hate the sinner. He hates where sin is leading the sinner. He wants us to obey him so that we don't get hurt. He loves us either way, just like I will love my daughter if she becomes a drug addict.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Where I live, I see plenty of beggars on the streets... at traffic stops begging people in cars.
Many people tell the beggar to move on with an annoyed look on their face.

Sometimes I think to myself, perhaps the suffering, hungry beggars are the ones who are truly rich, because I believe God has a reward for them at the end of their lives, regardless of what they believed.

As for the rich folks who have much, yet refuse to give in charity... they need to know that they have nothing of their own, but whats been given to them. They cannot take their wealth with them when they die, but will have a lot to explain in the afterlife.

I try and give as much as I can, whenever I can. I also admit there are times when I dont give money to beggars because I dont have smaller currency notes, and I do feel guilty about it.

reply to post by Pelvi

Dear Pelvi,

Sorry for the confusion, that's certainly not what I meant, and I don't think it's what I said. Maybe there is confusion about "believe in Him."

If God tells you to love your neighbor and you spend your life hating your neighbor, there is some question about whether you really believe in Him. It's not a magic formula you recite, "I believe in Jesus," and then you get Heaven regardless of what you do. If belief doesn't change your life in some way, doesn't change your heart, then your sincerity can be questioned.

Alternatively, if you say you can't stand God and don't want to be committed to Him, but you get a personal feeling of pleasure from giving your money away, you're running a really big risk of getting your reward on Earth only.

Just too much for me to want to believe, too much garbage it seems.

This part confuses me, I don't understand you here.

With respect,
Charles1952

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
reply to post by sacgamer25

 

I try and give as much as I can, whenever I can. I also admit there are times when I dont give money to beggars because I dont have smaller currency notes, and I do feel guilty about it.

edit on 11-2-2012 by sk0rpi0n because: (no reason given)

If I didn't admit to the same I would be a liar. Hopefully God will help us both become better givers.

reply to post by sacgamer25

I don’t even believe that most Christians believe in Jesus Christ.

It doesn't really matter what we believe. If I want to believe in Mickey Mouse as having saved me (already) from sin, then I can. It doesn't prove a thing. Belief in anything or anyone is subjective. "Believing in Christ" is just a mantra oft spouted to vaulted ceilings, organ music and lofty gestures from a minister. You have to go along to get "saved". And keep going to church to keep "going along". They got you with that never ending cycle. Hear it. Believe it. Repeat it. Don't stop... or you won't be "saved" anymore.

Believing I am saved is like going to court and professing I am saved from judgment before the case is even heard. That is blasphemy to God, the true judge ON Judgment Day, not one minute before. Claiming to know Gods will in this regard and asserting that over and over to others so that they are led astray as well is well, unforgivable. Thats one of the deceits found in the church today. Believe, go away, go back to sleep. But come back next Sunday because after a whole week of sinning we need another "shot in the belief" fix.

They believe he was the son of God but they do not know what the Messiah, the Christ was believed to be by the Jews.

Yah, poor Israel. They killed him. Oh, wait. They fingered him and then handed him over to be killed by the Romans. That way they keep their hands clean. And they still don't believe he was the "Messiah". Don't you find that incontrovertible? Modern Judeo Christian ethos in America holds that poor, punished, forsaken Israel has to be saved at all costs and they don't even believe in the core element of Christianity. Do you ever wonder about that?

The Christ was coming to reconcile all men to live holy lives, not just Jews and certainly not just those that call themselves Christians.

Not just Jews? Oh yah, they are "better" than everyone else on the planet, right? They are the "chosen ones" above all else? Says who? All are equal in Gods eyes. Jews are not the best or chosen over anybody. Thats what they want you to believe, alright. Any one who claims exclusion to others is just fostering another lie.

So if a Christian does not believe in the Christ (the savior of all men) will they go to heaven?

