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Anti government does not mean anti country!

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posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 02:40 AM
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I was also on the other thread that was closed down, and just my luck it was the first thread I've commented since joining as a member, and by the time I had woken up the next day it was closed due to about 75% of comments being nothing but a tit-for-tat slanging match. I can't understand why admin had to close a thread rather than ban/cancel the accounts of those involved in the slanging match and clearly breaching the T & C. But I guess its the same as a under-performing football team...........its easier to sack the coach [thread], then sack the under-performing players [posters] !
But with that out of the way, I totally agree with the title of this thread. And for some reason it seemed anyone from outside of the United State's that commented that didn't agree with, or like, the path the United States Governemnt was taking, was instantly called 'anti-American', 'hater', 'jealous/envious' etc. Very similar to anyone questioning the Israeli/Zionist Government being instantly labelled 'anti-Semitic'. Not to mention many of the people commenting actually came from the United States and were also expressing their disgust at their Governments actions. How can anyone be labelled anti-[insert country/nation here], just for pointing out the corruption of their own, or another, Governments corrupt actions/policies ??? And how can someone be classed as a 'hater' [the new flavour of the month word on ATS] just because others seemed blinded by their own mis-interpretation of the word Patriotism, when TRUE Patriotism is standing up for what's best for your country/nation even if its against corrupt leaders of that country/nation ???
The sad part is, those that tend to throw around the 'hater' tag, seem to be the chest-beating, flag-waving people that have been so dumbed down by their own countries leaders and system, that they can't see that they're actually defending a blatant system of corruption, greed, and in some cases evil, if not even contributing to it !
I'm from Australia, I love the beauty of my country e.g. Landscapes, beaches, rainforrests, mountain ranges, etc, but I cannot stand what our current UN-ELECTED Prime Minister,and those before her, have done or are doing to this great land. So does that make me anti-Australian for having nothing but disgust at my corrupt Government ? And the only true peaceful protest I can make is to withdraw my taxes due to them being wasted on blatant corruption, and Politicail pay-rise after pay-rise for selling this country out. BUT, how do I withdraw my taxes, if I get taxed BEFORE i get my pay ???
But I suppose I don't have to worry about my taxes at the moment as I was made redundant 3 months ago so yet another Australian company can lay off its workers to please the shareholders of that company, while our UNELECTED Prime Minister sits back and lets it continue to happen as she's 'pissing in the pocket' of those very same companies laying people off to give the shareholders another 2 cents in the dollar !
That is NOT anti-Australian, that is a pissed off citizen seeing his beautiful country go down the drain !
Well thats my 2nd every post on this site, I can only hope it lasts a bit longer than the other one


And if anyone disagrees with what I wrote, I welcome your response and your right to have it, cheers !




posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 02:52 AM
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It is indeed a clever form of control that we have going on in America, at least where I live....the government doesn't have to lift a grubby finger when someone dissents from their view because the "herd" will take care of said dissenter themselves.

Reminds me a lot of the woman in the red dress scene from the matrix..."they are so hopelessly inert and dependent upon the system they will fight to protect it"



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 03:20 AM
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You must admit that the thread you're talking about, in fact, has a lot of genuine hate towards America and it's people. Can you not understand why some Americans would be over-defensive even if you were just expressing hate to the American government? Regardless, when you attack the American government you attack the American people. When you claim that our government is corrupt and evil and our "empire" is crumbling like you know something, you are calling us dumb, ignorant, naive, glutenous, and what ever other stereotypes apply. Now, I understand where these stereotypes come from. I'm disgusted with our pop-culture, irate about the food made available to us, and genuinely disturbed at the blatant shenanigans of our current political establishment and establishments of past, but honestly, all of us "western" nations are in the same boat. So stop hating on us oh, my brothers, grab your own oars, and row. Once you start making some good strokes then you can talk.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 04:00 AM
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Originally posted by Ariess
You must admit that the thread you're talking about, in fact, has a lot of genuine hate towards America and it's people. Can you not understand why some Americans would be over-defensive even if you were just expressing hate to the American government? Regardless, when you attack the American government you attack the American people. When you claim that our government is corrupt and evil and our "empire" is crumbling like you know something, you are calling us dumb, ignorant, naive, glutenous, and what ever other stereotypes apply. Now, I understand where these stereotypes come from. I'm disgusted with our pop-culture, irate about the food made available to us, and genuinely disturbed at the blatant shenanigans of our current political establishment and establishments of past, but honestly, all of us "western" nations are in the same boat. So stop hating on us oh, my brothers, grab your own oars, and row. Once you start making some good strokes then you can talk.



