Should the West begin a new crusade?

Or has it already began.

Reading most threads on the islamic terrorist problem it seems to me that the west is under attack on a global scale and the problem is its going to get worse.

Why not just go for it and attack and destroy all muslim powerbases before they can get to a level where MAD becomes an issue. After all they seem to think we are doing this just now anyway.

problems i see in the near future.

1. Iran - nuclear bomb programme.
2. Syria - Same as Iran and testing CW in sudan for what?

I believe these two countries are now in a three way power struggle for Iraq along with the Binnie Boys.(bin Laden)

I look at just now as the same type of situation during ww2 where the allies at the end of the German campaign along with German commanders considered taking out the USSR look at the problems that would have cured if they did, when they had the advantage.

Im not a racist but i believe the first major attack that takes place on western soil should begin this crusade. 9/11 was enough for me whats it going to take a nuke in washington or london? These guys operate from Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. As well as other places, so why shout down western governments who go on the offensive.

What we need is action not reaction. Its ok for muslims to be terrorists so fight fire with fire and on their doorsteps not ours.

What about an Inquisition?

"How we doin', any converts today?"
"Not a one, nay, nay, nay."
"We flattened their fingers, we branded their buns!
Nothing is working! Send in the nuns!"

Sorry pal, but this is stupid.

(a) "taking out" USSR? Accomplishing same as Hitler wanted? Shame on you. Unless you had the guts to lose millions in the invasion, that's not even debatable.

(b) As it is, the West is waging proxy wars for Israel. A large part of the radical Muslim movements are focusing on the Palestinian problem. Check the news. I personally don't want to start a crusade with all that it entails, for the benefit of the State of Israel. Screw them.


[edit on 15-9-2004 by Aelita]

Hitler was dead at the time this was put forward by a well known US general and was not even linked to the nazis just the normal german army.

And it was the start of the cold war. the problem being russia developed and caught up with the US hence MAD. With nukes on the allies side russia would have been easy meat. The similarity is the west is facing an enemy that would not blink at using nukes if they had them. Suicide bombers with normal explosives is one thing but strapped to a dirty bomb or small nuke is another. These guys have no morals so why should we. they will kill women, children, anyone in cold blood and say its in the name of allah And look forward to a great afterlife. Beslan for example?

Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod
Hitler was dead at the time this was put forward by a well known US general and was not even linked to the nazis just the normal german army.

"Normal german Army in May 1945, not linked to the Nazis"? Are you serious at all? I'd be laughing my arse off if it weren't tragic. I lost relatives in that war, fighting your "Normal Nazis" and no, I don't find this amuzing.

And it was the start of the cold war. the problem being russia developed and caught up with the US hence MAD. With nukes on the allies side russia would have been easy meat.

Let's see, that "easy meat" would include my parents who were about 5 years old at that time. Listen dude, if you salivate at the thought of BBQ'ing my parents in nuclear blast, go straight to hell. Dummkopf, as your Nazi friends would say.

I'm so glad the Russians developed the nukes just in the nick of time.
Duck and roll!





[edit on 15-9-2004 by Aelita]

Originally posted by Aelita

"Normal german Army in May 1945, not linked to the Nazis"? Are you serious at all? I'd be laughing my arse off if it weren't tragic. I lost relatives in that war, fighting your "Normal Nazis" and no, I don't find this amuzing.

For the last time, not all German Soldiers were Nazis. Heck, not even all the Feldmarschalls were Nazis. The regular Bundeswehr were just normal soldiers( albeit highly disciplined).

Secondly, Germany didn't have the capacity to have an effective army in 1945, let alone go up against the Soviets. In '45, they were an army of young boys and old men.

Lastly, I sometimes also feel that the West should really take care of business. I am also tired, as a Westener, of being taken advantage of. We take in the oppressed, hungry, and, unfortunately, the dregs of the world, only to have them turn on us, and use our generosity for wicked purposes.

this is not about what happened with russia during the war but what could happen with the future if you want to argue past politics start another thread. I never dreamed up the idea it is history. Im trying to say that the end of the world could happen if you allow a similar development of nuclear arms in the middle east as they are attempting to develop a nuclear arsenal just now. life is all about options luckily there was never a major nato / russia war but what would have happened if there was does not bare thinking about. Anyway the 'should' allows for other thoughts on the matter, flame away if you like. I can take it.