There you go again. "The Christ", better than anyone. Yet Bible says all have the power to become "sons" of God. And the reward system lie thing again. Heaven. If you're "good" then you get a reward. Good for goodness sake, silly. Not for some idealized vision of "Paradise". The heaven you refer to is from "the heavens" meaning "out there" as in the whole Universe. Go outside and look up at the stars. There's the heaven(s). There is forever. If you make it past Judgment Day, then you get to continue, out there, in the Heavens. The Firmament. Forever.

So be careful how you treat others and just say yeah, yeah and nay nay for sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. In other words dump all that religious crap and try do discover some actual spiritual understanding of the truth. Not some dogma.

reply to post by User8911

You may have a very good point there, friend. In fact, the Christian Heaven may be just like this: Jesus of Borg
(From the Website)

God's heavenly goal is to surround himself with beings that are submissive, ignorant, dependent, blindly trusting (child-like) and committed to his will alone. (Matt. 18:3, 19:14, Mark 10:14-15, Luke 18:16-17) What do you think God is REALLY planning to use these "sheep" for? Jesus revealed what will happen to individuality in the collective of heaven when he prayed to God the Father, saying: "let them be ONE as you and I are one." (John 17:11,21-23) Individuality must die in the hive collective that will be heaven. Recently, the Star Trek series has shown the hideous and inhuman prospects of this collective mentality in their portrayal of the cyborgenic collective life form called "The Borg." The Borg have no individual wills or consciousness, they live only to serve the collective just as those in heaven will exist only to serve God. (Rev. 7:15) When we examine what God's intentions must be if all he wants are beings which will praise him ceaselessly with no resistance we discover that his plan is to develop an efficient energy device. The psychic/emotional energy which minds create in states of passion and submission is used by God as nourishment and power. The Bible reveals this throughout and shows us this fact in Revelations each time God is getting ready to display his power. Before he displays power, the members of the collective praise him and give him this power (Rev. 4:9-11, 7:9-12, 11:16-17,19, 14:3, 15:3-5,8, 19:4-7). In fact when John attempts to worship the angel of prophecy, the angel tells him "don't do that!" and says he must send his worship energy toward the Godhead collective (Rev. 22:8-9). Any sort of resistance which would make the transmission of energy less efficient is forbidden in heaven (Rev. 21:26-27) because God wants as much efficiency as possible in his nourishment matrix. The reason Jesus says that you must be poor and humble to gain entrance to heaven is that the rich know self-dependence and self-worth and would not be as easy to drain of their energy as those who are ready to give their all to the triune collective of the Godhead. The poor shall be first because they will provide the most efficient energy without resistance. All the teachings of the Bible point to this conclusion: God is preparing an efficient energy source for his collective will. Will you be a willing cog in the feeding machine that is JHVH-1?

The opening chapters of the Bible define a problem; a broken relationship between the human race and the Creator God.
The rest of the Bible, one way or another, is about that broken relationship and ways of dealing with it.
That is what Jesus is talking about- our relationship with God.
That is what faith in Christ is about- the healing of the relationship with God.
To me, "Sin" is another way of labelling that root problem, the broken relationship.

To put it another way;
Why are doctors "obsessed" with illness?
Because dealing with illness is their function. That's what they're for.
Similarly, from a Christian viewpoint, the whole point and central theme of the Bible is that root problem called "Sin"- the broken relationship between humanity and God.

reply to post by DISRAELI

To put it another way;
Why are doctors "obsessed" with illness?
Because dealing with illness is their function. That's what they're for.
Similarly, from a Christian viewpoint, the whole point and central theme of the Bible is that root problem called "Sin"- the broken relationship between humanity and God.

I understand that Sin is a broken relationship between humanity and its maker.
'I know sin exists and I know it is not to be embraced, but rather avoided.

