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ATS Community... Please help me with moral dilemma.

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posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 07:43 AM
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Please excuse me if this is fragmented and badly written I’ve been up for about 20 hours now and am getting tired. I’ll keep it short if possible, I started a salesman type job and the name of the company is called Cutco. So I’ve been busting my butt trying to be as best as I can be and I have been noticed for it, they say I’m “management material” and blah blah flattery boss stuff.

So anyway being a fellow ATSer’ you know our motto “deny ignorance” well I’ve been doing some research on my new employer and it turns out they have corporate propaganda around the web to promote their product. So of course I do not have “proof” of this and I know I shouldn’t believe everything I read on the internet, but I cannot in good conscience ignore the overwhelming amount of reviews and comments about how Cutco Cutlery is mediocre cutlery and outrageously overpriced.

I DIDN’T GET IN THIS FOR THAT, AND IF THAT’S ALL THERE IS I’VE BEEN WASTING MY MOTHEREFFING TIME.

With that being said you all know where I now stand, there are some positives to the company though an example being everything is made in the U.S.A. and all jobs are in the U.S.A. as well… But is that enough to overcome the apparent corruption? In my first 3 days of training they nearly forced me to harass my friends and family for demonstrations of their product. I’ve had a sales job before, I sold organic meat and cheese (boars head brand) and from what I understand they fed their animals grass and grains and let them roam free and didn’t kill them inhumanely.

Selling that product made me feel good because I knew that I was selling a product that was healthier for people and tasted better too, I can’t sell something I’m not passionate about and wouldn’t ever sell anyone anything that I wouldn’t buy myself. Sure the price for a pound of roast beef was 13 dollars and the cheaper “non-humane-bad-for-you-crap-brand” was 7 dollars but you get what you pay for right?

Anyway! Back to Cutco… They have a “forever guarantee" so generally wouldn’t that be better for struggling families looking for a decent set of cutlery? That “forever guarantee” means that they can take their knives into a local Cutco center to have it sharpened and polished for free which is awesome right? Is that “good”? I guess I am morally conflicted because 80 percent of the internet says that these knives are mediocre and overly priced I guess I can say I wouldn’t feel right if these people/families were being ripped off.

So to finalize this thread, what would you do? I obviously took this job thinking I’d make money and if I go with it I probably will IF I took advantage of unsuspecting consumers. But should I sacrifice dignity to pay the bills? It is a hard dilemma is it not? Should I just tough out this economic plight that inflicts me as of now? Or should I just sell the Darn knives and stop being a wuss? I know this isn’t a big deal I guess… But something inside me tells me that I shouldn’t do it I haven’t even sold anyone anything yet and I’m already torn between these choices. What if someone saved up all year for a knife set because they love to cook?

I don’t want to be the guy that “ripped you off” I can babble on all morning about the positives and negatives but I think I’d rather just get opinions from very opinionated people. I’ll be back to check on this thread over the weekend and will offer more information if needed when I have time, I’d have to say ATS community my employment is in your hands! I want YOU to make the right decision for me and if you think it is right tell me why. OR you can just not read this at all either way hope you guys have a great weekend.




posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 07:55 AM
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Moral Dillemas - Doug Anthony All Stars:


I don't know what i'd do in your situation, sorry mate.

edit on 28-1-2012 by daaskapital because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 07:56 AM
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Cheap is cheap, and in Cutlery terms, that generally means the knives won't hold an edge, but if your company provides life time sharpening, I don't see the concern. It's not like the products are failing and people are getting injured and/or killed (like exploding air tanks or something). I don't see the moral diliemma. You could bring this subject up with your boss. They may like to know what the people think, if they don't already. If they give you the "we're in it for the money, not the quality" speech, then you can always advance as high as you can then find a new job if it still bothers you. On the flip side, they may praise you for bringing it up. Who knows? They can't rightfully fire you for questioning quality control. Just my opinion.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 07:58 AM
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What you are describing is a classic sales technique employed by many firms.

The company hires entry level sales staff, encourages them through sales training to make their beginning sales to family and friends, who want to support you in your new adventure, then after you have exhausted your network of family and friends, you are let go and a new set of entry level sales staff is brought in, and the process is repeated.