Fine. Let's start the following "crusade":

a) Instead of sinking $200B annually into Iraq, invest same amount
of money into alternative fuels. I have a feeling in 2 or 3 years, with
that amount of resource, you'll have electric, methanol and hydrogen cars everywhere and you'll starve the malfaisants of this world, without the oil money. The pollution problem would dissapear.

b) Strictly enforce drug interdiction in Afghanistan. It is known that after the fall of Taliban, the heroin production increased tenfold. Again the money flows into the hands of shady characters.

Originally posted by nathraq
I am also tired, as a Westener, of being taken advantage of. We take in the oppressed, hungry, and, unfortunately, the dregs of the world, only to have them turn on us, and use our generosity for wicked purposes.

omg!!!!!!!!!! We get it sooooooo hard in the west.. as 'Westerners'.. Im sooo tired of having to buy cheap foodstuffs from all over the wolrd and drink clean water and have accountable government and not being oppressed by political violent coercion. Im off to cambodia!

'you'll work harder with a gun at your back for a bowl of rice a day...'

Look at how we Funkmetal over the rest of the world as 'Westerners' before talk of crusades and being 'hard done by'.

Oh... no fresh asapargus in Tescos today... *sigh* sometimes its hard being a westerner... better get a chicken burger from round the corner from one of those dregs foreign devils!

Q

Its one option however what about freedom fighters in chechnya. I believe that cause has now been taken up by our fundamentalist friends. Bent on taking up another front. I would like to believe that its all about the money but feel that religion and politics are the main cause.

Originally posted by Munro_DreadGod
Or has it already began.

Reading most threads on the islamic terrorist problem it seems to me that the west is under attack on a global scale and the problem is its going to get worse.

A huge exageration. What attacks have "the west" had since 911 and Madrid? And Madrid was after we started retaliating.

We are under attack on their homelands. But thats understandable. So in 3 years nothing has happend, I'm certainly not worried about being attacked, because I wont be.

As for crusading..are you really serious? Invade all those countries? Kill millions of Muslims for what? You say you are not racist?

You have just suggested you think a genocide is what is needed.

I dont know what to say to be honest apart from, wow.

Kriz, I agree. Apart from apalling, this idea is also impractical.

Look how difficult it is to invade just one country, Iraq. It'll take decades to stabilize, if ever. Now add Syria and Iran to the mix, plus Indonesia (check out the population for me, please), and this is indeed ridiculous.

Actually what he is trying to say is eliminate the issue before it takes place. Weed out all the crazy muslim terrorist and destroy them all before they have the chance to do this too us. Hmmmmmm hey Mr. Bush.. You have more vote...

Originally posted by Qoelet

omg!!!!!!!!!! We get it sooooooo hard in the west.. as 'Westerners'.. Im sooo tired of having to buy cheap foodstuffs from all over the wolrd and drink clean water and have accountable government and not being oppressed by political violent coercion. Im off to cambodia!

'you'll work harder with a gun at your back for a bowl of rice a day...'

Look at how we Funkmetal over the rest of the world as 'Westerners' before talk of crusades and being 'hard done by'.

Oh... no fresh asapargus in Tescos today... *sigh* sometimes its hard being a westerner... better get a chicken burger from round the corner from one of those dregs foreign devils!

Q

That's not what I meant, and if I implied so, I apologize.

What i did mean is that we, in the West, take in millions of people a year. Most live lawful lives, and have very few run-ins with the law. Some, take advantage of us, and abuse our social sytems to their advantage. Still others come to us for deviant reasons; reasons that would have an instant death sentence in their home countries.