I was referring to the focus on sin in christianity, so much so, that its the basis of all its doctrines revolve around sin.
- original sin : all people are born sinners because of Adam and Eve.
- sin sacrifice : Jesus supposedly died for everyones sins and that everyone who believes so will have all their sins washed away.

I also wanted to draw attention to the difference between Jesus' teachings and the sin-oriented doctrines of Christianity. Jesus always based his teachings around the kingdom of heaven, yet Christian doctrine is all about sin.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
Jesus never based his teachings around the kingdom of heaven, yet Christian doctrine is all about sin.

Comparing this with the OP, I realise that "never" is a slip, where you meant to write "always".
I would suggest that "entering the kingdom of heaven" is about restoring the relationship with God- in other words, dealing with what I have described as the root-problem which is at the heart of the Bible, which Christian terminology labels as the problem of "Sin".
So the teaching of Jesus and Christian terminology are focussing on the same issue, but using different labels.

reply to post by DISRAELI


oops. I meant to say "Jesus always".
Correcting that now.

So the teaching of Jesus and Christian terminology are focussing on the same issue, but using different labels.

The thing is, the christian doctrine focusses on sin so much, that it ignores Jesus teachings about the kingdom of heaven and reduces Jesus into a sacrifical animal to be part of a sin obsessed belief system that is not rooted in Jesus words.

Throughout the bible, there are people who are considered righteous.... so the christian idea that every one is a sinner by birth has no validity.

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
...a sin obsessed belief system that is not rooted in Jesus words.

Why do you think Jesus opens his message with a call to "repent"- ie to get away from the state of "Sin"?
Why do you think he favours the Publican in the story, who admits his faults before God, acknowledging his sin, over the Pharisee who blinds himself to their existence and his own need?
The premise "Enter the kingdom of heaven" (Come to God) is simply a more positive way of stating the premise "leave the state of sin" (Give up the not-coming to God)

'start point'...Birth.

'end point'...Heaven, paradise, etc. etc. etc...

In between...The rules to attain the desired endpoint.

Not following the rules...sinning...

Sinning is a metaphor for not following the process designed for you to reach the endpoint.
Leave out some ingredients, cook them the wrong way...you don't get the product in the photo...

Didn't bake the cake right?...do it again, and again, and again...

The prophets were simply telling us how to 'bake a cake'...

The psychology behind attributing blame (i.e. sin)....a manipulative strategy of control...

God does not manipulate!
You are given as many lifetimes to 'bake the cake' as you want, or need...in the tradition of a truly loving Father to his children in a garden of true FREE WILL.

Akushla

reply to post by charles1952


I just had to give you that 2oooth star...

reply to post by DISRAELI



I never denied that Jesus ever spoke of sin. Jesus did not go on and on about "sin".

The point of this thread was to bring attention to how Christian doctrines revolve around the idea of "sin".... from "original sin" to Jesus becoming a "sin sacrifice" to people being saved by believing Jesus died for their "sins".

That sounds nothing like what Jesus taught.

reply to post by Lionhearte


Yep they sure are. They got you apparently. It's a scare tactic. If you don't then you burn in hell forever.

reply to post by DISRAELI


The problem with focusing on sin is it does not fix the problem. Focusing on sin is the opposite of what Jesus and Paul are teaching. To focus on sin is to focus on the law. Focusing on the law can not cause one to become free from sin. Yes we are to repent but we are to turn from sin. The only way to succeed is live by the new law of grace, focus on heaven and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you. As long as your focus is sin you are bound to live the law of Moses. If the law could have made man righteous we would not need grace and Jesus sacrifice would have been for nothing.

reply to post by sacgamer25

As you say, the issue of sin is to be dealt with, under the gospel, by grace rather than the works of the law, and I've got no quarrel with that statement.

However, I was understanding the original post as arguing that Christianity ought not to be regarding Sin as the central issue that needed to be dealt with, and that was the argument that I was trying to tackle.
My point is that Sin is the problem for which the Christian gospel of grace provides the solution.