The Conspiracy Against Lovers: The Real Truth They Don't Want You To Know

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
reply to post by Aeons

 

If one does truly have no interest in love, that is fair enough. I do wonder if that is not really true, since it is such a primal experience but all the same I would not force it upon someone who doesn't want it even if I could.

So you are safe from our manipulations galad.

Define love? But if there is to be manipulations, then count galad out. I mean sure it sounds like fun, but it also sounds like not fun.

Every interaction involves manipulation - It is an inevitable consequence of existence. I spent years trying to figure out how to never manipulate people, and finally concluded that I couldn't even manage to be dead and fullfill such a tall order.

I think you'd have to define love for yourself.

Am I really sure that when you eat an apple it tastes the same to you as me? I'm really not sure of that.

What I can say is that it isn't a lasting event that I've ever experienced in absense of another person. Even if that person isn't in-situ.

www.scientificamerican.com...

listed the effects of love as: Seeing partner's body as better than own. Sees partner as completing self. Focuses on partner; ignores others. Understands partner's intentions.

reply to post by Aeons


That is actually a good definition of love, Aeons.

Second.

The element of choice in relationships leaves the possibility of avoidance of pain an option.

Does the fear of pain and the urge to hedonism over-ride the instinct to find love?

Surely many societies have existed in which love is not primarly component of the pair-bond and the family-unit. So clearly the species can continue on just fine in the absence of love. It isn't a necessary instinct.

If it isn't necessary, then why is it so overwhelming?

Love is a drive towards individuation over societal imperative, while still retaining the aspects necessary for species continuation. Societal imperative overrides the necessity to love, either through societal structures which preclude its necessity, or apparently in providing so many choices that people choose none.

Humanity - we're such a fracking mystery.

www.sciencedirect.com...

Both types of attachment (maternal and romantic) activated regions specific to each, as well as overlapping regions in the brain's reward system that coincide with areas rich in oxytocin and vasopressin receptors. Both deactivated a common set of regions associated with negative emotions, social judgment and ‘mentalizing’, that is, the assessment of other people's intentions and emotions. We conclude that human attachment employs a push–pull mechanism that overcomes social distance by deactivating networks used for critical social assessment and negative emotions, while it bonds individuals through the involvement of the reward circuitry, explaining the power of love to motivate and exhilarate.

This is what people are avoiding, believe it or not.

Exhilaration and reward. The withdrawal symptoms must truly be horrifying.


www.sciencedirect.com...
cmb.duke.edu...

The early stages of romantic love seem to correlate as well with another substance, nerve growth factor, which has been found to be elevated in those who have recently fallen in love compared to those who are not in love or who have stable, long-lasting, relationships. Moreover, the concentration of nerve growth factor appears to correlate significantly with the intensity of romantic feelings.

Being in early stages of love makes your brain add new circuitry.

Fascinating. Being in early love decreases fear (more in link), but also induces increased neural circuitry.

If you suddenly increase your prefrontal cortex wiring because you are "in love," isn't that the opposite of what we are being told all the time by each other? That love is an "animal" instinct? It is an instinct to become more fully human.

How beautiful is humanity?

But not to be outdone, let us take this from another's perspective. This is what you actually hear all the time.

digitaljournal.com...

The unpalatable truth is that falling in love is, in some ways, indistinguishable from a severe pathology. Behavior changes are reminiscent of psychosis and, biochemically speaking, passionate love closely imitates substance abuse. Appearing in the BBC series Body Hits on December 4, 2002 Dr. John Marsden, the head of the British National Addiction Center, said that love is addictive, akin to coc aine and speed. Sex is a "booby trap", intended to bind the partners long enough to bond.

This natural drug creates an euphoric high and helps obscure the failings and shortcomings of the potential mate. Such oblivion - perceiving only the spouse's good sides while discarding her bad ones - is a pathology akin to the primitive psychological defense mechanism known as "splitting". Narcissists - patients suffering from the Narcissistic Personality Disorder - also Idealize romantic or intimate partners. A similar cognitive-emotional impairment is common in many mental health conditions

All the same study you see. But the one intended for a broader audience told you that you are an insane narcissistic obsessive compulsive split personality addict.

reply to post by intrepid

This is what happens when we listen to others and not to ourselves. Everyone is different and love, sex, commitment, etc. means different things to different people of both sexes. AND at different ages. Throw Cosmo and Maxim out the window and look into yourself. One doesn't need someone else to tell you what is right for you. In fact it keeps you from being the person that you are.

That's all very true.

As a teen and through my 20's, I was all about sex, not love. By my 30's, love was more important than sex. However, if something happened, and I was suddenly single, I'd probably be more about sex, at least for a time, I suppose. I suspect it's similar for women. Depends on many different factors.

Originally posted by Eidolon23

Originally posted by Aeons

The only times people are being encouraged to use their human wiring, and its to make money and reject intimacy. How sad is that?

s, and we are told that the choking sensation is what freedom feels like.

AMEN, thank you for putting that into words...I was struggling.

Gorgeous scene.

"And then I would eat it while she watches."

Ancient scripts played out in skyscrapers.

Originally posted by Eidolon23

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple


Talk to her. Listen to her.

I think this right here is the best solution we could possibly throw down.

We have to work on reorienting our communication so that it's focused on understanding rather than manipulating one another.

Thanks.

You paraphrased and spun an Einstein quote related to aspirations of achieving world peace. Bravo

reply to post by LilDudeissocool


Not intentionally.

I hadn't run across it until you mentioned it. Are you talking about this one?

"I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world."
Albert Einstein

Not playing coy, dude. Pure coincidence.

Or this one?

“When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity.”
― Albert Einstein

Or how about this? As long as we've swerved back on topic?