Many car sales jobs are done in the very same manner.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 07:59 AM
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You need to calm down with the "corruption" paranoia. I understand that this is a conspiracy site, so your mind can wonder, but this is not one of those situations. When you work as a salesman, it's basically your job to stand behind your product, regardless of "poor" reviews. I'll be honest, I've had a set of Cutco knives in my family for the past 15 years, I send them to get sharpened once a year, they are the best knives that I've personally used.

Chill, actually USE your product, and make your own decision as to whether they are mediocre or not. As obviously, reviews are just other peoples opinions.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by VerityPhantom
 


Is this position wage/salary, or retainer/commission??

From what you've described, the training, networking through friends and family - it sounds very similar to SMC (Salad Master USA).

Do they also offer payment plans to customers of larger purchases??

Have they propositioned you to purchase??

Is it commission only??

Answer "yes" to any of the above and I think it may be a good time to part company.

All the best



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by VerityPhantom
 



80 percent of the internet says that these knives are mediocre and overly priced


But what do youthink of the product? I'm guessing you've handled them. Are they made decently? Are the blades flimsy and come out of the handles, bend or break with general use?

Just because my personal experience with product X makes me vow never to buy anything made by them ever again doesn't mean others haven't gotten a non-lemon item and feel it was money well spent.

Unless you feel you're forcing people to buy this product or knowingly tricking them into buying something that will fall apart in a month or endanger them, don't worry about it.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 08:12 AM
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reply to post by VerityPhantom
 


Cutco is in the high end of cutlery, I know, it's here in Australia. I personally would'nt buy it because I can't see how they can justify their prices even knowing they are handcrafted (?) in the USA.

However, the "moral" dliemma lays not with you. Does your firm use slave labour like that of Apple, Gap, Victoria's Secret etc etc? No.

If people are prepared to pay over a grand for cutlery, then they're stupid enough to buy it.

Learn the business, the trade etc. If you are a great sales person, get the managerial skills and branch out on your own.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 08:12 AM
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If this job put you in a moral dilemma, you should get out of sales.

If you want to survive in a sales job, your ethics will need to be just a bit 'slippery'. IMHO



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


Hi. I can't comment on the product because I don't pay attention to the cutlery scene. However, I do know something about company loyalty and if I were your boss I would not be impressed that you have now plastered their name unfavorably on the internet and with an accusation of corruption. I would advise you to edit you post and remove the company name. It's not important to the point of the story.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 08:21 AM
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reply to post by VerityPhantom
 



But should I sacrifice dignity to pay the bills? It is a hard dilemma is it not? Should I just tough out this economic plight that inflicts me as of now? Or should I just sell the Darn knives and stop being a wuss? I know this isn’t a big deal I guess… But something inside me tells me that I shouldn’t do it I haven’t even sold anyone anything yet and I’m already torn between these choices. What if someone saved up all year for a knife set because they love to cook?

Sacrificing dignity comes in lots of colors. If you are scrubbing toilets or putting bottle caps in a bin at a factor, when you feel it is degrading, that's not a bad thing to get bills paid. Hell, I took a job scraping trays in the Student Union cafeteria in college...
no big deal.
BUT, if doing so means taking advantage of others who are unsuspecting....that's something else entirely, IMO.
It is a big deal....if you feel it's a big deal. Sounds like you would see yourself as a snake-oil or used-car salesmen of the 1970s...if you KNOW the product is inferior, first of all you won't come across as sincere; and second of all you'll feel guilty about it, which will eat at your conscience.

Are they giving you a salary plus commission? Or only a commission? I could not do it, but I've been told before that one must just 'do what you have to do'....and I said, well, no, I don't have to do this if I feel it is wrong.

Go with your gut....you already answered your own question.

As for them schmoozing you as 'management material', yeah, that's the typical entry-level pep talk; then you find out as you move up, ever so slowly, or overhear things, or discover 'proprietary secrets' that the newbs don't get to see...and if you question the bosses.....um, yeah......bye bye.

In my experience, even if they say 'we have an open door policy! We want fresh eyes and new ideas!' LOL right. What a lie. They want you to come in and give them your gripes and new ideas so they can write them down, stuff them in your file, and then systematically get rid of you. My last job, after bringing up an ethics issue that was clearly cut and dried, I was told verbatim: "You don't have to agree with what corporate tells us to do, you just have to do it."

I left the job. And life went on.


EDIT TO ADD: Flag and star for your courage. Keep fighting the good fight!
edit on 28-1-2012 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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Back in the Triassic, when I was 17, I responded to a classifieds ad for a job.