We are always bickering between ourselves, due to some cultural differences or political agendas. But the truth stands: the USA, Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Spain, the Scandanavian countries, Italy, the Benelux countries, Iceland and Portugal are hated among some member countries of the world. They hate us for who we are, what we have, and what we believe in. We are the economic giants of the world, but also the most charitable. We are the military giants of the world, but our countries co-exist in relative peace. We are the most advanced nations in the world, but we share our technology.

A Jihad has been called against a majority of Western Nations. I wouldn't go so far as to say we need a Crusade, but we definitely need to defend what is ours against those who wish to destroy it.

Sorry for being so un-PC. It's just how I feel.

Originally posted by Justmytype
Actually what he is trying to say is eliminate the issue before it takes place. Weed out all the crazy muslim terrorist and destroy them all before they have the chance to do this too us. Hmmmmmm hey Mr. Bush.. You have more vote...

If my memory serves me well, Bush went after wrong people and after the fact. That really helps, right.

So why are we spending a lot of money on security why are muslim activists being arrested. Plots are being made and carried out look at the news. Beslan, Australian embassy both recent. If these guys had bigger bombs they would use them. Please note i include russia in this. Yeh if you can take out the problem before it becomes a PROBLEM then go for it. They are organised they get funding, training bases, etc. waqke up and smell the roses I like buying my chicken burger as i have the freedom to do so. If its a choice us or them then im for us.

Originally posted by Aelita

Originally posted by Justmytype
Actually what he is trying to say is eliminate the issue before it takes place. Weed out all the crazy muslim terrorist and destroy them all before they have the chance to do this too us. Hmmmmmm hey Mr. Bush.. You have more vote...

If my memory serves me well, Bush went after wrong people and after the fact. That really helps, right.

Don't think he did i think he just took too long to do it and where did the chemical weapons go? Syria? Testing of CW's in sudan by syria mmmm coincidence. I wonder.

Thanks Munro..seriously

Yes Good ol GW is acting on behalf of all the strong hearted, Patriotic people here in the US that are not afraid to speak and say what is actually on thier mind. If you would like to join all those who cower to what is Politically correct than do so. I believe GW is trying his hardest to weed out all the bad and eliminate them. Now if you believe that this is a bad thing, dont cry when your family memebers are dead because of an act by a terrorist here on US soil. Just remeber you though it was politically correct to cower and say no, thats not nice, dont hurt them people, they are innocent, they have a right to live..... Well sorry. I think not, my child has a full life a head of her and if we have a President thats willing to exercize his big set of nads, then so be it.. I know we all will be safer.

Originally posted by nathraq


We are always bickering between ourselves, due to some cultural differences or political agendas. But the truth stands: the USA, Canada, the UK, France, Germany, Spain, the Scandanavian countries, Italy, the Benelux countries, Iceland and Portugal are hated among some member countries of the world. They hate us for who we are, what we have, and what we believe in. We are the economic giants of the world, but also the most charitable.

all the above mentioned nations cause much of the man-made economic problems for the devloping world. The charity given is buttons compared to the money made by flooding the world markets with cheap food from the industrialised nations modern (and heavily subisdised) agriculture... we force the price of food down all over the world and then take what we want, when we want it from whatever country we want... which has the added bonus of keeping them poor, and keeping people in work in our nice modern countries. This is just indicative of how the major players set the agenda for international trade.. keeping these crappy places crappy.. and making great environments for terror and fanaticism.

Do people in poorer muslim countries think 'well, my iman says kill americans.. but think of all that foreign aid?'. What they need is sweeping economic change to demonstrate any 'western benevolance'... not bombs and crappy trade agreements...

Originally posted by Justmytype
Just remeber you though it was politically correct to cower and say no, thats not nice, dont hurt them people, they are innocent, they have a right to live..... Well sorry. I think not, my child has a full life a head of her and if we have a President thats willing to exercize his big set of nads, then so be it.. I know we all will be safer.

(a) I'm not cowering and I'm not politically correct
(b) I like to be safe just like the guy down the street
(c) I think GWB made me less safe, and so he did your kid's life
(d) You are buying everything the govt says, that's a dangerous thing to do.

Capice?