What are best ways to educate a skeptic?

Since this thread is still going.....is everyone still not clear on what a skeptic is??? Because I see a LOT of confusion and misunderstanding. A lot!

To be clear...a skeptic does NOT mean disbeliever. Please say this over and over until it sinks in....

Although sure some skeptics are die hard non-believers.....but to be fair some believers are seriously blind and have their fingers in their ears saying "lalalalalala not listening".....

A skeptic requires a higher standard of proof and questions everything.....I have even seen believers that are actually skeptics because they are questioning the authenticity of something, yet they wont admit it....because some people have attached the word skeptic to a profane definition...

Next a skeptic analyzes things in order to find TRUTH. There are a lot of skeptics around here who are very very passionate about this subject and when something is presented they take their personal time to try and explain what is being seen. They may do some research. They may open photoshop. They may use some software to do some analysis. But the fact is.........they are SEEKING truth. I hardly ever if ever see the hard core blind believers put this much effort into analyzing something. I just dont see it happening.

Other than a desire to find TRUTH, do you know why skeptics question everything?????

Because of crap like this.......

This is the kind of crap over and over and over being presented...every single day around here. Scouring YT and just believing anything uploaded as something amazing....w/out spending a second analyzing it. That is where the skeptics come in w/ their questioning and analyzing to try and find TRUTH. To make sure that the crap is not getting in the way of actual unexplainable phenomenons.

So to summarize....

Skeptics are not bad. They are needed to weed out all the crap. They are not disbelievers (though some may be, overall not all are). They are seeking truth just like everyone else and are so sick of and concerned for all the phony baloney crap and misidentifications and absolute refusal by some to finally except that, that shiny light in the sky is simply Venus (for example)....

Skeptics do not need to be educated. In fact, it tends to be the skeptics that are doing the educating.....

Originally posted by watchdog8110
Skeptics PFFFFT .

When was the last time a skeptic corrected themselves and fixed a screw up they made that made ?
They like to be on the side of pointing fingers that it is not possible , some of them even prefer to be considered a skeptic for their own safety .

Considered what it would be like converting a NARCISSIST and there you have it . They can dish it out but cannot take it . In certain areas they couldn't tell the difference between sheep sht and choke cherries .

It sounds like you are also describing the "Blind Believer" -- i.e., the kind GEL is referring to in her post above...The kind who put there fingers in their ears and say "La la la...I can't hear you!" when good and valid non-alien explanations are given for a specific sighting.

It is true that there are certainly stubborn "pseudo-skeptics" out there who are staunch non-believers and can't be persuaded to abandon their pre-conceived notions that alien visitation CAN'T POSSIBLY be happening...

...However, there are probably just as many blind believers who can't be persuaded to abandon their pre-conceived notions that aliens are IN FACT visiting, therefore every UFO is an alien craft.

reply to post by greeneyedleo

they are SEEKING truth. I hardly ever if ever see the hard core blind believers put this much effort into analyzing something. I just dont see it happening.

Well said
Its like Ufological Yin and Yang , in every skeptic there's a bit of believer and in every believer there should be a bit of skeptic .
Blind believers and blind skeptics are both blinded to the truth .
For every .....I should stop now

Originally posted by gortex
Its like Ufological Yin and Yang , in every skeptic there's a bit of believer and in every believer there should be a bit of skeptic .
Blind believers and blind skeptics are both blinded to the truth

True.

As I have said before, good believers and good skeptics are one group of like-minded people.
Blind believers and blind skeptics are another group of like-minded people.

A blind believer has much more in common with the blind skeptic than they do with other believers.

Why wouldn't this thread be still ongoing ?

I'm reminded of the Teachers that read all the books to become a teacher , but when it came down to questions/answers that were not taught in the books they have no answer and quickly jump in to stifle the rest of the class . Proving the fact that they are not as smart/wise as they portrait themselves .

Like it has been alluded to here , a GOOD skeptic shouldn't just slam a door shut and be done with it . Move along nothing to see here ?

Having a scripted reply goes only so far when it is used over and over and over again . Believers and even those that experienced first hand , can see through the crap from the skeptics . Those that are serious about a subject to inform and not derail , do their best to get all info available to promote OPEN and HONEST discussion from others with the same view .

Some skeptics may need to come out of the CLOSET , it is okay . We ( BELIEVERS ) may not TRUST you from the beginning , but do try to understand we are SKEPTICAL of your motives . What goes around comes around right ?

