WTH is wrong with these people??? Teacher accused of abusing 23 elementary age kids

As a Teacher I think the problem is that no university tests for psychopaths, sociopaths or narcissistic personalities. When I was at the end of my Teacher training (in Australia) I was asked to write a short paper on the term Mandatory Report.

A Mandatory Report is the procedure for reporting any type of Child Abuse - whether you see it or receive information that is suggestive of abuse - abuse of any type.

The university asks me to write the paper - it isn't marked and I do not get it back - when you do not write what the university needs to see - you do not become a Teacher - you do not pass your course. That is it. No other testing no other requirements. The only other action that the university takes as well as employers is a criminal background check. I think the paper I wrote was a form of legal protection for the university so they could not be blamed should I later commit a crime. I could never harm a Child - I would kill myself first.

So if you have honed your skills and are a pathological liar then - becoming a Teacher would be...well I do not want to even finish that sentence.

As for the Children - in my experience they are too afraid to tell because abusers will tell the Children all manner of things to keep them afraid. When you are afraid you are easy to control - same as religion - if you do not pray and give me money and worship me - you will go to evil ugly hot dark awful hell. Abusers do the same.

I have had disclosures and they came from Young Adults who had left school. Children are afraid and unsure. The only time I had a disclosure of a school age Child was from a group of friends concerned for a girl who attended another school. It took them weeks to speak with me - the group sat at the front of the class and I asked them to please pay attention and stop chattering - I did it with a smile because these were attentive students not at all rude. Sure enough the next week I found out - they had been chattering about how to tell me of their concerns.

Lucky I drum into my Students during sex education not to sit on a pregnancy. I tell the boys and I tell the girls to find an adult you trust if it is too hard to speak with your parents. I also drum into Students the importance of trusting your inner sense of knowing. I always start with - anyone ever done something and immediately knew I should not have done that? Hands go up all over the place - in an instant.

So I hope that in some small way I am helping them to listen to their own conscience and hope to God it helps them when no appropriate adult is around to help them.

Put them in jail and throw away the key. Child abuse is baggage that a lot of kids never conquer - some might - but I imagine most don't get to unpack the abuse.

Much Peace...to all abused Children everywhere...

...duplicate removed...

Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl12
reply to post by AQuestion

 

But Question, regardless of whether or not the kids understand, teachers should not touch, fondal or become sexually active with a child. As for the Mary Kay Letourneau case where she marries the kid later on, that's very rare.

edit on 31-1-2012 by Quetzalcoatl12 because: (no reason given)

Dear Quetzalcoatl,

Firstly, thank you for the teachers name, I blanked and couldn't remember it. As I said before, it is wrong for teacher to violate their trust and I even felt that way in graduate school. What I am saying is that we cannot have it both ways, we cannot tell kids in school that sex is okay and then hand them a condom and expect them not to use it if they get the chance. By the way, this is not about religion this is about having a societal rejection of underage sex and we no longer do. This has always been the argument by pedophiles. They say that sex is natural and that people used to get married at 12 and that it is just a normal thing to feel.

Children are impulsive and don't have complex morals, those come about by time and experience. If you tell children that underage sex is not bad then they will have underage sex. In California they are now going to begin teaching about sex in first grade. The argument has been that kids are going to have sex so we might as well teach them how to do it safely. Okay and you end up with kids having underage sex. You cannot separate belief from action, it is a result you can anticipate.

Ok if we can steer the conversation back towards the OP and not blame CHILDREN for being sexually assaulted that would be great

Originally posted by AQuestion

Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl12
reply to post by AQuestion

 

But Question, regardless of whether or not the kids understand, teachers should not touch, fondal or become sexually active with a child. As for the Mary Kay Letourneau case where she marries the kid later on, that's very rare.

edit on 31-1-2012 by Quetzalcoatl12 because: (no reason given)

Dear Quetzalcoatl,

Firstly, thank you for the teachers name, I blanked and couldn't remember it. As I said before, it is wrong for teacher to violate their trust and I even felt that way in graduate school. What I am saying is that we cannot have it both ways, we cannot tell kids in school that sex is okay and then hand them a condom and expect them not to use it if they get the chance. By the way, this is not about religion this is about having a societal rejection of underage sex and we no longer do. This has always been the argument by pedophiles. They say that sex is natural and that people used to get married at 12 and that it is just a normal thing to feel.

Children are impulsive and don't have complex morals, those come about by time and experience. If you tell children that underage sex is not bad then they will have underage sex. In California they are now going to begin teaching about sex in first grade. The argument has been that kids are going to have sex so we might as well teach them how to do it safely. Okay and you end up with kids having underage sex. You cannot separate belief from action, it is a result you can anticipate.

I see what your saying but I feel as if your blaming the child since the OP is about 23 elementary age kids being abused. So your going to teach them about sex what does that have to do with being RAPED!!

reply to post by Quetzalcoatl12


Dear Quetzalcoatl12,

I see what your saying but I feel as if your blaming the child since the OP is about 23 elementary age kids being abused. So your going to teach them about sex what does that have to do with being RAPED!!