Turned out, it was for Cutco.

It was yet another Amway style pyramid sales scheme. I walked away.

90% of the people that buy kitchen knives are going to get/already have a set from some convenient place like Walmart.

Discriminating elitists will spring for top of the line ceramic and other professional grade equipment.

From what I've seen, Cutco products are a marginal product where a big percentage of their business is suckering people into purchasing a set under the guise that they can make money as sales people.

You'd do better business selling guns, or cars, or get a realestate license to sell houses. Realestate license can also get you brisk business in the apartment locator field, all working from home over the phone/computer.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by VerityPhantom
 
Well you sure got it right about being a moral dilemma for your self ...I was confronted with a similar situation that took me a few years to leave my job ...as I look back now the good parts still look good but I no longer have the conflict inside of me,....peace at last ...I wouldn't go back now and I am OK with that ..Snake Oil is a product that comes to mind,in the end it will still be Snake oil no matter what many may claim or think ....There will always be a new salesman for a old or repackaged product promoted to be a new or better than the last ...all the best to you no matter what you decide as you have all the factors ...peace



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 09:18 AM
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I too asume, that a new a job; would be the best choice. However, my input may not be the best...
from what i can see in this thread... They might treat thier employees unfairly...
I know a thing or two about amway... my cousins works for amway, has spent months helping them sell thier products...
to this day, he has not recieved a dime in compensation... ( I feel very bad for him )

Anyways, if this cutco, is in any way like amway, dont trust them...
As a previous poster pointed out, it is also posible for them to make seasonal hires...

I would look for a more rewarding service I can offer to society...

but... if they pay, you enjoy what your doing, and there aint an infinite list of people 'you' have made sales too, whom are unsatisfied with thier purchases, then dont let us stop you...
A job is a job...
(p.s.)
boars head is a great company, my local grocery store carries that brand, and its just plain great...
( I didnt know it was organic... thats cool )



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 09:26 AM
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I understand your dilemna I worked at one company supposed to be fundraisers for the police and state troopers etc. and one time I checked them out (I took the job because I need it at the time) and found out that they're not really doing what they say for the police and state troopers as to the full extent of what there pitch said they did, also a couple of times in there computerized phone system I actually got a couple of former employees from the company! Anyway to make a long story short after I found out about the "skewered" facts I lost my enthusiasm for the job and didn't make it with quotas and eventually terminated, huge load off I didn' like being deceitful to people who thought they were helping a supposedly good cause the company also supposedly helped the paralyzed veterans.
I don't know about you but if you're questioning it it's a good sign that you are like me and don't like being used to make those in charge rich with deceitful tactics and shoddy services. So, good luck with your decision, but for me the "magic" was spoiled. A good salesperson nearly always can find a better position hope this helps.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 10:01 AM
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I hired someone from Cutco and she has been the best employee I've ever had! I'm in the south Seattle area (in case you are looking, and local, PM me)



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 12:44 PM
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reply to post by VerityPhantom
 

Hi chap. It's a tough one. I worked for BOA for 6 years & struggled with the same dilemma. I had to ask people for money that they didn't owe. Eventually, after 1 billion profit in 2nd quarter of 2008 wasn't enough after we worked like dogs, I left. I lost 25grand a year, am a single parent & I never looked back. My conscience is fine, I regret nothing, except NOT having the stones to walk away sooner. Money is a bad motive for doing something you feel is dishonest. ATB with making a decision you can live with. I have found when my conscience is good, everything else works out fine. I want what I have instead of wanting things I don't have, & am sure it's a key to being happy. Sincerely hope it works out for you.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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If it makes you feel any better, I paid $116 for a set of 5 Cutco knives and storage block for them, and they're still good. I bought them about 10 years ago, and I've never had to have them sharpened - which is good, I would have to mail them off somewhere.

A friend of my son's was selling them, so I was his first customer. I don't regret it. They're good knives. It would have cost me that much to get 5 knives anyways.

My biggest problem has been the longest serrated knife. I don't know if it's handle is weighted wrong, or what, but that knife has it in for me. I've had it fall and stick into the floor - I was trying to get it out of the weird wedged angle in the sink one day, it was very stuck, and it came flying out and stuck, standing in the floor.

I've slipped more with that knife than any other in my lifetime, and it's so sharp, I've cut myself numerous times. Only that knife. Never while cutting stuff, always only while the washing, handling, grabbing, dropping......



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