Your not going to burn in hell ( all skeptics ) for giving it a SERIOUSLY closer inspection . Your hair won't fall out , your ankles may become weak and the waist line may bulge in places that didn't before . It is okay though we will still love you in the morning .

reply to post by greeneyedleo


Are they really seeking truth or the gear that clicks it all into place ?

Originally posted by watchdog8110
Why wouldn't this thread be still ongoing ?

I'm reminded of the Teachers that read all the books to become a teacher , but when it came down to questions/answers that were not taught in the books they have no answer and quickly jump in to stifle the rest of the class . Proving the fact that they are not as smart/wise as they portrait themselves .

Like it has been alluded to here , a GOOD skeptic shouldn't just slam a door shut and be done with it . Move along nothing to see here ?

Having a scripted reply goes only so far when it is used over and over and over again . Believers and even those that experienced first hand , can see through the crap from the skeptics . Those that are serious about a subject to inform and not derail , do their best to get all info available to promote OPEN and HONEST discussion from others with the same view .

Some skeptics may need to come out of the CLOSET , it is okay . We ( BELIEVERS ) may not TRUST you from the beginning , but do try to understand we are SKEPTICAL of your motives . What goes around comes around right ?

Your not going to burn in hell ( all skeptics ) for giving it a SERIOUSLY closer inspection . Your hair won't fall out , your ankles may become weak and the waist line may bulge in places that didn't before . It is okay though we will still love you in the morning .

What does it matter what one's motive is?
Can a "believer" not debunk a "skeptic"??

If a skeptic makes a presentation of why something is probably just (for example again) Venus, then why doesnt the believer debunk it? They dont even try. They usually just come back with "no way! i know what i saw and i know it is not Venus!!"

I am assuming....you are talking about the "one liner skeptics" the ones who post "HOAX!" and that is it. Because there is no way you are describing some of us skeptics who put thought and substance and more into why we believe something is explainable. Most of us actually work to present our opinion.

If my assumption is correct, than you are talking about the same kind of people who respond with "oooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh awesome its an alien flying around in a probe or its the mothership!" w/out giving any substance or thought or analysis!

As SIGP said above....they are truly one in the same.... and well, nobody takes those people seriously anyways. Plus they are violating T&C

Originally posted by watchdog8110
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

Are they really seeking truth or the gear that clicks it all into place ?

Are they really seeking truth or hoping so much that their capture is THE big "ah ha moment" so much so that all reason and logic and research and analysis gets thrown out the window?

It depends on WHO you are talking about. Because you are NOT talking about all skeptics. You are talking about a select few as described above.

Any kind of debate should to be based on mutual RESPECT from the start right ? Motives are important unless you are assuming it doesn't matter from the debaters ?

When someone holds a trump card of lets say shutting down a thread , how can a debate on a topic be on even ground if all parties play by the assumed T&C being implemented equally ?

reply to post by greeneyedleo

Agree with everything you posted and responding to bring attention to and highlight it for relevance.

Deserves a second read - perhaps then, the points will sink in...

reply to post by LadySkadi

I too agree
and the post you refer to should be re read for it to sink in.

Originally posted by watchdog8110
Any kind of debate should to be based on mutual RESPECT from the start right ? Motives are important unless you are assuming it doesn't matter from the debaters ?

When someone holds a trump card of lets say shutting down a thread , how can a debate on a topic be on even ground if all parties play by the assumed T&C being implemented equally ?

edit on 1-2-2012 by watchdog8110 because: (no reason given)

a thread gets shut down for T&C violation...not for one's opinion. threads dont get shut down w/out staff discussion.

it is fair game on proving or disproving something here....believers have just as much ability to prove something is not venus or something is not a plane, etc etc.....

however, often times someone gives such a good presentation of why something is NOT of alien origin or is not a ufo but an ifo (identified flying object) and it brings the thread to a close on its own accord.....

if someone posts a photo or video and i (or anyone else) opens up photoshop or uses stellarium or anything else to show why the object is identified......then debunk that! dont just get mad at us for using our brains and abilities to research and analyze....debunk it! show why a "skeptic" is wrong.

When something can be proven as not ever been seen before from the general public perspective openly from the scientific community . Meets no known scientific text evaluation of it and no research is openly done on it . Does it not make it an alien object ? One step at a time and not racing to one of the possible endings that fit to keep it quiet .

Since the masses have been conditioned to be looking for the Hollywood beings and craft , then that is what they are conditioned to be looking for and the rest is just bunk .

Who is getting mad ?

Although I would have to disagree with the term "skeptic" (may I suggest "someone in denial" as a replacement) , I would propose asking them why the government would be so secretive about something that is not real?