You are being completely unfair to what I did say. Go back and read my posts and show me where I said it was right. Shame on you to try and misstate what I did say. You are OUTRAGED that these things happened, most of us are and you think that outrage addresses why it is happening more and more? Outrage and cameras will not make this go away. You think it is all by force, guess again because it is not and it is not limited to teachers.

Not long ago there were scandals in two different universities regarding teachers having sex with children. One of them occurred at Penn State? After the coach of the football team was fired for not having done anything about it, the students protested. What do you think they were thinking? Do you really think that they thought that underage sex was wrong or do you think they cared more about football? Do you think their beliefs don't effect how they live? Read the statistics on the number of kids who think that having sex as a minor is wrong.

Originally posted by Quetzalcoatl12
Ok if we can steer the conversation back towards the OP and not blame CHILDREN for being sexually assaulted that would be great

By the way, I never blamed the children, I said they were victims. Part of the OP was why the kids didn't report it and that answer is more complex.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Cameras in classrooms are creepy and teaches kids that they're always under watch in the states hands. Just don't really wanna go there..

But a lot of teachers that screw their students do it outside of school anyways....or would take them in the broom closet or un-camera filled area. Cameras don't stop any crimes, they just document them. Hence why people still rob corner stores.

reply to post by Quetzalcoatl12


Dear Quetzalcoalt12,

You have asked me many questions and accused of many beliefs. Let me ask you AQuestion. If two 16 year old kids have sex, should that be illegal? It is a simple question. If a 90 year old sleeps with a 16 year old, is your answer the same? Last question, is it the age difference or the age? If you do not answer those questions then you really don't care about these children and what laws we need in place to protect them.

I feel both sadness and anger when I hear about these stories.

These little children have their innocence torn from them by these viscous predators. They will be scared for life because of these traumatizing experiences.

California has the death penalty; I hope that this person ends up on death row for what he has done to these kids if found guilty.

Originally posted by Stryc9nine
i don't trust male elementary school teachers...

I'm a male elementary school teacher, and I find it an extremely rewarding position to have. At the same time, there are people like you that make people like me weary to have a position such as this. A male presence in an elementary school where some kids may not even have a positive male influence in their lives is needed. Sure, there aren't a whole lot of male elementary school teachers out there, but the ones that are out there are tarnished by pieces of **** like the monster in the article. People like you and people like him make me afraid to even get near the little ones, let alone comfort them if they need it, or to give a high five or a fist bump where it is warranted (I use fist bumps to avoid germs). The parents and their kids like having me in the school, and I've gotten nothing but praise for having the "courage" (their words not mine) to work with kids of an elementary age. It's not an easy job.

Now that that's out of the way:

The guy in the article deserves the worst punishment by law. Unfortunately, he will be shielded by the system and put into segregation where he will be housed with other child abusers and molesters. It makes me sick to my stomach. If it were left up to me, he'd be housed in the general population and "fed" to the wolves. There are some punishments worse than death.

My heart breaks for all the little ones affected by this piece of human fecal matter. I just hope that his actions don't leave any permanent scars on the children he abused.


-TS

Originally posted by AQuestion
reply to post by Quetzalcoatl12

 

Dear Quetzalcoalt12,

You have asked me many questions and accused of many beliefs. Let me ask you AQuestion. If two 16 year old kids have sex, should that be illegal? It is a simple question. If a 90 year old sleeps with a 16 year old, is your answer the same? Last question, is it the age difference or the age? If you do not answer those questions then you really don't care about these children and what laws we need in place to protect them.

What exactly does this have to do with this POS teacher? This wasn't two minors having consenting sex or two adults having sex or even an adult and a minor. This was a teacher, in a position of authority, sexaully abusing those in his care. These were 7-9 y/o kids!!! Your question is irrelevant to the discussion. This is about pedophiles placing themselves into positions of trust with our kids.

reply to post by GAOTU789


Dear GAOTU789,

What exactly does this have to do with this POS teacher? This wasn't two minors having consenting sex or two adults having sex or even an adult and a minor. This was a teacher, in a position of authority, sexaully abusing those in his care. These were 7-9 y/o kids!!! Your question is irrelevant to the discussion. This is about pedophiles placing themselves into positions of trust with our kids.

We all agree that it was wrong and want to see them brought to justice. I have consistently stated that. Once we get past that we have to find ways and laws that adequately address the issue and it doesn't just happen in schools. We also have to find ways to address the different reasons why kids do not report it and there is no one reason. As for the examples you gave, they have been arrested and will probably spend some very unpleasant time in prison, I think they have already been dealt with so we should be looking at the bigger issue of how we find the molesters in the future and teaching our kids to feel free and want to tell us that something wrong has happened to them is PART of the solution. I am sorry that you feel my questions are irrelevant to the discussion, you are the moderator so I will cease discussing on your thread. Peace. By the way, I was molested once as a child and did not report it and I felt bad about that for years.

reply to post by GAOTU789


Well i have one theory i know some of you ATS posters aren't going to like my theory i have been studying this pattern.
It all dates to back to the Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome as in Reincarnation well i could make a thread on this as long if ATS is fine with my theory.