I agree there was some hate towards the United States people in the other thread, but the majority seemd to be directed at the US Government and their policies. Those directing the hate at the people, and those directing hate back in retaliation, where the ones breaching the T & C and should of been banned/cancelled. But calling a Government corrupt isnt calling all the people dumb, ignorant, naive, glutenous and other stereotypes. And in my opinon its no reason or basis for an over-reaction, and I agree that all western nations are the same. Thats what i meant by my own UNELECTED Government making all these corrupt decisions without any vote or say by the people. And taking our taxes before we even get our pay, and spending those taxes on those corrupt decisions and actions. Personally I'd expect people from other countries that can see this to say our Governemnt is corrupt, while having the intelligence to know its not really a reflection of all the people in this country, or treat it as an insult or get defensive. There where some credible reasons given for the outsider, and insiders, having such a dislike for the US Government. But even those reasons were shot down, mainly by those that seemed to be blinded by their definition of Patriotism and got so defensive just because their countries Governemnt was mentioned. And countries can't go around calling themselves World Super Powers and then shooting down anyone from outside that country that dares comment about that country. When counties class themselves as a World Super Power, that means other countriesin the world techniqually have a right to an opinion, just as long as its based on reason, results and done so in a civil manner, which is what we didnt get in amny cases on the other thread and why it was closed. !
Thanks for your response, and i respect your right to have it



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 04:54 AM
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People should not fear the government. The government should fear the people.

The true patriot is not the man who blindly defends a corrupt government. The true patriot is the man who defends the Constitution from that government.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 05:36 AM
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Originally posted by Ariess
You must admit that the thread you're talking about, in fact, has a lot of genuine hate towards America and it's people. Can you not understand why some Americans would be over-defensive even if you were just expressing hate to the American government? Regardless, when you attack the American government you attack the American people. When you claim that our government is corrupt and evil and our "empire" is crumbling like you know something, you are calling us dumb, ignorant, naive, glutenous, and what ever other stereotypes apply. Now, I understand where these stereotypes come from. I'm disgusted with our pop-culture, irate about the food made available to us, and genuinely disturbed at the blatant shenanigans of our current political establishment and establishments of past, but honestly, all of us "western" nations are in the same boat. So stop hating on us oh, my brothers, grab your own oars, and row. Once you start making some good strokes then you can talk.


Yes, there were people on that thread who were hating america, and i cant stand people like that. But i also cant stand people who call me american hater, just because i believe your government is wrong on many things. That has nothing to do with the american people.

I guess more attention is on America because they are the biggest super power, just like alot of attention is on china at the moment because they will be the next super power. I see the same kind of people hating China because of their government, and i have debated with them and won the arguments i have had on this board.

Like i said before. If someone came on here and started a thread on why they hate my government, chances are, i would agree with them. They are just people, not mini Gods who should have our respect.

I know there is alot of hate from people who choose to hate the people because they hate their government, but thats just a primitive way of thinking, and the kind of thinking our governments want.

I have been to many places around the world. I lived in China for two years, and i class china as my second home. I have seen many wonderful places, and met some wonderful people in my travels. My home is the planet, not the country.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 06:07 AM
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reply to post by Jay-morris
 


Don't feel bad. Not all of us in America find your sentiments towards our Government as ill towards our country. That is typical sovereign behavior by the majority though so in some cases it can be viewed as the same thing.

I personally do not hate my government. I simply sick of it. It has been hijacked and the corruption outweighs the good. I love my country and when the American people are actually awake at the steering wheel then the government does right by the people because the people hold the Government accountable. The problem is that the American people have become blind to it for the most part and those who have awaken to this disturbing situation are either fighting a fight that is slim in numbers or going about it all wrong.

Our foreign relations are horrible but so our our domestic relations. My government needs a complete cleansing. I like many citizens simply cannot imagine a proper way to do it without it turning into a civil war. I am not a proponent of violence but the government has become so out of hand that the American people who want change seem to think that is the only option left and it may just be that.