Originally posted by gortex
Some skeptics are already educated since they were once believers.

I was a believer when I was a little kid, a long, long time ago. Only after decades of personal research did I truly become familiar with the difference between good evidence and bad evidence (and no evidence). As a result of being exposed to so much lousy evidence, I've become skeptical of all evidence until it proves its worth to me.

So I think there's a difference between being skeptical of the evidence and skeptical of the possibility of the reality of the phenomenon. I will have no problem accepting the existence of extraterrestrial or inter-dimensional aliens, entities, etc., as long as the evidence to back them up is airtight. So far, however, I haven't found any of that kind of evidence. There's always been a deficiency.

Which I wonder could be evidence, in itself.

Originally posted by theshepherd2
Although I would have to disagree with the term "skeptic" (may I suggest "someone in denial" as a replacement) , I would propose asking them why the government would be so secretive about something that is not real?

edit on 1-2-2012 by theshepherd2 because: (no reason given)

It depends on which specific cases you say they are being secretive about.

Obviously the government isn't secretive about EVERY sighting. In fact, I'd say the bulk of the sightings talked about on ATS don't include any valid discussions at all about government secrecy. However, I can certainly see the government being secretive about a military program and/or classified craft, such as the alleged Aurora, and those kinds of things can create UFO sightings and UFO cases.

Originally posted by Blue Shift

Originally posted by gortex
Some skeptics are already educated since they were once believers.

I was a believer when I was a little kid, a long, long time ago. Only after decades of personal research did I truly become familiar with the difference between good evidence and bad evidence (and no evidence). As a result of being exposed to so much lousy evidence, I've become skeptical of all evidence until it proves its worth to me.

So I think there's a difference between being skeptical of the evidence and skeptical of the possibility of the reality of the phenomenon. I will have no problem accepting the existence of extraterrestrial or inter-dimensional aliens, entities, etc., as long as the evidence to back them up is airtight. So far, however, I haven't found any of that kind of evidence. There's always been a deficiency.

Which I wonder could be evidence, in itself.

I beleive things I have no hard evidence of ie that which I could produce to show another as proof of my beliefs. Yet I am a skeptic So if asked give my own thoughts on that particular subject.
Regarding Aliens - Yes I believe so - Regarding UFOs as Alien/s I remain unconvinced as there are other explanations for all I have seen and heard.

Originally posted by gortex
Its like Ufological Yin and Yang , in every skeptic there's a bit of believer and in every believer there should be a bit of skeptic .
Blind believers and blind skeptics are both blinded to the truth .
For every .....I should stop now

Looks like only moderators and some more known members get the applauses as that's exactly what I've been talking about on the previous page in my favorite color, and nailed it to make sure I paste it next times instead of wasting my time to post it over and over again. By neither denying all, nor believing all.

Skeptics are needed but sometimes they may be disinformers or wrongly debunking things that should't be debunked. That's the problem, that's why I dislike some like SkepticMagazine or any sites containing the 'word' skeptic because for them everything is a crap - this is where my anger was aiming at throughout my stay here.

There is nothing wrong in being more of a skeptic but being open for the things that could be true or believing more but also being skeptic in it. If that were the case, there wouldn't be this thread, maybe the OP was directing it at blind skeptics, so yes both Blind skeptics and Blind Believers are wrong.

I don't mind if someone is more skeptical than me, as long as he's open minded that there COULD be even other intelligent species as there is enough proof to be possible if not certain, just like I'm not believing all entirely and the more I use YouTube the more I ignore it.

As beling a little of a believer I don't hate or get angry by believers because honestly, they give me intersting things to read (which I do not believe), kind of like better than sci fi book. But blind skeptics are my enemy here!

Edit: I could be wrong sometimes as I do not have enough proof to claim e.,g Lazar is not entirely a liar, Schneider.. etc but, for example, there are silencers, people who tell you to shut up or else, such thing is a fact, so again open minded, for what remains uncertain.

reply to post by Imtor

post by Imtor
Looks like only moderators and some more known members get the applauses as that's exactly what I've been talking about on the previous page in my favorite color

Maybe its more to do with posting a large piece of text in your favorite colour than being a Mod or known member .
I can't speak for anyone else but reading that much text in colour hurts my eyes .
Just sayin

Originally posted by gortex
.
I can't speak for anyone else but reading that much text in colour hurts my eyes .
Just sayin

two clicks and less than two seconds fixes that. Just saying............haha...

my eyes cant handle it either, so quick work arounds keep me going....