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter


Please tell Agent.


-TS

reply to post by AQuestion


Well, I understand where you're coming from. Yes, trying to find a solution to a problem of this magnitude should be a priority. I don't know if we need more laws or better enforcement of the current ones. As they differ from region to region, it is hard to say. The age of consent and what age is the mark where you are no longer considered a minor differs as well.

My belief is better enforcement of current laws and stricter screening of people who are placed in a position of trust over our children. The vast majority of us don't have the skills or means to remove our kids from the public system so we are stuck with it. We have to do a better job checking the people that are with our kids for up to 8 hours a day for many years.

I know that kids are fearful to come forward with something like this but is that their fault or ours? Do we as parents have an open enough relationship with our kids that they shouldn't be afraid to tell us if something like this was happening. Is it a failure on our parts as parents?

And I am sorry you were abused. No one should ever have to go through an ordeal like that but unfortunately, they do.

reply to post by GAOTU789


People like this get into the system because people who are in control and supposed to be responsible with their power are either :

A.) Perverts also and they allow this because they themselves also partake in such horrible things.

B.) Are not qualified and not really that intelligent, yet that possess the credentials ( college degree ) so they are assumed to be qualified to hold thier position, yet abuse the power and don't take it seriously.

C.) Some people are very good at acting "normal" around others. These people are great at being fake and you would never know they are creepy perverts.

This is just sickening. It's amazing to me that this guy was able to get away with this for years without being caught. Makes me wonder how many of his colleagues or how many of the parents had a feeling something was wrong and chose not to say anything for fear of causing a stir. Right in his freaking classroom.

You gotta wonder what other crimes this perverted s.o.b. has gotten away with. The pictures he was taking ( cockroaches crawling across their faces and semen filled spoons) strike me as serial killer type framings. I really hope they dig into his past travel habits and such, I'd be real suprised if he doesn't have some unmarked graves under his belt.

Forget simply throwing him to the wolves, he needs to walk a plank over a shark tank or gator pit. If someones convicted of a crime this heinous where the proof is so completely overwhelming there needs to be an Ultimate Punishment on the books. I beg anyone to justify the state wasting money on this guys incarceration and "rehabilitation". I can't see how anyone could defend this guys right to pursue redemption, he treated these kids as refuse to be defiled at his whim, only right he is treated as such in return.

I used to go to a school that had cameras in the hallways ( back then more to catch students up to no good then teachers) and I see no problem in putting them in classroom. I see the point that another poster was making in regards to conditioning kids to living in a surveillance society, but until we have parents starting a classroom observation rotation amongst themselves it might be a good idea to have some kind of a confidential record. They can make surveillance cameras small enough to be discreet, why not utilize some of this technology to protect our kids.

The hyper-sexualization of children over the last few years has me scratching my head on a daily basis. My future wifey used to be involved in competitive dance so she watches this Dance Moms show. Its just like the pageant kids shows in that it has these kids dressed up in outfits that would have never even entered the realm of possibility to parents back in the day.

People need to start truly taking a stand on protecting their kids, because obviously nobody else is going to do it for them. If the criminal laws aren't protecting our kids maybe it's time to start letting natural law take its place. I would go on record right now stating would I would do if this happened to someone in my life but with the way society is breaking down there may come a point where I don't want a digital trail leading my way. Nuff Said

reply to post by GAOTU789


GAOTU,

I posted on another education related thread about better screening procedures for teachers who may "fail" in the first few years, and I said the same thing there that I'll say here:

There really isn't a perfect answer. We all go through background checks (State and Federal), fingerprinting, and child abuse checks before we are granted a license. Many of the traits that these monsters show don't even show up till way later, and don't even show up on a background check. Obviously we cannot scan someone's brain to see a potential of child abuse in the future, so to figure out a way to "screen" for potential abusers is nigh impossible.

With that being said, there does seem to be a pattern in child abuse: people with the power of authority: Priests, Teachers, "trusted" adult family members, etc. Some people just have a propensity for abuse that doesn't show up even on the most stringent of psychological screenings, especially if there is no prior record.

It really pisses me off that these few people that commit these crimes tarnish the reputations and records of thousands of others that would rather kill themselves before hurting a child (myself included). I just wish there was an easier way to figure out a solution, but like I said, there isn't.



-TS

reply to post by truthseeker1984


I know the process is impossible to make perfect but there has to be something we can do as a society to make these predators lives more difficult in getting into positions where they can prey on children. Stricter screening is just one thought.