What you are seeing is a once beautiful Republic turned Empire falling to it's knees. That is heart breaking.

I gasp at some of the crap my fellow Americans say, think and believe as well as support. But I would still fight for my people and defend them to my dieing breath.

I take no ill feelings towards those who oppose my government. But you can clearly understand why so many would though.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 06:09 AM
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reply to post by Jay-morris
 




Anti government does not mean anti country!


Possibly!

Consider this. Democratic countries work off a basic principle of majority rules. Elections are supposed (stress supposed) to be a representation of the majority of people and they elect people who have the same basic way of thinking as them. Court rulings use jury's of typical people and judges are supposed (again stress supposed) take into consideration the view of the common man/woman in their decisions. Having said that these elected people and laws are supposed to be based of the thinking and representative of the majority. That then becomes that country whether you agree with it or not. Part of the culture that makes them.

So in theory it could be looked at being anti government is anti country.

However I personally am not prepare to label or OP that



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 06:17 AM
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The government is not a reflection of the people though when it is for sale to the highest bidders. It only represents the well connected and the elite that have the money to buy the government they want at the expense to everyone else. If people want everyone to be held accountable and responsible to the government they have, then everyone should have equality in voting where money does not enter into the equation. That is not what we have today.


Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Jay-morris
 
Like I wrote in "that" thread, being anti government but not anti country is disingenuous.

The government is a reflection of the people.

I don't like it.
I'm working to change it.

But that is (in my humble) the most pragmatic approach to take.




posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 07:57 AM
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reply to post by Jay-morris
 


I'm American, and I'll quote what I've been saying for the past 10 years, "I love my county, but hate the people ruining it".



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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Originally posted by mytheroy
reply to post by Jay-morris
 


I'm American, and I'll quote what I've been saying for the past 10 years, "I love my county, but hate the people ruining it".


Shame people around the world dont come to the same conclusion. The sad fact to all this, is i know the way i feel on how the world should be is at least 100 years off, or maybe more. People have told me im wasting my time thinking like this, but its got to start from somewhere, right? The more people we wake up, the more chance that something good might happen.

I have a 4 month old daughter. She laughs, she smiles, she watches the amazing children characters on tv, must seem like a wonderful world to her. She does not know the horrors that really happens in this world. I hope when she is older, the world is a better place. There is always hope.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by Jay-morris

Are people that brainwahed by their government?


Yes they are ....voting for Romney ,Newt is



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by xavi1000

Originally posted by Jay-morris

Are people that brainwahed by their government?


Yes they are ....voting for Romney ,Newt is


Thats another thing i have noticed. It seems that they are trying to control who votes for who. Ron paul seems to be getting shunned left, right and centre. This proves that the media are false and fake in my opinion. Even in the uk, you never hear about ron paul when they talk about the voting.

Im not saying he should win, i dont know enough to say that. But surely he should be given the chance. Just shows how the media is controlled.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by Jay-morris
 


I am an anarchist mate.
I don't beleive in government.
I beleive in people.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by Jay-morris
 


Link

Hillary made the same point however she quickly forgot about making this point when she bashed the Tea Party and called them basically a threat to the United States/Government...so much for balance



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 10:42 AM
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The same people who get butt hurt about other people bashing ther government are the same people who complain about there government behind closed door's to there friend's and family.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 05:56 PM
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Maybe we need a huge war, that will wipe out a good part
of the population. Maybe this is the only way that people
will realise that things have to change.

I remember i was having a debate with someone about war.
He said " big deal, we have had wars all the time throughout
history" But he was completly missing the point. We have weapons
now that could pretty much wipe out a country. Not like the old conflics.

So, its completly different now. Thats why people should wake up
and realise that the only people who want war are the governments.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by Jay-morris
 


It does seem like people have some trouble wrapping there head around this concept. I think a lot of people become facetious and just want to pick fight. In fact I'm sure that has to be thee case. When a government passes laws that make the people of the country it governs terrorists. What the hell are you supposed to do ?
I hate my government and it's the one the governs the country I live in. The United States of America. If people choose to be ignorant ? I don't let that bother me. Some one always wants to pick a fight.
edit on 22-1-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

edit on 22-1-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



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