“Any man who can drive safely while kissing a pretty girl is simply not giving the kiss the attention it deserves.”
― Albert Einstein

This is my favorite:

“Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love.”
― Albert Einstein

That's something worth shouting in your sleep.

Originally posted by LilDudeissocool

Originally posted by Eidolon23

Originally posted by Taupin Desciple


Talk to her. Listen to her.

I think this right here is the best solution we could possibly throw down.

We have to work on reorienting our communication so that it's focused on understanding rather than manipulating one another.

Thanks.

You paraphrased and spun an Einstein quote related to aspirations of achieving world peace. Bravo

Ways to provoke societal upheaval and rebellion.

Cleave men of substance and strength from their natural societal modifiers - women and children. Continue to insert a sense of lack of control, that the world is without sense, that they are without hope. Find a good story and sell it, sell it, sell it - women are all whores with varying prices works nicely.

Give them a tiny taste of improvement then dash it against a bunch of rocks.

Now give them a place to interact, tell them that the world is out to get them. Give them an idea of an enemy, preferably one that will be easy to conquer and also give them back their natural societal modifiers. Making the enemy and the natural societal modifier the same thing would server very nicely in this function.

Shake, stir, serve.

reply to post by Aeons


Boom.

Ya been told.

Originally posted by Eidolon23

“Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love.”
― Albert Einstein

That's something worth shouting in your sleep.

edit on 25-2-2012 by Eidolon23 because: *yawn*

I think you've just found a good substitute for what atheists can yell during coitus. "Einstein! Oh EINSTEIN!"

Brilliant minds think alike. You are apparently in excellent company.

When will you two learn that there is no conspiracy against lovers. Maybe its time to face the facts that Ya'll crazy, and making stuff up. I would even say that maybe for some reason you just might get off it for some strange reasons.

Oh and just so you know gravity is responsible for everything even love, Eisenstein was wrong.

Hey. incidentally I have been looking into the seedier aspects of Tantric Buddhism. Mainly where the act is used to siphon off the female partner's life force, and redirect the power toward other ends. Nasty stuff, and couched in the most offensive supermarket lit language you can imagine. Really.

Anne Rice would blush.

Anyways. It struck me that even the best of the Tantric systems encourage one to view the partner as an object. A means to an end. What if the Troubadours met the Tantrics? Tantra is the Reichian science of sex, but devoid of Love. And the Troubs were short on sex.

What happens when you put all the sweetness back into the erotic? Something awesome, I'd be guessing.

Originally posted by Eidolon23
Hey. incidentally I have been looking into the seedier aspects of Tantric Buddhism. Mainly where the act is used to siphon off the female partner's life force, and redirect the power toward other ends.

Nasty stuff, and couched in the most offensive supermarket lit language you can imagine. Really.

Anne Rice would blush.

I had to stop reading that series part way into the second book. Who knew you could drag that out that way until a person actually became bored. That's a unique talent she's got.

Anyways. It struck me that even the best of the Tantric systems encourage one to view the partner as an object. A means to an end. What if the Troubadours met the Tantrics? Tantra is the Reichian science of sex, but devoid of Love. And the Troubs were short on sex.

What happens when you put all the sweetness back into the erotic? Something awesome, I'd be guessing.

edit on 25-2-2012 by Eidolon23 because: Unite. The. Fields.

There are religious thumping, sexual conventions, parades, books, unlimited amounts of online sex, advice on sex and relationships, parties, equipment and an amazing variety of contraptions....

But putting love into eroticism and like for your partner into sexuality? You Madam are talking the real TABOO!

Originally posted by galadofwarthethird
When will you two learn that there is no conspiracy against lovers. Maybe its time to face the facts that Ya'll crazy, and making stuff up. I would even say that maybe for some reason you just might get off it for some strange reasons.

Oh and just so you know gravity is responsible for everything even love, Eisenstein was wrong.

There is a physicist who is considered a bit of a rebel whose idea on gravity is that it is a quantum force and its function is to fix matter into a single state when there is a sufficient amount of it in one locale.

Seen as a force of bringing together sufficient mass into a single state so that it might exist in a functional way. You're brilliant galad You maybe correct. Gravity is Love.

reply to post by Aeons

Off course I am right but nobody would believe me because I don't have the credentials like Einstein had or the cool frizzy hair to back up my theory. There is even a song on it by enigma called exactly that. If its in song form then its probably true like.

But anyways Aeons, it has come to my attention that your very bird like now a days especially in your avatars it seems. This is like the second avatar were your dressed up like a bird, the first one from what I remember was all green and it looked like whoever it was supposed to represent killed some poor peacocks and made a dress out of them. Even stuffed one and wore it as a hat...Poor bird

And your current avatar is very eye catching and blindingly white as well, like a swan or more like a white owl. Whoever did the artwork for both is a pretty good artist. You know If I didn't know any better I would say that your peacocking Aeons! and on the internet of all places. But I know better then to say that, so you did not just hear that from me.

Just in case though who is the lucky victim guy, or is it a girl. I bet its a girl.

reply to post by galadofwarthethird


It's a sweet ass Old School Sci-Fi reference. Check it out:

Oops. Wiki substituted the the Hans C. A. for the original Joan Vinge entry. Odd. *shrug*

Her'es what I meant to link.

www.eyrie.org...

Also, I think Aeons has bigger fish to fry. No single individual need be concerned.

reply to post by Eidolon23


Never heard of or read the story.

Sounds interesting.

Does it have ninjas in it?

OK, OK, The story however does sound interesting, and very familiar, like I heard or read it before somewhere long lost in the fog of my memories.

Edit to add: Even the new link sounds familiar, Cool artwork either way. What is this Joan D. Vinge a favorite author of you all?

I don't get the fish quote, but whatever I'll take that as something that I wont get a clear cut answer for, kind of like this whole thread.